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carriages ... ship guns

Discussion in 'Ship Modeling' started by Jan Marten, Nov 7, 2017.

  1. Jan Marten

    Jan Marten de ZeeRoovers Group Storm Modder

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    I am searching ...
    what color did have the carriages in the 17th century?

    Holland - red
    Spain -red

    What about other nations?
    Does anyone have information?
     
  2. Pieter Boelen

    Pieter Boelen (Not So) Old Seadog Staff Member Administrator Storm Modder Hearts of Oak Donator

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  3. Flannery

    Flannery Scallywag & Loiterer Staff Member Project Manager TOP CONTRIBUTOR Quest Writer Music and SFX News Gatherer Hearts of Oak Donator

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    I would not be 100% certain - but all other ships I have come over in the British navy from 17th and 18th century seems to have red as well.
    But dont take my word for it, I have not really dug deep into it.
     
  4. Jan Marten

    Jan Marten de ZeeRoovers Group Storm Modder

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    Thank you Flannery.
    I found today in historical documents ... the Spaniards have red.
     
  5. Jan Marten

    Jan Marten de ZeeRoovers Group Storm Modder

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    This is the first design ... a test
    ... new deck and gun textures
    Please opinions ...

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  6. Hylie Pistof

    Hylie Pistof Curmudgeon Staff Member QA Tester Storm Modder

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    Those look like nicely detailed gun carriages resting on a nicely detailed, well swabbed deck.
     
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  7. Wedori

    Wedori Mopar or no car TOP CONTRIBUTOR 3D Artist Creative Support Hearts of Oak Donator

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    Sorry for late reply. Charles Trollope mentioned that colors for the English ordnance was red too, until the "H.M.S." Sign were introduced. So the Victory of 1737 had red ones, the H.M.S. Victory of 1744 had yellow ones.
    They was red as same as the inner planks in reason of blood during fights. So far the I know.
     
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  8. LarryHookins

    LarryHookins Buccaneer Staff Member Storm Modder

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    The red paint on the insides of the ship wasn't to hide blood. It was that the ochre colored paint was the cheapest, from what I've read. If they wanted to hide blood, they needed to paint the decks red as that was where most of it would be.
     
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  9. Jan Marten

    Jan Marten de ZeeRoovers Group Storm Modder

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    @LarryHookins
    I think red is a signal color. That's why she was used.
    We have written to several museums. Soon we will know exactly.

    Sir Deane and I are going to revise the guns. First of all, we need better wood textures.
    It is a Chaos. Nonsense just nonsense. Clean up and create order with the guns.

    New ... Some examples
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2017 at 7:23 AM
  10. Wedori

    Wedori Mopar or no car TOP CONTRIBUTOR 3D Artist Creative Support Hearts of Oak Donator

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    I've read this in relationship with the Santissima Trinidad and remember they said "red was better of the blood". Ultimately it is not clear left in a source why the inner planks was red. The idea behind "blood" is for sure just a guess because the side planks wasnt primary affected and the deck planks abraded by daily sea-service and seamenship. For the carriages I have given Charles Trollopes opinion but for the inner planks I didnt remember any sentence in one of my books.
    Maybe the reason is different than we think. When a vessel had a fight in high waters, the lower decks havent any sight and aiming was just a thing of luck. Maybe the red color had a fuction of "clearing" the view better than other colors. Like green in hospitals operation rooms. It is just a small detail but yellow was the cheapest color and I swear the red one had another, deeper, sense.
     
  11. Pieter Boelen

    Pieter Boelen (Not So) Old Seadog Staff Member Administrator Storm Modder Hearts of Oak Donator

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    Maybe they just thought red looks cool?
    If so, I agree! :cheeky
     
  12. Wedori

    Wedori Mopar or no car TOP CONTRIBUTOR 3D Artist Creative Support Hearts of Oak Donator

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    Maybe you laugh but when I researched a local castle I noticed the ~red painted inner sandstone wall in a (one) old part of a lower battery in the casemates. I did not think anything of it. Until this question. Maybe the smoke and red paint results in a good contrast during reload, fire and aim. Pieter maybe you take your boat and a gun and give it a try :D ;)

    I learned one thing especially during my scentific researches: Every detail in those times had a sense. And I mean every small detail. You wont believe whats important when casting a gun. I visited the casting of a church's bell and I swear thats not unavailing to have a cast master.
     
  13. Jan Marten

    Jan Marten de ZeeRoovers Group Storm Modder

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    I think that looks better.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  14. Pieter Boelen

    Pieter Boelen (Not So) Old Seadog Staff Member Administrator Storm Modder Hearts of Oak Donator

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    Well, @Grey Roger did equip her with cannons before she was mine. So.... :rolleyes:
    [​IMG]
    :rofl

    I definitely like it! Regardless of accuracy, the red colour does add some nice artistic contrast. :onya
     
  15. Bava

    Bava Wannabe Shipwright QC Advisor 3D Artist Storm Modeller

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    Also: da red wunz go faster :p

    Red ochre certainly was one of the cheapest paints available. If I remember correctly, ochre also prevents the drying out of wood due to sunlight which may be why it was most commonly used for the inner bulwarks on the quarterdeck/forecastle and the upper deck (if the ship had a large, exposed waist). The sides of 'covered' decks were painted white (or white washed) or not painted at all in most navies.
     
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  16. Wedori

    Wedori Mopar or no car TOP CONTRIBUTOR 3D Artist Creative Support Hearts of Oak Donator

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    Bava is in the house, you've done the calculation without the Saxon yellow, called "Freiberger or Meißner Gelb", which was in the 17th and 18th century the cheapest color in my state. We cast iron guns for EIC, but deliver no carriages :D
    Thanks for your hints, you're the man ;)
    But by the way I wish I could test the contrast thing :D

    Do you know that I`ve solved the casting secret of Schalch withhelp of the Saxon gun founding bible by Friedrich Gustav von Rouvroy? I dont know the English word but Schalch used the "Krätzeisen" inside the base ring, so the most sensitive part of the gun. All other states hold the center pipe for the casting in the middle of the first reinforce. That was a nut :D
     
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  17. LarryHookins

    LarryHookins Buccaneer Staff Member Storm Modder

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    I really liked the light wood gun carriages from the post above.
     

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