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    Maelstrom New Horizons


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Hurtin' Balls!

Is ANYONE playing with the CMv3 or just testing? :blink:
I've been trying to play CMv3 for some days and i've given up, too many unexplainable changes from vanilla like this in the ammunition. I will post a personal review of the mod in its thread when i can, but as i have found this post i will say a few things about it here.
The reason why ships were sunk was not that their hulls were reduced to nothing but they caught fire or the hull was breached under the waterline. Obviousy, to sink a ship by destroying the hull with broadside after broadside should take a long time, but the game is coded to give a critic every now and then, and that should be moded to further reflect that kind of damage. Fires should be the most feared, and once a fire is out of control the ship is lost. Hull breachs too should be a very serious problem for any ship. Broken masts were nasty as well, as the ship couldn't maneuver until chopped down and the rigging cut.

Now about the changes in the ammunition, i have compared the vanilla and the mod version (CMv3 + patch 1.7) and they are still way too much reduced. First if someone changes the values i'd wish i could read an explanation about them, or at least to be able to choose weather i want them or not. Instead, the changes in ammunition values are left and they start to change cannons and ships hull HP. How about reverting to vanilla values and working from them? Even cannon balls were more dangerous than you could think for the ship crew, because they sent a cloud of wood splinters upon impact, which could cripple any man in a big radius. Sails were very vulnerable to enemy fire, and shrapnel on the deck was simple devastating. So, when you compare vanilla values with mod values the only thing you can say is why?
dunno.gif


If its possible it would be nice that damage would increase at close range as Luke said, but in the way of more criticals the closer the shot. It would be great to mod the fires code.

(Sorry for my english)
 
Well for CMV3.2 you will not have this problem since you can choose to play with the vanilla value's or the ones set for RTBL, you will have to decide which you wish to use before starting your game as changing it will require a new game for the changes to take effect.

Also on the reload times, there is a switch just like the shot types damage multiplier where you can switch between realistic loading times or very fast reload times and just like the vanilla/RTBL switch you must choose to start the game with one of those choices as you can't change your mind afterwards.
 
Even with CM 3.1.5 I think it is still weak ...

You're entitled to your opinion mate. From a gamer's shoot em up stand point you might be right, but not from a historical aspect, which is what we were after in RTBL and now the new numbers Luke's tweaking.

I've been playin the hell out of 3.1.5 and I think it's spot on. :onya

Remember, We're talkin about primarily solid shot here. Go back into the history books and find out how many ships were actually sunk in large naval battles during the age of sail. The largest sailing naval battles of history actually occured during the Anglo-Dutch wars. We are talking about fleet actions of over a hundred and fifty ships against a hundred and fifty ships. The Four Days Fight was the largest age of sail battle in history and only a handfull of ships were actually sunk. :mm

For over a year Luke and I have talked about a toggle that could switch you back and forth between vanilla and historically realistic. This would be the perfect scenario.

Putting the shoe on the other foot, I remember being really frustrated and angry playing vanilla when I was a beginner getting sunk by one single broadside from an enemy ship chasing me. Not fair or realistic. :shrug

MK
 
The thing is it's not really about what the history books say, to me its just a game .... I don't want to waste hours on one battle, I want to experience the game and not drain my whole day by playing it ... not everything that the CM mod adds has to be 100% lickiddy split realistic, this ain't no VR simulation here lol ... but like you said that's my opinion.

I actually had lot's of fun playing vanilla, to me the sea battles were perfect, the game was just lacking in content. Was that ship a big warship? If it had many high caliber cannons that wouldn't be unrealistic ... If not, I have never had that happen before, maybe you were playing with the difficulty too high?
 
For all the realistic aspects we have added into the game you will find toggle switches for them, you must make the selection of the 4 options before loading your game because you have to change these settings via _mods_on_off, these settings i talk about are as follows.

RTBL, choose to fight with RTBL value's or with stock value's (this is for shot types)

Realistic spyglass by Ashley, choose to play with the standard settings for all spyglasses or have no spyglasses show any of the main stats ie, speed, amount of guns, calibure, ship hp, sail hp etc.

Realistic ship purchase, choose to play with the normal settings where every ship other than quest ships apart from the Arabella are unavilable to buy or play with the more realistic feature where only small ships are available to buy, means you must capture MOW's if you want to own one and all other large ships like Corvette's Frigates, trade ships like Pinnace's (sorry MK), Fleut's, Galleon's etc etc.

Realistic cannon loading times, choose the one you want, very fast reloading times or realistic loading times.

Like MK said we have been working for over a year now trying to fine tune it all, RTBL its self was much larger than it is now because originally RTBL effected the ships stats, shot types, cannons stats etc. Now RTBL only effects the shot types stats. Having realistic gameplay isn't for everyone, we knew that from day one and this is why RTBL's main effects was removed from CMV3.0 before its release but still people still said it took to long for ships to be sunk. In the end for CMV3.2 all shot types value's was set back to vanilla value's, then i was learned how to use switches and decided to try that with RTBL value's because to be honest i never liked and never will like the vanilla battles they was just plain boring. One broadside of grapes and the ship is yours where's the fun in that. Or a couple broadsides of knipple shots and the ship is demasted. 3 to 4 broadsides of bombs and the ship is sunk, i fully respect and understand that critical hits mean something but how many critical hits do you get with bombs almost every shot fired could be a critical hit.

We will never get the game to be fully realistic for the battles, but if we could the area i would work on is the cannon damage, example firing a broadside into the side of a enemy ship from distance would do less damage than up close but like fire the next biggest fear for a captain and his crew is a ship firing a broadside into the stern of his ship, not only would this be deverstating to any ship including MOW's but heavy looses would be taken. Look at HMS Victory as she broke the line and fired a broadside into the ships either side it was the ship on her left that was effected the most as those shots went through the stern killing many and injuring many more but also destroying many cannons too. That from a single broadside into the stern, but then you have to look at the dates. That was in 1800's when Nelson tried to use tactics like that. The game takes play in the 1600's and many ships we have ingame wasn't even thourght of and cannon shots did less damage than they did in the 1800's.

So in truth we was aiming for more realisric battles, but like i said you can set which you like the most RTBL or stock. RTBL's value's have been increased slightly over what was in CMV3.1.5 and bombs are more effective than they was since these value's was lowered to be well pointless shot types to carry. Since thats a shot type the AI use a lot of i increased the stats for the bombs. Basically the bombs will damage the ships hull but not as much as the round shots, they will also kill crew but not as much as the grapeshots, they will damage rigging but not as much as knipples. In short the bombs are usefull but will not do what the desired shot type for that situation was designed for. So you want to demast a ship you would use grapeshots not bombs but if you run out of knipple shots bombs are the next best thing.

When CMV3.2 is released you will see all this for yourself and you might become a fan of RTBL, but if not then thats ok. You don't have to use the RTBL value's like in CMV3.1.5 or any of the realistic features added to CMV3.2. :onya
 
Well I am glad to hear we have the option to toggle what we want :onya

I do like the realistic shipyard Idea thou ...

What's weird thou is that I have never experienced what guys say about the Vanilla battles ... I played vanilla for quite a while and the battles were just right for me, no one shot destroyed mast or one broadside and your done ... that's over exaggerated

Regarding the bombs ... I mean wouldn't they be deadly??? Depending on the ship, 3 to 4 broadside of bombs can do ALOT not only to the hull, which would catch on fire, but also the sails and the shrapnel killing the crew lol ... maybe the vanilla game was to hard for you guys LOL

Would bombs have been realistic on a mass scale in the game anyway, since the AI always uses those? I think not, especially in use for cannon/culeverin, they would have been too expensive, they were only really in uses during boardings ... just balls, grapes and klippers ...
 
No i don't like the bombs and for RTBL they have been reduced for the reasons such as not been true to the time period and because it puts all other shot types out of use. Even in the 1800's round shots was still the desired shot type by the English, knipple shots by the French and the Spanish as we know liked to bored so would have used bombs but not fired from cannons thrown by a person.

In RTBL the bombs haven't been ruled out like in CMV3.1.5, they have been lowered so that they are the second best choice for each of the situations you will find yourself in. Most people playing with RTBL on might use the bombs due to there slightly extended distance over grapes and because they damage the sails, hull aswell as kill the crew while grapes will only kill the crew and do next to no damage to the sails or hull. In short here's how it works.

Round shots are the best for damaging the ships hull, they will kill crew but not as many as the grapes and will damage the sails but not as much as the knipples.

Grape shot, will kill more crew than any other shot type, will do very little damage to sails and the hull.

Knipple shots, will kill crew but not as many as the grapes and will damage the ships hull but not as much as the round shot or bombs. These are the best for damaging the sails.

Bombs, the best all round shot type, will damage the ships hull but not as bad as round shots, will kill crew but not as many as grapes and will damage sails but not as bad as knipples.

So bombs haven't been ruled out and are very much still apart of the game, example you don't give a damn about the ship your attacking or thats attacking you, you can use bombs to save on the other shot types and build your skills up. Bombs give critical hits far more than any other shot type so you will see some effects from this which could increase the effects of the shots that landed those criticals.

Personally i would rather have removed bombs from the game but they are there and to make it so they are still valid these settings was given to them. In CMV3.1.5 the bombs was pritty much pointless, now they have a reason and been the second best all round shot type that is better than been pointless. Vanilla the bombs are the best as was the case in vanilla.

Been a player for vanilla for a while before modding it, i found vanilla to be a joke when it came to naval battles. Thats what lead to me working on a mod which at the time was big changes and later MK and myself worked on making it more of a balanced gameplay for those who liked the changes and RTBL was the outcome. Then we both started porting ships over and before we knew it we had ported almost all the ships from POTC or at least the individual models anyway.

RTBL was much larger than it is today, cannons was changed, shot types was changes, major changes to all ships stats. The HMS Vctory was a slow ship but managed 11 knots, the Whydah was able to reach 14 knots which was very fast for a ship type like her. If we take into account the difference in ships then you would have the Spanish, French and Dutch having slight different ships to each other and the English having the largest of changes because they was more moneuverable and had less crew onboard hence the reason they didn't like getting to close to other ships.

Why isn't this game a simulation, well if it was then wheil you was boarding or been boarded any other ships that might be fighting would still be able to fire at you but in COAS its like the battle is paused when the boarding starts and resumes after that battle is over so its two seperate interactions rather than one which is where the game looses its realism and is why i said we will never get this game to play out as realsitic as it would have been back then.

Oh boy i need to stop writing long messages.
 
LOL yeah.

I like the Idea of each nation using specific ship types, that would make the game more interesting and less stale.

We will see when CM3.2 comes out ... I am eager to see the changes and fixes, talking about it makes me more eager to play it lol

The only thing that really bugs me is that all sailors on the ships look like British naval officers with the blue coat (Not boarding but when you navigate your ship real time) and some ships having screwed up sailor walk files where they are floating and going inside the model (Like they are not even on the right ship)
 
:woot Honestly I really don't mind the blue coats. I think they are faily generic actually.

I think it's better than all the randomness we used to have and you do see different uniforms dependent on what ships you're on. You don't see the blue coats on pirate vessels.

BTW: The Dutch, French, and US navies all used blue coats as well. :shrug

As far as vanilla goes, I'm with Luke. I play this game for the naval engagements more than any other aspect. The game was just boring with vanilla settings and by the time you achieved level 50 and had all the perks you were an unbeatable God. Battles would last half a minute and you were now the guy sinking the enemy ships with one broadside.

If that never happened to you, you just got lucky and encountered lower skill NPC Ships. If you'd encountered a tough guy, he'd chew you up with one or two broadsides and you had no chance of outrunning him with low beginner perks/skills. I wish there was some way we could go MMO on this cause with the hundreds of hours of my life I have frittered away on this game, I AM THE GRANDMASTER OF COAS COMBAT (both naval and sword) MWA HA HA HA HA! I would chew you up man, vanilla or RTBL! LOL :woot

MK
 
Yeah well I have better things to do than wasting hundreds of hours on a game lol .... do you really spend that much time playing??? Don't you have a wife or girlfriend??? other hobbies? lol :razz :cheeky
 
I freely admit I have absolutely no life right now and haven't for the last several years. I am a total slave to my work - until I retire in a couple more years. (You'll be so lucky to retire so young). Video games are my outlet to blow off stress and go into an alternate reality. I AM someone else when I go in.

I will say though that I've seen more of this world and have experienced more REAL adventure in just 10 years than most would be lucky to experience in a lifetime. However, everything but the sky and sand are temporary.

In a couple more years I'll be thinkin about you while I sail my 51 footer two masted Ketch around the world (for real) and take five years to do it......then I'll just play the game on my laptop while I'm waiting for the rain to stop so I can go up on deck and drink Mai Tais. :razz

MK
 
Sound's awesome and exciting MK! Indeed, video games is a good way to blow of stress and to get away :onya

Wish you luck on your world venture!

I was thinking of taking a Man o War out around the ocean ... but I would probably get destroyed by some nations navy LOL
 
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