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WIP Elessarias Arcadia Xebec

All of the sails should always be at an identical angle. If you see anything different in engravings or paintings, the xebec is running downwind, and specialized sail settings like that are outside the scope of this game engine.

I have to respectfully disagree. "Always" doesn't apply here. Mediteranean lateen rigged ships like xebecs, feluccas and polacres follow different rules - even now. There is a reason that the main yard is shown positioned on the opposite side of the mast from the other sails. And yes that's exactly what the engravings and paintings show.

If you've ever been to the eastern Mediteranean, Adriatic and Black Seas, there are still boats about with rigs very similar and there is often a complete lack of symmetry. In many of the old paintings of galley battles you see yards in all kinds of different scavenging postions - even sails almost trimmed square.

The game engine is irrelevant in this case. The model should follow a visual historical convention I think. I believe it looks perfect just the way it is. Like it is straight out a 17TH CENTURY or 18TH century painting. I think that was what Rider88 was going for. Often, a subtle lack of symmetry adds beauty, not detracts from it. MK
Vilhelm_Melbye_-_Xebecs_and_other_shipping_off_Gibralter_at_sunset.jpg


painting1.jpg


Antonio_barcelo_1738.jpg
 
I'll admit that was poorly phrased. Hopefully this will help clear up my reasoning:
I apologize if this is too remedial or instructional; I plan on reusing it for my Parts of the Ship Thread.

First I'll start with explaining why the sails were set like that:
c9f8090a-ae06-4b9f-a90d-31d8c5749257_zpse5bb2d97.jpg
When running downwind, the large mains'l would inevitably blanket, or block all of the air flow, to the fores'l. Since the fores'l was the sail furthest forward, it provided the greatest advantage when running downwind. Therefore, a captain would have two options. First he could furl the mains'l, allowing air to pass through to the fores'l. This would result in a loss of all of the thrust provided by the mains'l. The second option, pictured in figures two through four, was to position each yard so as to maximize the airflow to each sail. This allowed both the fore and mains'l to provide thrust, and so provided more speed than the first method.

Notice how in the posted paintings all of the xebecs are running downwind in this fashion.

This method is actually identical in principle to the asymmetrical setting of studdingsails on square-rigged vessels, and the proper setting of sails on a square rigger in general.

Figure one illustrates the theoretical advantages of using a similar system to option two discussed above, in which the xebec is broad-reaching. This minimizes blanketing. However, if the xebec were to attempt to sail close-hulled with its sails trimmed as pictured, the fores'l would be nearly useless.


Next, the problem I have with the way the sails seem to be working ingame:
9acbe9da-1c05-41a5-99d3-86f0759a61b2_zpsd724efc2.jpg
In this illustration, you can see a xebec close-reaching. The diagrams to the right indicate the approximate thrust of each sail. With the sails set apparently on opposite tacks, as seen in the uppermost diagram, the resulting forward net force is very close to zero. Keep in mind that these are broad approximations. Having the sails trimmed like that accomplish exactly the same thing as backing the mainmast on a full rigged ship- the vessel is hove to, with little forward movement.


So, after all is said and done:
Yes, having the sails set like that is accurate much of the time. The problem arises when you keep them set like that all of the time, which prevents the vessel from sailing upwind. I equate setting sails like that on a lateen vessel to the use of stuns'ls on a ship. When I said that that was outside the scope of the game, I meant that it was outside the scope of the game in the same way as stuns'ls: They couldn't be used in all conditions, and the game won't allow us to to pick and choose different settings. To that extent, we have to make due with only one sail scheme that will work in all conditions.

This may need editing, but hopefully the general idea was apparent enough.

On to the model, from a sailor's point of view: Having the yards on different sides makes enough sense for the game engine, but having the mains'l set on a different tack than the others does not.
 
Thanks, Post Captain! I completely agree with this statement, BUT... The storm engine is not good enough particularly for lateen rigged vessels, such as xebecs and tartanes. At first I placed the yards in the same direction and didn't like the result. First of all I don't lake the way the mast goes through the sails (through the mainsail, if the wind blows from the starboard side and through foresail and mizzen, if the wind blows from port side). Of course I can modify a model and place all the yards on the same side of the masts, but then it will look well with the wind blowing from the one of the vessel's sides and it will look absolutely ugly with the wind blowing from the opposite side... This a little bit weird placing of yard just look better with the prehistorical storm engine, IMHO. In this case I agree with Modernknight, for me this xebec just looks better with asymmetric yard placement so at least for my copy of the game I'll leave it as it is. As for the community, I can release two different versions and one can download the version he likes best.
 
Nice explanation PC! Thanks. I agree with Rider88's reasoning.

Rider, Can you please release this beauty? I would love to include her in the GOF Eras mod that I plan to release in about three weeks from now.

Please! Please! Please!

MK
 
Nice explanation PC! Thanks. I agree with Rider88's reasoning.

Rider, Can you please release this beauty? I would love to include her in the GOF Eras mod that I plan to release in about three weeks from now.

Please! Please! Please!

MK

She will be released in 2-3 days. The in-game testing is almost done!
 
As stated in his post above, Rider88 plans to release the ship very soon.
 
Awesome! How much work would need to be done to get her properly in PotC as well?
 
Awesome! How much work would need to be done to get her properly in PotC as well?
Hmm, not much.

Arcadia1.png


She just needs her stats refined (to fit in with the rest of the ships, along with national encounter chances etc), and a nicer screenshot for the interface which isn't let down by Intel graphics. :oops:

This is the default version which doesn't have the asymmetric sail layout, but the files for that are included, so I can change that if necessary.

One problem that I know will come back to haunt me unless I mention it now: the hull has jagged edges! Look at the red/white section of the bow.
Remember how I had to re-export the Postillionen because of the same problem? Do I really have to do it again for this ship, or can Rider88 fix this?
 
I can try if you tell me how to do this, because I'm not very good with Maya.
Sure, no problem. This extract from a tutorial I wrote (which is incomplete) should explain what you need to know:

With a component still selected [...] go to 'Edit Polygons -> Normals' and select the box next to 'Set Vertex Normal'.
Make sure 'Lock Normals' is unticked and 'Unlock Normals' is ticked, then select 'Normalize Normal' and click 'Set Normal'.
You should now see the model displayed correctly, but in most cases the edges are jagged at this stage.
To fix this, go to 'Edit Polygons -> Normals' and click the box next to 'Soften/Harden'. Change the angle to 60 degrees (I usually find this has the best results), and click 'Soft/Hard'.
The model should now look much smoother than before.
[Note: if the model looks no different after the 'Soften/Harden' phase, then you probably need to merge the model's vertices.
Go to 'Edit Polygons' and click the box next to 'Merge Vertices'. Set the Distance to 0.0001, click MergeVertex, and then repeat 'Soften/Harden'.]
I hope this helps. Let me know if you need any more guidance. :)
 
well... A noob question... Is there any command in MAYA 5 which I can use to select ALL the vertices of current mesh? MAYA 5 works like shit on my laptop. I can't actually use a perspective view, so there are some problems with selecting vertices to merge them. Thanks in advance!
 
For this purpose, it's much easier to just click on the component to select it (so it's highlighted green) and perform the vertex merge on that. No need to select all the vertices individually. ;)
 
I've done everything according to the instruction. I think the model looks a little bit smoother now (see the 1st post, there's a link for a new version), but there's still some sharp edges at the vessel's bows. I think the only way to make it look smoother is to increase the number of polygons there by adding some extra edges. But is it really necessary? As for me, I'm completely satisfied with the model's look now.
 
You should be able to use "smoothing groups" so that hard edges don't show as hard edges without any additional polygons being necessary.
I have no clue how to do that in Maya though; only ever did it in 3D Studio MAX and that was a good many years ago.
 
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