High Priority Change way shared XP works

[Grey Roger]

If the officers-to-be-trained do participate in the fighting, they definitely get the XP for it. Right?
Or should the shore party, with Shared XP, get EXTRA fighting XP when other characters in the party gain it?
That might end up being a bit much....?

It won't "end up" being a bit much because that's how it used to be. My concern is that if officers don't get shares of XP then they will level up much more slowly, while you go up to level 10 in everything, thus making officers effectively redundant later in the game - who needs a gunner with Cannons 6, Accuracy 6 and half the gunnery perks, when you personally have Cannons 10, Accuracy 10 and all the gunnery perks? And if it's going to take a couple of years to raise an officer from Melee 1 to Melee 10, there's little point, which then ruins the game for me as I like watching the officers progress and earn skills.

 

[Levis]

Also in Fencing then?

Like I said I prefer not to make exception because also accuracy and defence are important for fencing.

It won't "end up" being a bit much because that's how it used to be. My concern is that if officers don't get shares of XP then they will level up much more slowly, while you go up to level 10 in everything, thus making officers effectively redundant later in the game - who needs a gunner with Cannons 6, Accuracy 6 and half the gunnery perks, when you personally have Cannons 10, Accuracy 10 and all the gunnery perks? And if it's going to take a couple of years to raise an officer from Melee 1 to Melee 10, there's little point, which then ruins the game for me as I like watching the officers progress and earn skills.

There is no percentage anymore now, so officers should gain XP faster in the skills they contribute. And when you have sharedXP also they should all gain all the XP now.
I'm actually afraid at the Moment it will go to fast and I might have to divide the Xp trough the amount of Players it is given too. But I would like to get some Feedback so please if you can try it a Little bit .

 

[Pieter Boelen]

It won't "end up" being a bit much because that's how it used to be.

Alright then. If I understand @Levis correctly, it is like that already now again.

Like I said I prefer not to make exception because also accuracy and defence are important for fencing.

Ok.

There is no percentage anymore now, so officers should gain XP faster in the skills they contribute. And when you have sharedXP also they should all gain all the XP now.

So in theory the system should be OK now, I think? Just need to find out from testing if it needs further rebelancing.

 

[Hylie Pistof]

This is all beta 5 talk, right?

 

[Pieter Boelen]

This is all beta 5 talk, right?

Not really; it is already in the game right now.

From what I understand, it is merely meant to avoid making officers useless because they're not gaining skills at all until you get Shared XP.
Nothing to fuss over; we just need to know how this works in the game now.

 

[Grey Roger]

Levelling for the player character seems to work. I haven't advanced far enough to see if it works well, but at least I am earning some XP.

The system still copies the stock game behaviour in which you need the "Shared Experience" perk for officers to get any share of your XP, rather than the build mod behaviour in which they get a small share if you don't have the perk and a larger share if you do. In the stock game, I'd get "Shared Experience" as soon as possible so as to start training officers right away. This is not now possible because you can't get it until you're level 10. Any chance of removing the restriction, or putting the system back to build mod mode in which officers get a reduced share of your XP until you get the perk?

 

[Pieter Boelen]

The system still copies the stock game behaviour in which you need the "Shared Experience" perk for officers to get any share of your XP

Which exact game version are you running now? The very latest version is the one I posted here: Notice - Build 14 Beta 4: To-Do List | Page 3 | PiratesAhoy!
Otherwise, this Levis Stuff version has the latest code in it as well: Mod Release - Levis' Stuff [Jan 30] | PiratesAhoy!
I don't know for sure if it does work right now in those versions, but I do know for sure that it doesn't in any earlier ones.

In the stock game, I'd get "Shared Experience" as soon as possible so as to start training officers right away. This is not now possible because you can't get it until you're level 10. Any chance of removing the restriction, or putting the system back to build mod mode in which officers get a reduced share of your XP until you get the perk?

We did listen to your comments on that which is specifically the reason for the recent rewrites on it.
Assuming it works as intended now, officers SHOULD gain XP even without the "Shared XP" ability, but ONLY for the skills that they contribute.
So a Navigator will gain Sailing experience, but not Defence.

Once you do get "Shared XP", then officers should start gaining XP in skills they don't contribute as well, which allows cross-training.
They also get the fencing XP from other characters then, so taking them into battle should help them learn to fight even if they don't actually make the blows themselves.
That is what I understood from @Levis' descriptions anyway.

In other words: This depends very much on whether your game version is-up-to-date.

 

[Grey Roger]

I was using the 18th January install, 24th January zip and 30th January Levis Stuff. I haven't had a chance yet to try your latest version.

Before I installed the 30th January Levis Stuff, levelling was seriously ruined - I earned nothing from sailing, for example. That, at least, has been fixed. But my officers still aren't getting any share of my "Melee" experience.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

I was using the 18th January install, 24th January zip and 30th January Levis Stuff. I haven't had a chance yet to try your latest version.

If you had the 30 Jan Levis Stuff, you should indeed already be up-to-date.
So then either you are looking for something that isn't meant to be happening OR what is meant to be happening still doesn't actually happen.

If you don't have Shared XP, do officers not gain XP even in their own fields?
If so, @Levis has some more investigating to do....

 

[Grey Roger]

If you don't have Shared XP, do officers not gain XP even in their own fields?
If so, @Levis has some more investigating to do....

I'm not sure. Remember, I'm working on my storyline, and need to restart often as a result of adding or fixing things (any time I define a new character or location, for example). The officers supplied in the story are type "ABORDAGE", "QMASTER" and "RANDCHAR". "RANDCHAR" is a fighter, his field is Melee and he certainly earns some XP in that - this is the Indian you release from prison, is immortal at that point, and given the chance will take the prison guards out single-handed and earn XP for doing so. The other two didn't seem to earn any Melee XP, either in the battle with the search party outside the prison or against random thugs and highwaymen outside the city, though battle is quick and I can't be certain whether either of them actually hit, let alone killed anyone. There's not much opportunity for trading so "QMASTER" never gets a chance to earn XP in his speciality (Commerce).

The Indian certainly didn't hit any thugs or highwaymen because at that point he's programmed to go off on his own toward the exit from the area which will lead you toward the prison camp, so he never joins in fights against these random enemies. And I don't think I took out all the thugs and highwaymen myself. So "ABORDAGE", whose speciality is also supposed to be Melee, may not be earning anything in his field. I certainly did score some kills and earn some Melee XP for myself, and nobody seemed to get a share of that.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

The other two didn't seem to earn any Melee XP, either in the battle with the search party outside the prison or against random thugs and highwaymen outside the city, though battle is quick and I can't be certain whether either of them actually hit, let alone killed anyone.

So if I understand you correctly, you think you noticed your "ABORDAGE" and "QMASTER" not gaining Fencing skill without Shared XP?

Can you keep an eye on that for the other skills as well? Now that @Levis did his rewrites, indeed it is time to be critical to check if it indeed does what we think it does.
And if not, it needs to be fixed further.

 

[Levis]

So if I understand you correctly, you think you noticed your "ABORDAGE" and "QMASTER" not gaining Fencing skill without Shared XP?

Can you keep an eye on that for the other skills as well? Now that @Levis did his rewrites, indeed it is time to be critical to check if it indeed does what we think it does.
And if not, it needs to be fixed further.

Randchar is contributing Fencing (just noticed this also XD) as a skill so they would indeed gain XP even without sharedXP. They should also gain a bit in Accuracy.
So I think this opens up things even more. If you want to train a character in melee you just need to remove him from a post. This would make him randchar I believe (but please check that for me).
You can now get them to progress in melee if you bring them ashore.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Randchar is contributing Fencing (just noticed this also XD) as a skill so they would indeed gain XP even without sharedXP. They should also gain a bit in Accuracy.
So I think this opens up things even more. If you want to train a character in melee you just need to remove him from a post. This would make him randchar I believe (but please check that for me).
You can now get them to progress in melee if you bring them ashore.

On the one hand, it IS nice that "removing officers from their post" actually serves a purpose of some kind.

But if an officer who DOES have a post is engaged in fencing ashore, that officer should still gain his own fencing XP regardless of his skill contributions.

 

[Grey Roger]

Randchar is contributing Fencing (just noticed this also XD) as a skill so they would indeed gain XP even without sharedXP. They should also gain a bit in Accuracy.
So I think this opens up things even more. If you want to train a character in melee you just need to remove him from a post. This would make him randchar I believe (but please check that for me).
You can now get them to progress in melee if you bring them ashore.

It doesn't open things up, it means you have to micro-manage your officers. When you come ashore, you have to remove your companion officers from their posts so they can learn to fight. Then you go into the store and have to put your quartermaster back to his post so he can assist with, and gain XP from, your trading. Then you have to remove him from his post again so he can gain fighting XP if you get mugged in the street.

On the one hand, it IS nice that "removing officers from their post" actually serves a purpose of some kind.

The only "purpose" that removing officers from their posts should serve is that since they no longer have a role on your ship, they should get less salary or smaller share of plunder (depending on how you're paying your crew).

But if an officer who DOES have a post is engaged in fencing ashore, that officer should still gain his own fencing XP regardless of his skill contributions.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

It doesn't open things up, it means you have to micro-manage your officers. When you come ashore, you have to remove your companion officers from their posts so they can learn to fight. Then you go into the store and have to put your quartermaster back to his post so he can assist with, and gain XP from, your trading. Then you have to remove him from his post again so he can gain fighting XP if you get mugged in the street.

I was thinking purely of the "Shared XP" behaviour where such a "removed from post" officer would join in the XP gained by the OTHER characters fighting ashore.
So even if that officer wouldn't be doing the fighting himself, because you defend him, he'd still gain the XP.

For a regular "Navigator" without Shared XP factoring in, he should gain Fencing XP only for the actual hits that he himself makes to enemies.
But if he would be a "Fighter" (eg. "no post") OR if Shared XP is involved, he could gain Fencing XP also when the player or the other officers gain it.

Would that sound about right?

 

[Grey Roger]

No, for the reason I gave. It means if I bring my navigator ashore, I have to remove him from his post so he gets shared XP. Then I have to put him back in his post just before boarding again so he can do his job.

Basically, if I've brought my navigator along with me on shore, it's because I want to train him. Since he probably can't fight as well as me or the fighting specialist officers, he won't be earning much XP himself; I'll be doing most of the killing and keeping an eye on him to make sure he doesn't get into trouble. So the only reason he's there is so I can share Melee XP with him.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

No, for the reason I gave. It means if I bring my navigator ashore, I have to remove him from his post so he gets shared XP. Then I have to put him back in his post just before boarding again so he can do his job.

But WHY would he get Shared XP in fights ashore if the Shared XP perk isn't actually active?
If that would be active by default for fencing, doesn't that completely defeat (part of) the purpose of that perk existing in the first place?

 

[Grey Roger]

The way it's worked in the Build Mod until recently is that he'd get some shared XP anyway, and get more if you have the "Shared Experience" perk. The way it worked in the stock game was that he got nothing until you had "Shared Experience", but there was no restriction on which perks you could take when, so "Shared Experience" was usually the first one I took.

Anyway, I'm not objecting to officers not getting shared XP in other skills until you have the perk. Or having them only get shared XP in skills associated with their position until you get the perk. Melee is different, it doesn't just allow him to do his assigned job better, it's what keeps him alive if you encounter the many highwaymen and thugs. So that has to be shared right from the start, either because you can get the perk right away or because it's the one skill that doesn't require the perk for it to be shared.

One possibility might be to have XP shared only in skills associated with the officer's position until you have "Shared Experience", then you share XP in all skills. And, as at present, "Shared Experience" is restricted to level 10 or higher. But Melee should be associated with all officer positions, so it's always shared.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

It sounds to me like we have several options of handling this:

1. Without Shared XP, officers get ONLY their own fencing XP and none extra.
With Shared XP they also get fencing XP when they are in the shore party and other officers gain fencing XP.
ALTERNATE: Have this not limited to "only when they're in the shore party".

2. Same as above, but because fighter "contributes" fencing, this type DOES gain "Shared XP" for fencing IF he's in the shore party(???). (Current situation, I think?)
ADVANTAGE: There is a way of "training" your officers in fencing even if you don't have Shared XP yet.
DISADVANTAGE: To do this, you have to remove them from their post. Which indeed encourages pointless micromanaging.

3. Same as above, but have officers IN THE SHORE PARTY gain "Shared XP" regardless of their officer type and without that ability actually being active.
So basically the same as "fighter" officer type, but without having to change them to remove them from their post.
To make Shared XP not pointless here, I imagine that WITH Shared XP, even officers still on the ship would get fencing XP as well when the shore party fights.

Did I get that right?

#3 may indeed work out. As shared XP is then ALWAYS active for fencing within your shore party,
if the player has any officers with him, the player would also gain fencing skill faster than when he would be alone.

Anyone got any thoughts? @Levis...?

 

[Levis]

I don't get number 3 ... you want to just give all xp to everyone on land?
What about boarding ... should it work then too

Also if we do this probably officers will just level to fast ... I mean its all nice and so if all your officers are good fighters but a level 6 navigator probably shouldn't be a good fighter. He spend his time learning how to read charts etc. if you want him to fight for you he should be helped first.

Also we are basing our finding now on just 1 person. I prefer to actually hear from others also. if not I prefer to keep this for the public release first and see how it pans out. the more exceptions etc are made to the system the harder it is to explain to the player.