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Poll Debate: Napoleonic Vessels vs. Golden Age Vessels

Discussion in 'The Blind Parrot' started by Post Captain, Oct 18, 2012.

?

Which era do you prefer in terms of vessel's hull designs, rigging, etc.?

  1. Napoleonic

    55.0%
  2. The Golden Age of Piracy

    45.0%
  3. Porcupine

    10.0%
  4. Other (Feel free to argue for vessels of other eras.)

    15.0%
  5. Something looks out of place up there...

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Post Captain

    Post Captain Seamanship Advisor Coordinator QC Advisor Storm Modder

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    What types of vessels do you prefer? Vessels from the Napoleonic era, the Golden Age of Piracy, or some other era? Why?

    Rules:
    Use facts and specific examples as much as possible.
    Be civilized.
    No fantasy stuff, please.
     
  2. Pieter Boelen

    Pieter Boelen (Not So) Old Seadog Staff Member Administrator Storm Modder Hearts of Oak Donator

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    Whichever era the Amsterdam is from. Why? Because she's the Amsterdam, that's why! :razz

    Seriously though, I think I like the clippers best; nice and sleek with a LOT of sails. Always very scenic! But not fitting for our game periods.
     
  3. Post Captain

    Post Captain Seamanship Advisor Coordinator QC Advisor Storm Modder

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    I must say that I do like clippers. I happen to like their ancestors, the Baltimore Clippers, even better. They were quite possibly the most rakish and predatory vessels in history, and they all carried absurdly large sail plans. In fact, I doubt that the U.S. Coast guard would authorize a fully-rigged Baltimore clipper to carry paying passengers. Pride of Baltimore II is probably the only one with a full suit of sails, and I'm certain that those can't be set with passengers on board. PoB I had a full suit of sails and she capsized in a squall.
    PoB I:
    [​IMG]
    PoB II:
    Most replica Baltimore Clippers also have modified hulls- the originals were too low in the water for modern standards.

    I also really like windjammers like Peking... Properly painted, they are the most elegant vessels I've ever seen. You have to see one of the Flying P-Liners in person painted in their original color scheme to see what I mean.
     
  4. Pieter Boelen

    Pieter Boelen (Not So) Old Seadog Staff Member Administrator Storm Modder Hearts of Oak Donator

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    Second picture doesn't show. Nice ships indeed, though I do prefer the regular ones myself.
     
  5. Post Captain

    Post Captain Seamanship Advisor Coordinator QC Advisor Storm Modder

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    How about now?


    I suppose that I would like to sail on a clipper ship some day... but my preferences probably also have something to do with the era those ships were active in. For some reason, and I have no idea why, I just don't like the period in between the Napoleonic and Barbary Wars and the Victorian era.

    And Baltimore Clippers just look scary. :p
     
  6. Hylie Pistof

    Hylie Pistof Curmudgeon Staff Member QA Tester Storm Modder

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    Porcupine? :unsure

    I prefer the early explorers. Columbus, Vasco Da Gama, Magellan, Drake. When I play just for my pleasure I will get a Carrack and NOT put stays on her and just sail around. Don't much like stays.
    Do you know Columbus averaged just under 4 knots on his voyage? I would love to average 4 knots. Overall I get at most 2 knots average no matter what the ship.

    EDIT: Still no 2nd image.
     
  7. Post Captain

    Post Captain Seamanship Advisor Coordinator QC Advisor Storm Modder

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    Four knots isn't bad at all. He must have caught a fairly decent trade wind for at least part of the voyage. One thing about them that has both advantages and disadvantages is that they're so top-heavy. Take a look at this picture I took of San Salvidor, 1542.
    [​IMG]
    That blue cut out on the scaffolding is the water line, and the poop deck bulwarks will continue up to the wooden staff near the top of the scaffolding. In very low seas, that layout would, in my opinion, make the vessel feel more hospitable than a flush deck. There's another one that's hard to explain... just trust me on this one. Unfortunately, the high center of gravity makes for some intense rolling. Staff at SD Maritime have actually predicted that it will be pretty miserable to sail on in any decent swells.
     
  8. Captain Armstrong

    Captain Armstrong Shipbuilding Coordinator Staff Member Coordinator 3D Artist Storm Modeller Storm Modder

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    Definately Napoleonic! they are just the perfect combination of sleek hull form with some somple but still elegant decoration. have to admit that by 1815 or so most new ships didn't have enough decoration for my tastes, with some exceptions like baltimore clippers which look right as they are.
     
  9. Post Captain

    Post Captain Seamanship Advisor Coordinator QC Advisor Storm Modder

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    I think this pretty much sums it up.
    [​IMG]
     
  10. Pieter Boelen

    Pieter Boelen (Not So) Old Seadog Staff Member Administrator Storm Modder Hearts of Oak Donator

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    Still no luck on that second picture. The link says "403 - Forbidden".
     
  11. SeaNorris.

    SeaNorris. HoO Team Member 3D Artist Storm Modeller Storm Modder

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    I voted for The Golden Age and Other,

    I prefer vessels from around the early eighteenth century to the end of the American Revolution but I do also like the smaller craft of the later periods such as the Royal Navy Cruizer Class brig-sloop (1797) and the American schooner Vixen (1803) which was designed as an improvement of the Schooner Enterprise (1799).

    My preferences are not limited to English and American vessels either as I have plans of Dutch, Danish, French, Spanish and Swedish vessels too.

    At the moment I am modelling a couple of smaller vessels such as single masted sloops, schooners, brigs, brigantines, cutters, snows, ketches and ships. The dates from these vary from 1711 to 1784 but because of the size of the craft they can be easily merged into one time frame if needed to promote variety.

    Regards,
     
  12. Hylie Pistof

    Hylie Pistof Curmudgeon Staff Member QA Tester Storm Modder

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    I saw a graph of Columbus's voyage once based on sightings. He averaged around 4 knots for most of the voyage and then hit a slow area where he was doing around 2 knots. Then it picked up to around 6 knots for the run into the Caribbean.

    I prefer the higher ships. Those low ones are too low and look dangerous. Too easy to swamp in heavy seas. They also have their bowsprits under water as much as above water.
     
  13. Armada

    Armada Sea Dog Staff Member Administrator Project Manager 3D Artist Storm Modder

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    I rather like Napoleonic vessels such as the Victory; elegantly decorated, but neither too over-the-top nor too bland for me. :love
    I think some of the earlier 18th century ships look nice too, and I also can't help but like some Victorian ships. There's no denying that HMS Warrior is very impressive!
    [​IMG]
     
    Robert Nutter likes this.
  14. Post Captain

    Post Captain Seamanship Advisor Coordinator QC Advisor Storm Modder

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    Ironically, the high ones were just as dangerous as the low ones. Frigates in the early 18th century were notoriously prone to just capsizing. Low, over-sailed vessels were known for being blown over in high winds, and flooding through their hatches. Fortunately, water on the decks wasn't all that dangerous, and the bowsprits were almost always able to stay above sea level.

    The Baltimore clippers were built in such a way that left them just as safe -or dangerous, by today's standards- as the earlier high-sided ships, while going one hell of a lot faster. (Alright, maybe two hells of a lot faster.)




    One other reason I like Napoleonic ships is that the ship and brig rigs were perfected during that period of time. After the year 1815, the cut of sails, rigging dimensions, and sail plans on men of war remained virtually identical, up until the beginning of the 20th century. The only reason split tops'ls and other split sails developed on merchantmen was that they were easier to handle with small crews. On steamers like Warrior, proportions remained the same, but everything was smaller. Gaff sails were also added, most commonly to the mainmast.

    See pages 16, and especially 39, here for examples.
     
  15. Walter Kennedy

    Walter Kennedy Bandit Of Barbados Storm Modder

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    I prefer the Golden Age- since its pretty much the main topic of the early 18th century. I like sloops and schooners and Galleys which were all fast, fairly crewed and decently armed. Though a regular sloop of than could only hold 12-14 guns it was sleek, and manuverable- prefect "men o wars" for pyrates. Though I'm also intrested in 19th century naval warfare- I like the 1700s better. Though there were some pyrates in the 19th century which I read and study- Benito De Soto, etc. Most of the pyrates in the 19th century were spanish, portugueze, brazilian rather than english and American. Though Charles Gibbs was the exception he once captured 20 ships and murdered 400 humans and took over the Vineyard brig taking a gold watch, brazilian dollars, sugar,etc. Aaron Smith wasnt so much of a pirate but rather a forced man for his excellent seamanship and navigation skills.
     
  16. Robert Nutter

    Robert Nutter Serving Victoria Provisional QA Tester 3D Artist Storm Modder

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    I prefer Napoleonic-era warships to earlier ones for the exact same reasons as @Armada coincidentally. Less clutter on and around the deck, more practical looking, an increasingly uniform armament, Royal Marines coming of age and of course the fact they're closer to the Victorian-era steam driven classes, with which I have such a love affair. :cool: 74's are just works of naval art in my opinion, both aesthetically and in their implementation, and for proof you just need look at any fleet action painting from the era. The later frigates are also such an incredible innovation in both how they were used and what for.

    Below: HMS Melville, a typically handsome Nelsonic 74.


    gIMG_3491.jpg
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2016
  17. Peter Blood

    Peter Blood Privateer

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    As much as I prefer the Golden Age of Piracy and find the sleek vessels to be cool, I would have to say that Napoleonic vessels had a more glorious look to them. They were sleeker, tended to pack more of a punch, and Napoleonic frigate designs were faster than those in the late sixteenth and early seventeenth century.
     
  18. Pieter Boelen

    Pieter Boelen (Not So) Old Seadog Staff Member Administrator Storm Modder Hearts of Oak Donator

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    I just like them all. They've all got their own nice looks about them.
    They're different and good thing too! Would be pretty boring if they were not.
     
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  19. Grey Roger

    Grey Roger Sea Dog Staff Member Storm Modder

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    Each era has its own attractions, but for me, Napoleonic era warships are a bit too similar to one another, being almost all variants on the theme of a standard frigate. Mind you, the Endymion / Artemise / Constitution type is a nice ship to play when you can get hold of one, almost as well armed as a lesser rate ship of the line with plenty of cargo space and the speed and agility of a frigate - what more could a privateer or pirate ask for?

    More generally, though, I prefer the variety of ships seen in "Golden Age of Piracy". (Or, for that matter, "Spanish Main" and "Colonial Powers".) A nice mix of older types from earlier periods plus some modern designs which continue on to later periods.
     
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