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WIP Elessarias Arcadia Xebec

well the normals soften/harden operation that armada posted about has the same effect in maya as smoothing groups do in max. the smoothing command in maya adds loads of polygons.
 
Pieter Boelen said:
You should be able to use "smoothing groups" so that hard edges don't show as hard edges without any additional polygons being necessary.
I have no clue how to do that in Maya though; only ever did it in 3D Studio MAX and that was a good many years ago.
Click to expand...

It is quite easy to harden/soften edges in Maya, so I don't need to use smoothing groups in 3d max. Actually I never tried it. I only used a 'Smooth' modifier, which adds many additional polygons, It is really BAD for storm engine, thought it allows to create ideally smooth surfaces.
 
I've just checked the revised hull, and it looks much smoother to me. :onya

I managed to get a better screenshot to use for the interface image:
Arcadia1.1.png


When shrunk down to a 256 pixel square, you can't notice the effects of the Intel fix on the ocean, so it works just fine.

Now, let's talk stats. Here's the PotC ships_init entry I've drafted out so far, by using the other xebec stats as a guide:
Code: 
//-------------------------------------------------------------------------
// Arcadia Xebec by Elessaria (Ported from PotBS by Rider88)
//    <SWS - Willemstad Builders' Trials Winter 09 S/N 108> (WBT2H)  - lateen "LCS"
//-------------------------------------------------------------------------
    makeref(refShip,ShipsTypes[n]);
    n++;
    refShip.Name            = "XebekVML1";
    refShip.SName            = "Xebec1";
    refShip.id                = refShip.Name;
    refShip.Class            = 5;
    refShip.Walk            = "XebekVML";
    refShip.Cannon            = CANNON_TYPE_CARRONADE_LBS18;
    refShip.MaxCaliber        = 9;
    refShip.Weight            = Tonnes2CWT(300);
    refShip.Capacity        = 2000;
    refShip.CannonsQuantity = 30;
    // NK cannon qtys 05-04-18 -->
    refShip.Cannons.Borts.cannonf.qty = 2;
    refShip.Cannons.Borts.cannonb.qty = 2;
    // NK <--
    refShip.MaxCrew        = 170;
    refShip.MinCrew        = 30;
    refShip.Price          = 85000;
    refShip.HP              = 3000;
    refShip.SP              = 200;
 
    refShip.BigPicTexName = "SHIPS3"; //Armada
// KK -->
    refShip.BI.Tex = 10;
    refShip.BI.Pic = 10;
    refShip.QDeck = "ShipDeck5";
    refShip.CannonsDeck = 0;
    refShip.CargoHold = 1;
    refShip.Cabin = "Cabin_small";
    refShip.Flags.Mast0.Flag1 = FLAG_ENSIGN;
    refShip.Flags.Mast3.Flag1 = FLAG_ENSIGN;
// <-- KK
 
    //Period
    refShip.period.0 = 0.0; //
    refShip.period.1 = 0.0; //
    refShip.period.2 = 0.0; //
    refShip.period.3 = 0.1; //
    refShip.period.4 = 0.2; //
    refShip.period.5 = 0.1; //
    //Nation
    refShip.england = 0.0; //
    refShip.france = 0.0; //
    refShip.holland = 0.0; //
    refShip.portugal = 0.0; //
    refShip.pirate = 0.1; //
    refShip.spain = 0.0; //
    refShip.america = 0.0; //
 
    refShip.CanBuy        = true;
    refShip.CanEncounter    = true;
//    refShip.Model = "Xebec"; // KK
    refShip.Type.Trade = false;
    refShip.Type.War = true;
 
    refShip.WaterLine = 0.0;
    refShip.SpeedDependWeight = 0.3;
    refShip.SubSeaDependWeight = 0.3;
 
    if (!bArcadeMode){
        refShip.SpeedRate        = 12.5;
        refShip.TurnRate        = 90;
        refShip.InertiaAccelerationX    = 4;    refShip.InertiaBrakingX        = 0.4;
        refShip.InertiaAccelerationY    = 2.4;    refShip.InertiaBrakingY        = 0.5;
        refShip.InertiaAccelerationZ    = 2.5;    refShip.InertiaBrakingZ        = 2.0;
    }else{
        refShip.SpeedRate        = 14.0;
        refShip.TurnRate        = 55;
        refShip.InertiaAccelerationX    = 0.2;    refShip.InertiaBrakingX        = 2.0;
        refShip.InertiaAccelerationY    = 15;    refShip.InertiaBrakingY        = 10;
        refShip.InertiaAccelerationZ    = 9.0;    refShip.InertiaBrakingZ        = 6.0;
 
    }
Any thoughts on these? In particular, things like max calibre, weight, capacity, crew size, hull strength, speed and manoeuvrability are worth noting.
We should also consider which nation(s) can use the ship. Currently, all xebecs are pirate-only (except for quest ships), but should that apply to this one?
And should there be a specific type name for the ship, rather than just 'Xebec'?
 
If any nation uses a xebec it would be spain. They had a few as well as hybrid xebec-frigates, but they wouldve been confined to the mediterannean. I think france mightve experimented with them too at some point, but they wouldve been extremely rare.
 
So, am I right to say that the model looks like it should be and no any additional work on it is necessary? In that case I can switch on St.Peter snow and finish her at last.
 
Yes, the model looks right to me. Nothing else should need modifying, so by all means, please carry on with the St Peter. :onya
 
Been looking into porting this ship into my POTC and am glad you are working on it too. I seem to have forgotten a step or two.
The only thing I can quibble with now is the turn rate. This ship is bigger than the old Xebecs, so shouldn't it turn a bit slower?
 
Good point, it probably should be less manoeuvrable than its smaller cousins.
On that note, it should probably weigh more than 300 units as well. What would be a reasonable value? 400? 500?
 
Hmm. It's more of a cargo ship than a warship so 450 should be good. That is what the light fluyts and light pinnaces are.
 
This particular vessel would make a horrible merchant- xebecs were of light build, and this is no exception. Looking at the underwater hull, lighter weight and very low cargo values are probably the most accurate. Much of the hold space also would have been used for ballast to counteract the high quarterdeck and shallow draft.

There were a few xebecs built for use in the pacific by the Spaniards. The Baltic states had a few xebecs in the 18th c. as well. (See Chapelle's The Search for Speed Under Sail) There was at least one American privateer rigged as a xebec in the War of 1812, but the hull form would have been of the Baltimore clipper style. The French used xebecs in the Mediterranean.

Finally, don't give this vessel absurdly good upwind sailing abilities. Xebecs sailed best while reaching or running, not close-hulled.

For future note, xebecs did not do well in the conditions in the Pacific- they were born and bred I the Mediterranean. For future xebecs, I could point modelers to a plan of a Spanish oceangoing xebec. It's draft is much deeper than that of a typical xebec, and its lines resemble those of a Baltimore clipper while still retaining the classic Mediterranean xebec profile. You would be much more likely to find one of those in the Caribs.
 
The numbers for the old xebecs are 1250/300. This one is 2000/??? 425? :shrug The old xebecs are crazy fast and turn on a dime and give you change back. They were set up to be littoral warships.
 
This would have been way lighter than any merchant ship. (merchantmen would have been heavier than equally sized men-of-war, by the way) It has a narrow beam and shallow draft. All of the upperworks are a small factor in determining wright, etc, as they were very, very lightly built. The cargo capacity should also reflect this, being the lowest for vessels of that size ingame by a long margin.

The stock xebecs are very overpowered, and they still don't belong in the Caribbean.
 
Rider Mate, Thank you for this fine model!!! :onya

I got burned out on modding last week after trying to tackle a really hard problem. I took a few days off from it and thought about stepping away for awhile just for a change. However, your work here has re-energized me. Thank you!

Here she is in GOF Eras. I must say though that I liked how the sails were before better.

OK so now I will add to the discussion of xebecs. The Spanish weren't the only ones using xebecs. The French actually used them more. So the xebec started out as a Barbary Corsair ship that had evolved from the Mediterranean galley. The xebec started life in the early/mid 1600s.

Because the French Mediterranean ports like Marseille traded with the Levant extensively, they had to deal with Turks, Barbary Corsairs and individual North African cities ships. My recent reading of Abulafia's The Great Sea, (Oxford Press) has made me realize more than ever before just how active the French were in the Med and North African ports in the 17th century.

Abulafia goes into a very good explanation of "Flags of Convenience" - better than I've ever seen it explained. The French had so many deals brokered with North African ports that only trading ships flying a French flag would be allowed in port - and would not be attacked. An amusing aside to this was that the Dutch and English could pay for and sign agreements with the French trading venture company holding the monopoly and be allowed to trade there - however they had to fly a flag of convenience - SO - English and Dutch ships would fly the French flag so they could trade in these places. LOL

The French copied the Barbary corsairs and took the xebec to the next level. They really made the xebec their own. French xebecs were not narrow beamed. They pushed the beam out to the extreme for the class of ship to accommodate more armament. These French xebecs were escorts for Grain convoys and Levant convoys. They also formed patrols and performed coast guard duties.

Just look at all of the models of French xebecs commercially available. The Mystique, the Sciabecco Francaise, and the Requin.

I think the Arcadia is clearly a large French War Xebec from the late 17th/early 18th century.

I would offer that if any of you have the Conway History of the Ship books, that you take a look at Chapter 4 pp77-104 of "The Heyday of Sail" The Merchant Sailing Ship 1650-1830

Here's pics of this Xebec and another one from POTEHO in GOF Eras. I mostly used Rider's numbers with a couple small changes. Take a look at my write-ups. Hey - they could have gone to the Carribbean - doubtful, but maybe - nothing says they didn't??? MK

start_130317_1233298.JPGstart_130317_1235582.JPGstart_130317_1236323.JPGstart_130317_1232528.JPGstart_130317_2207339.JPG
start_130317_2126437.JPG
start_130317_2217584.JPG
 
Think of this number as the weight or inertia with the ship empty. How it handles with full holds is dealt with later. If this one is a warship it should have higher numbers to reflect the heavier hull. Hey MK, how big is this thing? You have it set with even larger holds than the POTC version will have.
 
Merchant ships had much fuller hull forms than warships. This could make them heavier for the same dimensions than warships, though in some cases warships wouldve been heavier because of their heavier construction. However, xebecs are an exception to this rule that warships have heavier construction, as their extremely fine lines and need for speed called for a very light construction. It doesnt follow a formula of warship=heavy, each ship must be considered individually.
 
Once again, I concur. There is almost nothing below the waterline, relatively speaking, and what is there is of very light build.
 
MK, I should point out that Elessaria was the person that made the model, and so the name shouldn't be a part of the in-game ship type name (i.e. just "Arcadia Xebec" without "Elessaria's" in front).
 
Most of the stats seem a bit high, now that I've looked. 12 pound long guns are probably too large for a vessel like that. I'll have to check the game files to find the proper relative sailing qualities.
 
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