Poll Checking on Common Frame of Reference: Familiarity with Storm-Engine Games

[Pieter Boelen]

While of course Hearts of Oak is going to be its own game,
most of the people who originally set up the project have done so because the old Storm-Engine based games cannot offer us the freedom that we want.
This means that a lot of the ideas we have are based on what the Storm Engine can/cannot do and the type of features we added to the relevant modpacks over the years.

However, we now have a lot of people involved in Hearts of Oak who were never here when our Storm-Engine modding was truly active.
That means those people might have quite a different frame of reference.

For myself at least, it is always easier to simply refer to the Storm Engine games as examples instead of explaining everything from scratch.
So just out of curiosity, I would like to know how familiar everybody involved in HoO development is with these games.
You can make multiple selections and your votes will be publicly visible (because that is the whole point ).

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Focus is on familiarity with the 2003 Pirates of the Caribbean game, because that has been the most heavily modded.
Additionally, it is closest in available features to what we are hoping to accomplish with Hearts of Oak.

This question isn't massively important, but it would help me to know for which HoO members I can use PotC comparisons and for whom I can't.
So please do vote, even if you are completely unfamiliar with any of these games.

 

[Hylie Pistof]

This is a good poll as I have never played the games that others are constantly referring to, so can make no comments.

I would also like to see a poll about what games those who have never played POTC have played.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

I would also like to see a poll about what games those who have never played POTC have played.

Would definitely be interesting to see as well.
Though there would be an infinity of games, so we'd have to come up with some sort of reasonable list for that.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Since this question was prompted by our discussions related to Quest Writing, I started on making some sample flow-charts based on the way the storylines and quests are set up in PotC: New Horizons.
See here the results, including some comments on the good/bad aspects of each one and how we may be able to learn from this for Hearts of Oak.

Story Line Availability

Free Play:
Applies to Devlin Opera, Jack Aubrey, Jean Lafitte and Jean de la Croix.
Some of these may have a scripted opening, but none of these contains much in terms of real main quest content.

Spoiler

For Hearts of Oak, ideally the Random Quests and Regular Play should be less "generic" so that they feel more like real stories and less like boring, repeated missions.
This would require more types, as well as scripted "story events" that can occur during them. But random = complicated, so long-term goal.

Having more Pre-Written Side Quests available would help in this respect as well.


Standard Storyline:

Spoiler

This is a near-perfect example of allowing Free Play and having a story available.

Only disadvantage is that there is only one Main Quest available. It does occasionally allow multiple solutions to a problem, but is ultimately quite linear.
We should aim to do better for Hearts of Oak!


Jack Sparrow:

Spoiler

This is probably the most cleverly mapped-out Storyline that PotC: New Horizons has to offer.
While it does lock the starting character, it provides both Free Play and a Main Quest. And Free Play is enforced at one point as well.

There are a couple of cutscenes with Mr. Gibbs actually "telling" this story.
Since he likes "tall tales", that explains why the actual story does not always follow the "official" PotC lore, especially when the player walks off the beaten path.

To make things better, at two points in the story you have the choice between two really quite different branches.
Additionally, there are story-specific Side Quests available, one of which directly affects the Main Quest if done early enough through Free Play.


Additional:

Spoiler

Bartolomeu o Portugues and Assassin:
Have respectively one Portuguese and one Spanish/Dutch linear main quest available. These nearly work out as "national quest lines".
Free Play is possible throughout and often encouraged/temporarily enforced. Include occasional fantasy elements, but these are rare.

Horatio Hornblower:
Completely linear English "national quest line". Playing as navy officer, Free Play is often penalized.
There are some traps and dead ends to provide "choices" for the player. Free Play possible after the main story has completed.
No fantasy elements at all.

Woodes Rogers:
Completely linear Pirate quest line, free play basically disabled.
Provides extremely different game-play from the "regular" and contains many, many clever puzzles.
Includes famous historical characters and fantasy elements.

Hopefully this can serve to provide a more common frame of reference for all Hearts of Oak developers!

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Completely Insane Concept:
Before you even look at it, please understand this:
No, I do not think we should do exactly this!!! In fact, we most certainly should NOT!
Not in PotC because it is too much work. And not in HoO because it is too similar to PotC.

That being said, imagine if all the storylines from the PotC Build Mod were available in the same game world....
And these being joined and linked together in various ways. Where you can always talk to the governor of any nation and join a different "main quest".
And where you can always do Free Play in-between as well.

This is what such a combined story tree might look like:

Spoiler

I've got to say, that is quite an impressive amount of story content with some substantial variety, both in nations involved and potential careers.
Who can recognize the various PotC Build Mod storylines in there?

Again, this here is just for fun and to provide inspiration for future Quest Writing. It is NOT supposed to be taken literally!!!

 

[Sursmurfen]

And where you can always do Free Play in-between as well.

I like this in most games but it also requires afterthought by the quest writers as it can backfire if the logic isn't ok.

Example from Red Dead Revolver (no pirates I know). At one point to progress the main quest one gets the sub-quest to win a horse race in order to raise $1000. You can't progress without some stuff you're supposedly to purchase for the $1000 and you're sidekick has this brilliant idea to win a race.

It's just that, as free play in between, I already captured a million different outlaws and had more than $25000 in my pocket at that time. I never won the race. No matter how many times I tried. Still couldn't just fork out the cash and move on. Game stuck. Traded the game for FIFA instead.

A pity really as I kind of liked RDR and that open world. Never got to experience all of it though.

Yes, I am still upset.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

How did that logic work then? Sounds weird.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

This thread moved to the PotC forum instead of the Hearts of Oak one so that it is visible to everyone.
It sort-of fits in with our discussions on "Additional Select Storyline Customization Options" here:
http://www.piratesahoy.net/threads/additional-select-storyline-customization-options.24405

 

[HellSailor]

I have been playing a lot the Stock POTC, and I got very familliar with it. I knew what tricks I could do into the game (New game required always with every change), and I felt very comfortable. Then when I discovered this mod, New Horizons, a new world was opened to me.

The first time I played, I was sooooooo excited because of the amazing and new features of this mod (First New Horizons mod I played was Build 14 Beta 3.1), and I had to spent almost an entire month to discover all the new stuff you have putted here. I loved the new changes, the fixes... basically, you have turned a game that was very simple and boring into a hole new game. But is not a new game only; you have made it a new world. Nothing of the stock POTC was there, just what I saw was a POTC NH fully upgraded to what it should be one of the best pirate games I have ever played. So for this, and I will keep saying this, thank you so much for making POTC amazing, being as a 5-star pirate game. You, volunteers, you should have worked with Akella!

And with the familiarity, now, If I have to choose something, I would choose that I got very familiar with both stock POTC and POTC NH. But unfortunately I can't choose two options, so I will only say it.

 

[Grey Roger]

I played stock PoTC for years because I didn't know any better. When I found out about the Build Mod, I played Build 12 for a short time, then Build 13 showed up and I played that for years. Build 14 came along but there were continually reports of bugs, so I stuck with Build 13. Eventually I got bored with doing the same story over and over, took the plunge and tried my luck with Build 14, which at that time was Beta 3.0. Sure enough, there were bugs aplenty and it crashed frequently, but as far as I was concerned it deserved the name "New Horizons" because there were several alternatives to the standard story, though the first time I played the standard story again anyway so that I was at least partly in familiar territory. That got me used to what else had changed, and after that I progressed onto other storylines.

I'd also bought "Age of Pirates: Caribbean Tales" when I had my Windows XP machine. This, along with another game, persuaded me to get a new graphics card - AOP didn't so much run as crawl with the old card, and the other game wouldn't run at all. Living without one of them was tolerable, living without both meant it was upgrade time! I don't know if AOP will work with Windows 7 because I haven't tried, Build 14 being so superior in all regards that I never bothered even reaching for the AOP disc. While I did have AOP installed, I played it with both the official patch and with the Supermod (not both at the same time, of course).

And now I've been trying to contribute in some small way to the development of PoTC Build 14. Serious coding is beyond me, though I've spotted a few bugs and fixed one or two simple one, as well as proof-reading various text files and updating them to reflect changes in the game world. Which reminds me...