Planned Feature Blueprints to unlock certain ships

[Levis]

So I was thinking about the shipyard. I can see how some normal ships are for sale in the shipyard depending on the nation etc. But I think some of the more special ship or the higher tier ships shouldn't be that easiely aviable. Escpecially the unique ships. I don't know for sure how much they are for sale excatly cause it has been a while since I played that far into the game so maybe someone can elaborate on that.
But I was thinking, wouldn't it be nice if you could for find blueprinte for a specific kind of ship which allows you to order the shipyard to make that kind of ship.
These could for example be hidden in treasure chests or given as reward in some quests etc.

Toughts?

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Sounds like a CoAS idea, doesn't it? I don't really think we need such a feature.

High tier ships may be available at the shipyard, but they won't be sold unless you have the required privateer rank.
That isn't easy to get, especially not for Tier 1 ships. So there's no need to limit them any further, I reckon.

Unique ships aren't sold at all. You can only get them through code or at Vanderdecken's shipyard.
So not easily available either. While it IS possible to easily get to Vanderdecken, his ships are expensive.

 

[Levis]

ok

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Just to be clear here: I don't object to the idea. If you want to add it, don't let me stop you. I have no right of veto here.
I'm just saying that based on what we already have in the game, I personally see no particular need for it.
Perhaps other members have something to say on the subject too, though....

 

[Levis]

Sounds for now its good. I might include something like this later to unlock some unique ships in the shipyard.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

There is potential for some fun stuff with this idea.

Actually.... might be a good way to lead to owning a steam frigate in the Revolutions time period....

 

[Grey Roger]

You can have a blueprint of a steamship in "Revolutions" if you want. But since a steam engine capable of powering a sea-going ship won't exist until "Napoleonic", it's still a sailing ship. The blueprint could, however, be a good way to take the steamship out of general circulation in "Napoleonic" and make it available to those who truly want it but don't want to free-play as Robert Fulton.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

You can have a blueprint of a steamship in "Revolutions" if you want. But since a steam engine capable of powering a sea-going ship won't exist until "Napoleonic", it's still a sailing ship. The blueprint could, however, be a good way to take the steamship out of general circulation in "Napoleonic" and make it available to those who truly want it but don't want to free-play as Robert Fulton.

And that is exacly why I suggested "Revolutions" and not "Napoleonic" there.
Since the steam frigates DO work really quite well, also for NPC ships, I would find it a tremendous loss to the game if we would disable that altogether just on grounds of historical accuracy.
We already threw them out of the "Revolutions" period now and further decreased their appearance in "Napoleonic" and removed them as a default promotion ship for American navy officers.

My suggestion was to give players a chance to DO get them one period early if they wish.
The player never existed in real history, so the steam frigates never appeared early.
But who is to say that if somebody (the player) had put pursued them earlier, history could not have been sped along so that you could have gotten one in Revolutions?

By the rate we're going, we might as well remove "Revolutions" altogether as it sees virtually no real use.
And with the steam frigates being pushed further and further out of the game, that is making them quite pointless as well.
Might as well rename "Revolutions" to "Napoleonic" and change the last period to "Age of Steam" just to actually make use of the good stuff we have!

 

[Grey Roger]

Might as well rename "Revolutions" to "Napoleonic" and change the last period to "Age of Steam" just to actually make use of the good stuff we have!

That actually could work. First I'll need to see if it's possible to edit "Periods.c" to have international relations conditional upon date, initially to model the changes in "Spanish Main". (Several different Anglo-Dutch wars, Dutch-Portuguese war and peace, end of Iberian Union and Portugal allied with England.) If that works then "Revolutions" could be extended to cover "Napoleonic", with similar conditions to handle the American Revolution, the period of peace, the War of 1812, as well as various wars of coalitions against France. And then indeed you get to use the last period for "Age of Steam", which would be an appropriate place both for the steam frigate and the fictitious but potentially amusing Nautilus submarine if that's ever implemented. The same period would also allow you to play with bigger guns. There are 68 pounders in "Cannons_init.c", which could be the correct armament for a genuine 1840's steam frigate such as HMS Birkenhead. Meanwhile on land, this is when those rifles with telescopic sights could be more realistically set - I'm not suggesting they be removed from quests or abbeys in the earlier periods in which they currently exist, but in this period they could also be available for sale.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

First I'll need to see if it's possible to edit "Periods.c" to have international relations conditional upon date, initially to model the changes in "Spanish Main". (Several different Anglo-Dutch wars, Dutch-Portuguese war and peace, end of Iberian Union and Portugal allied with England.) If that works then "Revolutions" could be extended to cover "Napoleonic", with similar conditions to handle the American Revolution, the period of peace, the War of 1812, as well as various wars of coalitions against France.

You can't do that within a period using Periods.c .
But since ONLY the Free Play storyline allows different years to be selected anyway, you can do it in the Free Play StartStoryline.c file.

The main (huge!) difference between Revolutions and Napoleonic is that in the first, France is still ruled by the kings and uses the Fleur-de-Lis as flag everywhere.
The tricolour only makes its appearance in Napoleonic.

Which also means that having Nelson in Revolutions may not make that much sense.
After all, that means that Nelson(!) of all people does NOT get to fight Napoleonic France.

 

[Grey Roger]

Oh well, worth a try. It was your idea in the first place to merge "Revolutions" and "Napoleonic" - I just hoped it might actually be possible.

Indeed, it would be "StartStoryline.c" which would need to account for all the changes in relations. Story storylines can set up their own relations as needed, as "Assassin" and "Bartolomeu" already do.

Nelson won't be fighting Napoleonic France anyway. He's already in "Revolutions" - his free-play model puts him in command of HMS Badger fighting rebellious Americans, not revolutionary French. But it would make a total mess of "Hornblower".

Is there a reason why a 7th period can't be defined? "Age of Steam" could still be worth doing if possible...

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Oh well, worth a try. It was your idea in the first place to merge "Revolutions" and "Napoleonic" - I just hoped it might actually be possible.

It's not IMpossible. Does need to be thought through properly though.

ONelson won't be fighting Napoleonic France anyway. He's already in "Revolutions" - his free-play model puts him in command of HMS Badger fighting rebellious Americans, not revolutionary French.

That's my point. When you play as Nelson, wouldn't you want to fight Napoleonic France?
And on that note, why can Jack Aubrey not be in Revolutions again? I recall the "Master & Commander" book pitting him against enemy Americans.

Is there a reason why a 7th period can't be defined? "Age of Steam" could still be worth doing if possible...

I do believe that is quite possible. Would take some doing, but I see no reason why it cannot be done.
If zero periods work in the original game and 6 work in our mod, we can add more too....

 

[Armada]

Might as well rename "Revolutions" to "Napoleonic" and change the last period to "Age of Steam" just to actually make use of the good stuff we have!

The title "Age of Steam" rather implies there will be more than one type of steamship present, so unless we can suddenly convert a few smaller and larger models into steamships, I think a period with that name would be a bit disappointing.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

The title "Age of Steam" rather implies there will be more than one type of steamship present, so unless we can suddenly convert a few smaller and larger models into steamships, I think a period with that name would be a bit disappointing.

Very true. I wasn't quite intending to do that anyway, as it would require a lot of work even without more steamships.
As interesting as that might be, I don't think

I'm just admittedly quite disappointed with how little use the steamships we do have get.
And they're getting pushed further and further out of the game. Quite a waste of a good feature.

 

[Grey Roger]

That's my point. When you play as Nelson, wouldn't you want to fight Napoleonic France?
And on that note, why can Jack Aubrey not be in Revolutions again? I recall the "Master & Commander" book pitting him against enemy Americans.

I've certainly no objection. But you were careful to give Nelson the same officers after promotions as he originally got at the start so as not to upset whoever made him a playable character in the first place, so you might not want to give Nelson a higher starting rank, larger ship and later date for similar reason.

"Napoleonic" Nelson would start in 1793, rank Post Captain, ship 3rd rate HMS Agamemnon. Though he supposedly gets a captain's uniform at the moment, the character has minrank 3 so perhaps make another version of him with a lower rank uniform, use that for the existing free-play start, then use the captain's uniform as the basis for the 1793 start.

As for Jack Aubrey, the book "Master and Commander" puts him in charge of HMS Sophie and in combat against the French and Spanish. "The Far Side of the World" is more similar to the film, in that he's up against a superior frigate in the Pacific, but in the book it's the American ship USS Norfolk, this being part of the War of 1812. So for this to be done properly, he'd still need to be in the "Napoleonic" period, but the cunning plan of having time-conditional relations in "StartStoryline.c" would need to happen - at the moment Britain and America are at peace by default in "Napoleonic".

 

[Armada]

I'm just admittedly quite disappointed with how little use the steamships we do have get.
And they're getting pushed further and further out of the game. Quite a waste of a good feature.

Perhaps what those ships need is a short quest in Revolutions which rewards the player with some steamship plans, as you suggested above.
The player could either take the plans to a shipyard and acquire a steam frigate (for a fee), or sell the plans (for a high price!) if they don't want the ship.

Indeed it wouldn't be historically accurate, but it would be a way to get the ships noticed. I'm not sure what else to suggest.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Perhaps what those ships need is a short quest in Revolutions which rewards the player with some steamship plans, as you suggested above.
The player could either take the plans to a shipyard and acquire a steam frigate (for a fee), or sell the plans (for a high price!) if they don't want the ship.

Indeed it wouldn't be historically accurate, but it would be a way to get the ships noticed. I'm not sure what else to suggest.

Yep, that's why I suggested it.
I was just trying to combine Levis' blueprints idea with my "not making the steamships disappear" idea.
Would certainly be less work than doing the period swap or adding a completely new period.

And as @Grey Roger pointed out, changing the Nelson/Aubrey starts also cannot quite be done because right now they are as @FlyingGhost set them up and I don't want to break that either.