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Awaiting Info Strange Collision Detection Between Ships at Sea

Stock game pinnace and galleon? How about simply the Galeon1 and Pinnace1? Would that be a good test case?

I still have all sorts of old alpha and beta released on my external HD.
 
Pinnace1 and galeon1 are different ships than pinnace2 and galeon2.

Oddly, in one battle I boarded galeon2 and the grinding came when the two ships were physically pressing against each other. With pinnace2 my ship could not get close enough to board without grinding.

It is going to take a lot of testing to figure these ships out.
 
For starters, what we need is a set of two ships that are messed up now and weren't before.
If we can find that, then at least we'll have a test case to work with so that perhaps we can figure out when this happened and why.
 
Hylie Pistof said:
Pinnace1 and galeon1 are different ships than pinnace2 and galeon2.

Oddly, in one battle I boarded galeon2 and the grinding came when the two ships were physically pressing against each other. With pinnace2 my ship could not get close enough to board without grinding.
Click to expand...
So... Pinnace2 is definitely messed up then? And Galleon2 is not?
How are Galleon2 and Pinnace1 together then? That should be pretty bad, no? Could that serve as our initial test case?
 
How about this: Get a ship with which you know you CAN approach regular non-bugged ships properly.
Then find a ship that you can NOT approach properly. That should tell us at least one single bugged ship.
In this case, would the Pinnace2 apply for example?

If you then take that ship as your companion and approach her, are you able to replicate the bug?
If we can replicate it with a certain two ships, then we'd finally have a test case to work from.

Otherwise I am not sure what we can do. :facepalm
 
In that case the only thing we can do is to wait for you or someone else to find a good test case to work from.
I'll mark this issue as "Awaiting Info" for now.
 
Since someone else mentioned a bad pinnace and I confirmed it is pinnace2, we can safely say it is bad. The next step is repairing it. Who would do that?

About the time frame, in beta 3.4 I am at level 26 and have captured 3 ships and sunk 5 ships. Some of those sunk ships were guarding treasure in treasure quests. Just to give you some idea of the time frame.
 
Attached are the Build 14 Beta 1 Full copies of the Pinnace2 model folder and the accompanying ships_init.c .
Somewhere between that release and Beta 2.1 this got updated. Perhaps returning it to Beta 1 state would set it back to normal again?
Since she's a stock game ship, surely she wasn't always bugged like that?
 

Attachments

  • Pinnace2.zip
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  • Ships_init.zip
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Two things.

I dug into my external drive and found a copy of the original POTC off the disks, and pinnace2 has ALWAYS been fracked. TOOL says "model could not be read". But someone created pinnace50 from it. I went into a build 13 install and it is called pinnace3-50 there, so someone before then managed to modify pinnace2 by adding more cannons to it and then repainting it.

Also, while at San Juan I found pinnace50 in the shipyard and bought and then went to the harbor. It appears to have proper collision detection as I sailed very close to it with no grinding. That is De Zeeroovers fast galleon I am sailing so it can be presumed to be good too.
tester 2015-01-28 14-58-41-17.jpg tester 2015-01-28 15-01-37-33.jpg tester 2015-01-28 15-02-03-12.jpg

While I was doing that a war galleon sailed into the harbor so I tested it too and it is good. But this type should be good as it can be read by TOOL. The only grinding occurred when it contacted the Postillionen and they were in physical contact.
tester 2015-01-28 15-05-31-15.jpg tester 2015-01-28 15-06-09-41.jpg tester 2015-01-28 15-06-18-81.jpg
It must be one of the Manila galleon variants that cleaned out harbors for me before
 
Now I am confused. I went back to the shipyard to berth the heavy pinnace and there was a pinnace for sale. So I bought it and it turned out to be pinnace2, the one I could not get close to before in a battle. Went into the harbor and got very close to it before we hit gently. Why is it good now but bad before?
tester 2015-01-28 16-34-55-43.jpg
 
You didn't put those Beta 1 files I posted in your game, right?
I don't think so, because I see extra details on the Pinnace2 and I think Beta 1 didn't have that.

Perhaps we should keep track of the ships that are around when you notice crazy bouncing off of them?
Compile.log would contain a list of the ships in the scene. You'd probably have to add a list of your own ships.
But then if the problem WAS with your own ship, would you not notice the problem ALL the time?

I did once notice something weird as well: Use console to give myself HMS_Dauntless,
with the rest of my fleet consisting of SHIP_CURSED (BlackPearl), QueenAnnesRevenge and CursedDutchman.
While doing a fort assault on Tortuga, the Queen Anne's Revenge ended up bouncing around the bay like absolute mad.
She was literally flying at what must have been well over 50 knots or something stupid. Then she sank due to the collision damage.
Uhm..... Wha!?!? o_O
 
The only thing done to the pinnace is what I did years ago, and that was rigging only because the hull GM is fracked. The same goes for the big galleons.

What you saw there is what happens when a small ship gets around big ships. It has happened to me lots of times. All of your ships have to be about the same size or else.

I got on a roll last nite and got 2 more galleons, the light Manila and the royal Manila and they are both fine. All that is left is the war galleon methinks. I wish I knew what the rules for collision detection are because I know I have seen these ships sinking other ships.
 
Hylie Pistof said:
The only thing done to the pinnace is what I did years ago, and that was rigging only because the hull GM is fracked. The same goes for the big galleons.
Click to expand...
Also Seb added the _deck.gm file with extra details. :yes

Hylie Pistof said:
I got on a roll last nite and got 2 more galleons, the light Manila and the royal Manila and they are both fine. All that is left is the war galleon methinks. I wish I knew what the rules for collision detection are because I know I have seen these ships sinking other ships.
Click to expand...
Another thing I've been wondering about is if this may be related to the realistic ship handling that we have now.
Snow White Sorrow massively increased the inertia values for all ships, especially the big and heavy ones.
This does make them behave much more naturally, but the game was never written with the intention for it to be used that way.
So I could imagine this having some weird effects.
 
Can't remember the exact version where it was introduced. "Build Info.txt" should tell us. Search for "Willemstad Builders' Trials" or something that that effect.
 
I remember in December 2009 when I first discovered this site that SWS was working on WBT all through Christmas, finished it, and then went ballistic and left.

So WBT was introduced in build 14 beta1 in January 2010.
 
Pieter Boelen said:
While doing a fort assault on Tortuga, the Queen Anne's Revenge ended up bouncing around the bay like absolute mad.
She was literally flying at what must have been well over 50 knots or something stupid. Then she sank due to the collision damage.
Click to expand...
Hmm. She is an odd shape, so I had a look at her bounding sphere information in TOOL and dug out the Maya file to help visualise what's going on.

Here's what the sphere looks like (in green) against the ship, with the exact positioning and scale:
QAR_BSP01.png


QAR_BSP02.png
As you can see, it appears to be in line with the extremities at the very front and rear of the model (i.e. the tip of the figurehead, and the cage arm on the stern).
It's also unusually high, with its centre at 6.859 on the Y axis. For comparison, Victory's bounding sphere has its centre at 4.19.

I imagine this would cause strange things if a really small ship got too close, and might start to get 'squashed' by the sphere as it curves downwards quite drastically before it reaches sea level.
All it would take is the QAR bobbing up and down and colliding with a small ship as it dips, effectively launching the two apart. This might explain what we're seeing in the game?

Of course, we don't even know exactly how this sphere is used in the game. Obviously it would be impossible for any two ships to get alongside each other if the whole width of the sphere were used for collision, so maybe it gets scaled inwards along the X-axis?
 
Pieter Boelen said:
Another thing I've been wondering about is if this may be related to the realistic ship handling that we have now.
Snow White Sorrow massively increased the inertia values for all ships, especially the big and heavy ones.
This does make them behave much more naturally, but the game was never written with the intention for it to be used that way.
So I could imagine this having some weird effects.
Click to expand...

That sounds indeed possible.. I play on arcade and I played a long time without this realistic ship inertia.. and had no collision problems.. and then when I enabled the realistic ship inertia, this collision thing appeared.. not to mention the AI, which was turning their ships like 800° before choosing a direction :D
 
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