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Released Neptunus Privateer

I just took a careful look at them in GMViewer, and while the Neptunus is only slightly longer and they are both about the same width, the Neptunus is much rounder so the hull stays wide much deeper.

This fully justifies her larger cargo capacity but still has me wondering about speed.
 
Going by her rigging and privateer design, as Armstrong said, it makes sense that she's faster in a straight line, I suppose.
I'm wondering though, surely if she's longer overall, wider lower down, and therefore has a lower centre of gravity, then it should be her turning circle that suffers?
Thinking about it, if there's a longer hull to lug around, then it will take longer to turn, and because there's a lot of that hull below the waterline, it becomes slower still.
 
Hi everyone,

The sloop of war you are comparing her to is the Brig from PotC right? That brig looks like it is based on the Russian Brig Mercury 1819 as I found some models on this website: http://www.shipmodel.ru/shipmodels.htm

Among the fine models on this site you may notice the 32 gun frigate Russia which bears a strong resemblance to one of the frigates in PotC too, even the PotBS Valiant (Ingermanland) is here as well.

The brig that is based on the Mercury should be larger than it is in game since its a larger vessel (stated as Length 96.7ft x Beam 31.5ft), it also apparently displaces over 400 tons while the Neptunus is 188.5 tons (moulded). I have also noticed that the corvette is too small as well, the Neptunus is 79ft 8inches between perpendiculars and 23ft extreme beam and the in game corvette is not much larger but has a lot of guns so it must be a model based on a larger ship possibly a frigate.

I have a couple of books by Howard Chapelle and in his book the Search for Speed Under Sail the Neptunus is to my surprise mentioned in it, even the original draught of her before Chapman altered it is present too. Here is a little of what is written:

The Neptunus displaced 188.5 tons (moulded). Her block coefficient was .42, midship coefficient .79 and her prismatic coefficient .55. The very low prismatic is due to her extraordinarily fine and long run, as well as to very easy buttock-bow lines forward, combined with a large immersed midsection.

Chapman states this vessel went 16knots. Varying estimates of the length of a nautical mile in 1720-30, however, made it probable that her real speed was about 13knots, modern measurement. Even so, her speed-length ratio would be abnormally high for a waterline length of 76ft 3in, since 13knots represents a ratio of about 1.49.

Now I don't claim to understand what all that means I just wanted to point out that the ship was an abnormally fast ship like the Peregrine galley for example, so maybe give her a decent speed and better than average handling (a little worse than a brig) since she is not a heavy or large ship. Also the rig I modeled on her is relatively modern with studding sail booms on the main and top mast yards as well as the gaff on the mainsail (gaffs appeared on frigates a lot later than they did on small ships).

The rudder is also another clue to a ships performance, as small rudders usually mean a fast vessel. Here is another example of a fast ship design:

http://americanhistory.si.edu/onthewater/collection/TR_318280.html
http://i980.photobucket.com/albums/ae282/jamesjn/Armed%20Schooner%20Berbice%201780/BerbiceRender01.png
http://i980.photobucket.com/albums/ae282/jamesjn/Armed%20Schooner%20Berbice%201780/BerbiceRender02.png
http://i980.photobucket.com/albums/ae282/jamesjn/Armed%20Schooner%20Berbice%201780/BerbiceRender03.png

Captain Hawks smuggler mod inspired me to model this as I wanted to replace the colonial schooner with a suitable ship (no offense to anyone I hope) I also have plans for a few more schooners, sloops and other small ships and will post about them once I have made more progress. ;)

Cargo capacity is difficult to specify though, she wouldn't compete against a hauler but since she is a Privateer her main purpose is to capture ships as undamaged as possible to maintain the prizes value and would need a large crew to man said prizes. With this in mind she would need to feed this crew and also carry other provisions and stores as well as carry her armament effectively.

For the stats in game I do like what Rider supplied with the ship but the stats should be adjusted as people sail her especially with regard to the crew, cargo capacity and turning.

Regards,
 
Yes, I based the Neptunus's stats on the ship rigged heavy brig. The brigs and corvettes are original ships, so it is no surprise that they are based on Russian designs. It is also no surprise that they are off a bit. :wp

Here are 2 shipyard screenies showing the Neptunus's stats in game. The first one is for sale and is clean. By a happy coincidence her stats are almost exactly what an average ship would be. Do they look ok to you?

The next screenie is the one I've been sailing. I also bought it in a shipyard and have given her a few upgrades. Note this one is bigger, heavier, and slower although the stays help her turn better.

Compared to the brig the Neptunus has the same speed, and a larger cargo bay, but doesn't turn quite as well.

Her cargo capacity is more than the English and European barks but a bit less than the Barque Longue, and less than the light fluyt and light pinnace. It's actually comparable to the frigates. So there ya go.
 
That is really quite interesting that you've been able to find ships looking like some of the stock game ones, SeaNorris!
I wonder if it's possible to find equivalents for the other stock game ships too; I've always wondered how historical they really are.
 
Holy crap! The frigate "Russia" really IS the stock frigate! Look at the bow and stern sections; almost exactly the same as Frigate1's texture. And the same rigging too!
The best part is... they gave a link to some drafts of the hull... so maybe I could upgrade this ship after all! :woot

Pieter Boelen said:
That is really quite interesting that you've been able to find ships looking like some of the stock game ones, SeaNorris!
I wonder if it's possible to find equivalents for the other stock game ships too; I've always wondered how historical they really are.
Click to expand...
Remember I said I found a ship which resembles Lineship5 recently? The Goto Predestinacia, also a Russian ship (surprise, surprise!).
There probably are more Russian ships out there which the developers used as references for their original ships, so all we need to do is find them...:keith
 
The COAS Sloop looks like the Royal Navy Sloop (single masted) Ferret/Shark 1711, apparently the Ferret had a second mast added sometime in its career, here is a plan of the Ferret: http://collections.nmm.ac.uk/collections/objects/84668.html

Howard Chapelle reconstructed a draught of the Ferret in the book Search for Speed Under Sail which has the transom and deck layout also drawn on the plan.

Also for dimensions of some of these Russian Ships check here: http://koti.mbnet.fi/felipe/Russia/russia.html

The Russia is in the Frigates section as Rossiya 1728.


Anyway back to the Neptunus,

I think she should be fairly faster than a Brig, not as good at handling as a Brig, have less cargo than a Brig and I would say carry a lighter armament than a Brig (shame the damage calculation in game couldn't be improved on to make small guns effective against small ships, like the Damage Reduction (DR) rating in PotBS for example.

Regards,
 
If you are ok with the Neptunus in POTC, then that means that our brigs are far smaller than they should be.

The dimensions of the Russia appear to be the same as our corvettes overall, and those ships are much larger than the Neptunus.
 
Nice job so far on that schooner seanorris! :onya she looks very sleek yet is still fairly ornate. hmm have you started many other ships? just wondering what types/ eras, no need for specifics if you want to wait on revealing them. I should really give all my ships threads so we dont end up each making a ship for the exact same role...
 
I have been testing the ship a little today and adjusted the following (original stats supplied by Rider88 on the left):

Speed Rate: 16.5 (left this alone)
Turn Rate: 60.0 ----> 55.0 (since the ship is light I thought this would okay could be reduced though).
Cargo Capacity: 1400 ----> 1000 (could be reduced further maybe).
Max Caliber: 16 ----> 8 (may need adjusting though)

Max Crew: 170 ----> 180 (boarding crew total, cannoneer crew total and sailor crew total added together equal this number)
Boarding Crew: 110 ----> 100 (a fairly large boarding crew as she is a privateer)
Gunner Crew: 20 ----> 5 (I assume this is the crew assigned per gun so a gun crew of 5 x 16 then divided by 2 would give the cannoner crew).
Cannoner Crew: 32 ----> 40 (see above)
Sailor Crew: 200 ----> 40 ( I assumed this means how many actual sailors maximum)

Maybe I am wrong with these numbers and someone who knows what they actually mean can correct me.

@Captain Armstrong, I have a few vessels under construction and will put a list up sometime within a few days to allow tracking of progress, my main priority at the moment is Phil's Indiaman as it needs finishing (I modeled the Berbice as a sort of break from it :cheeky ). It is an ambitious list I can tell you though as I have even ordered the book Modeling an Armed Virginia Sloop of 1768 by Clayton A. Feldman. The sloop looks like the Jamaica Sloop from PotBS and my plan is to also build it as a refitted pirate sloop but more on that when I get that far. xD:

Here is a website with a model of this sloop: http://modelboatyard.com/avs.html

Regards,
 
Just for clarity's sake, I think SeaNorris is posting the stats for CoAS, which may not work for PotC as the balancing of the ships in the two games could be pretty different.
Not sure about CoAS, but the PotC ship balancing was completely redone.
 
Yes. Trying to use those stats in POTC would result in an unrealistically fast ship that doesn't turn with so much crew and such huge guns that it would capsize.
 
Apologies for my lack of knowledge regarding the build mod stats as I never went beyond build 13 final.

I used COAS vessels like the Brig and Brigantine to base my adjustments off, I am sure you guys will give it realistic stats were it would fit in with the best balance as I was just providing some information to assist really. :)

In my game I modified the name to be Ostend Corvette since she was built at Ostend and is ship rigged with less than twenty guns (other potential names I may use instead could be Ostend Privateer and Ostend Ship Sloop).

Regards,


Hylie Pistoff said:
Yes. Trying to use those stats in POTC would result in an unrealistically fast ship that doesn't turn with so much crew and such huge guns that it would capsize.
Click to expand...
 
SeaNorris. said:
Apologies for my lack of knowledge regarding the build mod stats as I never went beyond build 13 final.
Click to expand...
You should do if you ever get the chance. We've been reaching previously unexplored levels of greatness. :cheeky
 
SeaNorris. said:
@Captain Armstrong, I have a few vessels under construction and will put a list up sometime within a few days to allow tracking of progress, my main priority at the moment is Phil's Indiaman as it needs finishing (I modeled the Berbice as a sort of break from it :cheeky ). It is an ambitious list I can tell you though as I have even ordered the book Modeling an Armed Virginia Sloop of 1768 by Clayton A. Feldman. The sloop looks like the Jamaica Sloop from PotBS and my plan is to also build it as a refitted pirate sloop but more on that when I get that far. xD:

Here is a website with a model of this sloop: http://modelboatyard.com/avs.html

Regards,
Click to expand...
Sounds good, that 8 gun sloop looks nice, and I havent started on a cutter or anything either, so thats good. The game could do with some more nice high detail small ships like these, they should definitely make the early levels more interesting and will be some really nice starter ships/smuggling ships/ pirate ships. and what a lot of research for a sloop! :shock Impressive. I am looking forward to that Indiaman too, she looks very well designed and modelled.
 
Pieter Boelen said:
At the moment, it appears she's set to be available equally to all nations. How about some nation coding again?
My suggestion:
Neptunus1 - Seems to have a similar colour scheme to the Boussole, so perhaps French.
Neptunus2 - The red colour could make her fit in with the Spanish ships.
Neptunus3 - There's some green on her stern, so she could be Dutch I suppose. For that purpose though, I'd prefer if the gray were replaced with my brown and gold like on the other Dutch ships we've got.

I do like the Neptunus1 skin the most though. Seems to me though that the FR_Boussole, Poseidon (PO_Poseidon) and Neptunus1 seem to have a similar colour scheme and in my mind therefore should all be French.
That doesn't make much sense for the Poseidon though, since there's already the FR_Fleuron with a different colour scheme. I could personally see the FR_Fleuron being used for the Spanish though, but I can understand if people disagree with that notion.
Click to expand...
So what shall we do for final?
Neptunus1 - Portugal
Neptunus2 - Spanish
Neptunus3 - Holland
If so, I'd definitely prefer if the Neptunus3's skin was tweaked a bit to swap the gray with wood so she'll be wooden with a bit of green at her stern; that'd definitely make her look more Dutch.
 
Hmm... I'm not too fond of using one specific skin for two nations; that makes it harder to recognize their nationality.

On the other hand, the reason we keep getting three skins for ships is because in AoP/CoAS, there can be three hull textures for one ship model.
However, there is 7 nations in total in the game if you count Pirate, so having each new ship model used by three nations, no more, no less, makes for some weird examples.
We could take each new model with her original texture, assign her to her correct nation and then later on expand the other nations' armadas based on what we feel they should have.
That would be a lot more work though.
 
Well, if all that was changed was the paint on the hull then only one new GM and texture would be needed per new ship added. Four textures were changed for each of the three original Neptunus colors. That adds complications.
 
It does, yes. In that respect, the stock game ships were quite nice. Two textures, one for the ship's hull and one for everything else and that's it.
The new models have LOTS of textures each. And while there's thankfully some re-using of textures, it's still not enough for them to not be a huge hit on modpack size...
 
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