Included in Build Ingame Explanation of Nation Relations

[Talisman]

There are currently two ways to get it:
1. When you get a LoM
2. When you ask any governor or diplomat about International Relations

That second option is available to everyone from the start of the game, of course.
But I doubt anyone ever cares enough to press that, because of course it tells you nothing that the Nations Relations Interface doesn't already do.
Would be nice to link that to some explanatory dialog instead, but even then players still aren't going to be choosing that option, are they?

Maybe if I change the initial text so that players familiar with the game will actually notice it is different?
Other option might be to have the book available for purchase; at least then it may show up in an interface players will often look at.

What about players who are just interested in playing the stories.
They are probably not going to go and get a letter of Marque - or talk to the Governor unless the story sends them to & then they will stick with the story dialogue.
They will wonder why if they attack a ship different things happen from previous versions of the Game.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

What about players who are just interested in playing the stories.
They are probably not going to go and get a letter of Marque - or talk to the Governor unless the story sends them to & then they will stick with the story dialogue.
They will wonder why if they attack a ship different things happen from previous versions of the Game.

So.... Put the books at the traders, then?

I wouldn't recommend players to ignore the game world because they're solely focusing on any quests though.
But then... that should indeed be their choice.

 

[Levis]

That applies to all other books too, right? Looks like indeed that goes completely unused. I'll remove it right now.
@Levis, can you confirm that I can safely get rid of that?

Seems to be the case yes. You can remove it from both the old and new interface

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Thanks for confirming! It is already done in my last upload.

 

[Talisman]

So.... Put the books at the traders, then?

- My preference would be to give them to players with the Archipelago Map when they start then they know what is going on from the beginning.

Put them with Traders and they may not buy them - or notice them among all the other books, and if they do notice them they may think they are just another item to collect if they wish.

I wouldn't recommend players to ignore the game world because they're solely focusing on any quests though.
But then... that should indeed be their choice.

The trouble is that the game world is so vast and has been made to accommodate so many different playing styles - that an individual player cannot hope to explore all the available options that are open to them - and also people tend to stick with the playing style they like and play the game in the way that gives them the most enjoyment; usually ignoring the parts of the game that are not connected with the parts they like to play. Sad but true.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

I fear that when giving the book at the start of the game, players still wouldn't notice it is even there.
And if they do, there is little guarantee they'll actually read it. So perhaps something extra would still be required.

For Free Play, I could add a note to the Chancing Nation Relations quest book entry.

 

[Talisman]

I fear that when giving the book at the start of the game, players still wouldn't notice it is even there.
And if they do, there is little guarantee they'll actually read it.

That is true -

But at least when they ask on the forum you'll know they have the book ( if they have not already sold it to raise some gold ) - and suggest they read it then ask questions about anything they don't understand.

Because the changes are very significant - they will catch out regular players . If they have the book from the start & Perhaps in BIG letters Put READ THIS - IT IS IMPORTANT on the F2 - items screen description of the book. Some players might actually do that.
What more can you do to help them?

If we do this at least for a short while, until the players are used to the new system, then we can go back to having it as an ordinary book,which is purchased or given to the player by game characters.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Since new players may always find their way to the game, I'd prefer any solution to be a permanent one.
So I'd like to avoid making it REALLY obvious now and toning it down later on....

Some thoughts I can think of:

- Giving players the book at the start of the game. At least they'll have it, but they may not notice or bother to read it.

- Have a Questbook entry added at the start of the game to point players towards the reading of the book.
This would work well with the "Changing Nation Relations" questbook entry that you get on the Free Play storyline anyway, but may not work as well for the other storylines.

- Having the book sold from traders, so at least it will be located in an interface players will probably often look through, searching for items they want.

- Change the default "I'm interested in nation relations" dialog for governors to something that draws a bit more attention to itself and leads to a more useful explanantion too.
If so, does anyone have any thoughts on the details that should be provided there and how to make the option stand out better?
- Have the book given upon choosing that option (this is currently the case), but ALSO have it mentioned in dialog that this happened (currently does NOT happen).
- Have the book given upon buying a LoM (this is currently the case), but ALSO have the dialog mention that privateers should be familiar with its contents (currently does NOT happen).

- Add a note to the default tutorial dialog: I'd prefer avoiding that because it is already full of information that players like skipping over, so they still won't notice.

- Have one of the abilities unlocked through reading this book as that would at least FORCE players to actually view the text (if not read it....?).
Perhaps this could be an ability that costs only one point and doesn't require anything else, so you can get it right at the start of the game if you want.
This could be a NEW one that specifically allows you to buy LoMs. But then how to encourage players who play as pirates or without a LoM?

 

[Grey Roger]

If the book is to be given for free at the start or available from traders, the briefing officer (Malcolm Hatcher or whoever does his job for various careers and storyline starts) could say something like "Now you're in charge, you'd better learn about the laws of the sea so we don't end up hanging as pirates. There's a useful book in your chest / Buy a book on law first chance you get."

If the book is split into general law (how not to be a pirate) and naval law (what you're allowed to do under a LoM or naval commission) then the naval law book should indeed be given when you get your LoM (at the start if you're a corsair or naval officer, otherwise when you buy the LoM or join the navy). If you buy the LoM or join the navy then the governor should indeed tell you in no uncertain terms that you need to know what's expected of you so read the book!

Tying it to a locked perk is a great way to hide it from players like me who hate locked perks and disable them in "InternalSettings.h" immediately after installing a game or update.

Player without a LoM don't need to know the stuff about relations; keeping the stuff about how not to be a pirate separate would make it shorter which could encourage them to read it. Pirates don't care about rules and regulations and certainly don't want to know how to avoid becoming a pirate!

 

[Pieter Boelen]

If the book is to be given for free at the start or available from traders, the briefing officer (Malcolm Hatcher or whoever does his job for various careers and storyline starts) could say something like "Now you're in charge, you'd better learn about the laws of the sea so we don't end up hanging as pirates. There's a useful book in your chest / Buy a book on law first chance you get."

For Malcolm Hatcher and the Free Play starts, that should indeed work. Not sure about the various storylines though.
Perhaps there we should leave it up the the storyline writers to make it truly stand out if they so desire?

Tying it to a locked perk is a great way to hide it from players like me who hate locked perks and disable them in "InternalSettings.h" immediately after installing a game or update.

On the other hand, I would expect players who tweak their settings in a code file to sort-of know what they're doing and probably to be already active here on the forum and therefore know what we've discussed.
Or maybe not....

Player without a LoM don't need to know the stuff about relations; keeping the stuff about how not to be a pirate separate would make it shorter which could encourage them to read it.

There is truth in that, of course. Is it currently truly so dauntingly large?
As I see it, it is only quite a few lines: http://www.piratesahoy.net/threads/ingame-explanation-of-nation-relations.25516/page-2#post-515452
Though perhaps that won't be the case anymore if it is decided to expand on it further.
But then.... what more to add?

Pirates don't care about rules and regulations and certainly don't want to know how to avoid becoming a pirate!

Would-be pirates might want to know what is considered a BAD act of piracy? Of course once you actually ARE a pirate, it doesn't matter much anymore.
Except perhaps some explanation on false flags.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

I'll see about experimenting with this over the coming week. We need to get something workable prior to the Beta 4 public release.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

I've done some rewriting to the governor dialog files, which is now included in here: http://www.piratesahoy.net/threads/build-14-beta-4-internal-wip-for-testing.25696

If you don't already have the "Relations Book", you'll get to see different text in the dialog.
You will then be given it and the dialog tries to encourage the players to read it.
Hopefully the fact that the dialog is different now will also get players curious....

I also made a change that should get the "generic governor functionality" active also the FIRST time you talk to a governor.
That should save you the trouble of initiating dialog twice and also make all of this more obvious.
However, I do not know for sure if you now won't suddenly get to see these options in dialog nodes where it doesn't belong.
Keep an eye out for that!!!

For Reynard Grueneveldt, I have also changed his personal dialog.c files so the "exit" option is always at the bottom.
I reckon it would be quite nice to have that done for ALL OTHER governor dialogs too.
However, that does require some very simple edits to their separate files. Any chance somebody else would be willing to do that if I explain how....?

 

[Pieter Boelen]

What I intend to do in addition to this rewritten dialog is to generate a Questbook Entry that is closed/deleted only once you actually READ the book.

 

[Levis]

What I intend to do in addition to this rewritten dialog is to generate a Questbook Entry that is closed/deleted only once you actually READ the book.

Sounds good to me . Altough it might be kinda usless, but might be expanded on for the final build 14 to add some more tutorial aspects if we find it's needed.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Sounds good to me . Altough it might be kinda usless, but might be expanded on for the final build 14 to add some more tutorial aspects if we find it's needed.

It is just a matter of drawing attention.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Has anyone seen this new dialog yet? Any comments, questions, suggestions?
This weekend I'll probably have time to make some further improvements, but that is very difficult to do without feedback....

 

[Pieter Boelen]

For reference, this is the dialog I'm referring to:

It only shows up if you don't have the "Relations Book" already.
Hopefully the fact that it is different from the former text will encourage players to actually notice it.

But just to be sure, I'm adding the following "sledge-hammer" approach through a questbook entry that is ALWAYS added on a new game:

This quest is erased from the questbook as soon when you "read" that book.

The book is given to you if you didn't already have it when:
- You choose that dialog option shown above with any governor (you get this for free)
- You get a LoM with any governor
- Upon any promotion as Privateer or Navy Officer
- Starting the game as Hornblower (because you don't automatically get promoted at game start there)

Would you guys reckon that will be obvious enough?
It feels to me like a rather unsubtle approach, but you all know otherwise players are just going to be well confused.

 

[Levis]

@Pieter Boelen I think this is to much in the face. And what's wrong with a little suprise. Why don't you trigger this quest the first time your relation is changed when attacking someone? Or just the first negative relation change. That's soon enough right?

 

[Pieter Boelen]

@Pieter Boelen I think this is to much in the face. And what's wrong with a little suprise. Why don't you trigger this quest the first time your relation is changed when attacking someone? Or just the first negative relation change. That's soon enough right?

On the one hand, I wonder if waiting with encouraging players to find the information is the right thing to do....
If they know too late, then they'll already have paid the price for not knowing.
That being said, this does seem very in your face and I am no great fan of this approach myself.

Not sure what would happen if you DO get the book and read it, but the questbook entry hasn't triggered yet.

I could trigger it in the UpdateRMRelation function, of course, which is the one responsible for the actual relation changes based on capturing/sinking a ship.
But as I said, that would be too late. Maybe the first time you fire a cannonball at another ship?
You'll be in mid-battle then and won't pay attention to questbook entries either.

This does remind me of another explanatory note I added to the game when Changing Relations is ON:

  // Fudge Dragon: Changing Face of the Caribbean -->
   if (sti(GetStorylineVar(FindCurrentStoryline(), "CHANGING_RELATIONS")))
   {
     // Sulan: improved code and moved it to nations.c
     RandomNationsRelationsChange();
     if(!CheckAttribute(PChar, "changing_relations_note"))   // PB: Add clarifying note
     {
       SetQuestHeader("changing_relations");
       AddQuestRecord("changing_relations", "1");
       CloseQuestHeader("changing_relations");
       PChar.changing_relations_note = 1;
     }
   }
   // Fudge Dragon: Changing Face of the Caribbean <--

That one occurs at the first midnight after starting the game.
I could change that one to trigger only AFTER the first Random Relation Change.
Then we can move the "Relations Book" one to occur at the first midnight instead.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Tutorial Quest now included in here too: Mod Release - Build 14 Beta 4 Internal WIP For Testing | PiratesAhoy!

Please DO provide feedback as I'd really rather handle this in an equally effective, but less obtrusive way!