• New Horizons on Maelstrom
    Maelstrom New Horizons


    Visit our website www.piratehorizons.com to quickly find download links for the newest versions of our New Horizons mods Beyond New Horizons and Maelstrom New Horizons!

Included in Build Merchant Gameplay

Grey Roger said:
Is the document called "EITC Passport" or "WIC" Passport" in the game? If so, you'll need to change it. EITC aren't going to sell a passport for a rival company, and Early Explorers Spain isn't going to sell a document for a hostile nation's company which won't exist until the next century. xD
Click to expand...
Rename it to "EITC Passport" and "Trade Passport"? If we don't specify the company, it can't be wrong either. :cheeky

Grey Roger said:
Possibly have a generic merchant licence which costs less, doesn't grant any special access, but does show you to be an honest merchant and prevents the crew from demanding division of plunder. Maybe have this sold by storekeepers or governors. It should be cheaper than a LoM and should be revoked if you get a LoM; you're no longer a peaceful merchant, you're a privateer, and the crew will want a share of the proceeds. The EITC office in "Early Explorers" can then either be disabled, locked, or have the owner say something like "We're closed at the moment, come back in 100 years". :D It would also means merchants from other nations could at least get some of the benefit of the licence without having to work for Britain or Holland.
Click to expand...
Making it a generic merchant license is indeed what I had in mind too.

However, making it cheaper than a LoM would be REALLY sheap. Especially in the early game.
I would want it to be prohibitively expensive or people would get one all the time and be done with it. Shouldn't be too easy.
If you want to carry a LOT of money around, more than you need to run your fleet, you should be able to spare a lot of money to purchase that Passport too.

Not sure about taking away the "Merchant Passport" when you get a LoM. That prevents you from having a LoM AND a Passport.
That would be OK once there are trade ranks, but right now there aren't and probably won't be for a while.
Would you be able to get a Passport while you have a LoM at all? If so, losing it means you can re-buy it and it is just an inconvenience. :facepalm

At the moment you CAN buy the Passport items regardless of whichever nation you do or don't work for.
The only possible concern is that they are sold only in two towns, so if that is a hostile town, you need to sneak in there.

Having them sold from all store owners would certainly be a possibility. I could stick the dialog option in the shared merchant dialog instead of having a separate file for it.
Might be a bit odd to have that one ALWAYS shown at the beginning, so perhaps enable it only once you gain the "Trustworthy" ability?
Though that one is unlocked by working for a governor and therefore requires a LoM. So that is probably not such a good idea.
Perhaps the ability that is unlocked by doing a Fetch Quest for a Merchant then instead?
That might make sense as by doing the Fetch Quest, you have proven to the merchants that you are friendly to their cause.

Locking the trade offices is easy enough; they used to be in Beta 3.4 anyway.
 
What I have in mind is two different licences.

The basic licence should be cheap, easily available, and incompatible with a LoM. It marks you as an honest, peaceful merchant and means you don't need to switch to payment by dividing plunder. If you have a LoM then you're not a peaceful merchant, you're a privateer and the crew will want their share of all the prize money you're raking in. Apart from that condition, though, it's basically an in-game replacement for the "unlimited loot" toggle, which was set before you even started the game and didn't cost anything. ;) The basic licence shouldn't need any unlocking. (Or perhaps make it free and have the store offer it whenever you complete a cargo delivery quest. It's about time those got some use. Fetch quests already have other unlocks associated with them.)

The EITC/WIC passports would be as they are now - very expensive unless you get them right at the start, can be used with LoM's, give you special treatment courtesy of the company. As company employees, the crew will be paid by salary. A big company like the EITC can tread closer to the line between merchant and privateer than an independent merchant can, which is why the passport can co-exist with a LoM. That privilege is part of what you're buying for the 1,000,000 or 2,000,000 price tag.
 
Grey Roger said:
What I have in mind is two different licences.
Click to expand...
While I don't object to that idea in theory, right now there aren't any actual trading companies (we're just faking it).
As such, there isn't much "special treatment" to be had right now.
Doing what you suggest would take quite a bit of further development, so we might as well combine that with actually adding those companies.

I'm also not sold on giving players a cheap way of getting past the "Unlimited Loot" toggle.
Too often people avoid "Divide the Plunder" mode apparently 'just because' and I don't want them to!
If they ARE going to avoid it, at least I'd want them to do it very much on purpose.
And since you want to be able to have a lot of money, you should be able to spare the big sum it takes too.

Once there is a "low-level" license that does work together with a LoM and a "high-level" one that does, we could do as you suggest.
But for now, the simplest thing to do is to kick the "EITC License" back to quest-only item.
The "WIC License" becomes a "Trade License" that is sold from Jamaica AND Curacao and the high cost remains.

Extra bonus would be to have it sold from ALL merchants after completing a Cargo Delibery quest as you suggest.
That should not be too difficult to set up, but as per usual.... add all "not too difficult jobs" together and you've got a ridiculous amount of work. :facepalm

Or would somebody be interested in setting up a bit more fancy system for the trading licenses?
Most of the foundation is already in place; it would just require building on.
Might be a fun project for somebody interested in helping out a bit! :cheers
 
I do want to build on the trading licence a bit but at the moment I got my hands full with other stuff :p.
If people think it's not worth the investment we could think about making food cheaper or even free when having the licence.... (The WIC haggles for the best price for theire ships or even provides it for you). That would make it worth the price maybe? Also I believe we got special "trade" ships in the shipyard. Why not do the same as with the navy licence and have them sold only to people who have the WIC licence?
 
Levis said:
If people think it's not worth the investment we could think about making food cheaper or even free when having the licence....
Click to expand...
Is the investment the issue?

Levis said:
If people think it's not worth the investment we could think about making food cheaper or even free when having the licence.... (The WIC haggles for the best price for theire ships or even provides it for you). That would make it worth the price maybe? Also I believe we got special "trade" ships in the shipyard. Why not do the same as with the navy licence and have them sold only to people who have the WIC licence?
Click to expand...
Would be nice for when you officially join an actual trading company.
But that is best done with all the above suggestions together, I think.
 
Pieter Boelen said:
I'm also not sold on giving players a cheap way of getting past the "Unlimited Loot" toggle.
Too often people avoid "Divide the Plunder" mode apparently 'just because' and I don't want them to!
If they ARE going to avoid it, at least I'd want them to do it very much on purpose.
And since you want to be able to have a lot of money, you should be able to spare the big sum it takes too.
Click to expand...
I'm probably misunderstanding, but this sounds like the symptom of forcing players to play the game the way we want rather than letting them play the game the way they want. If someone doesn't want to pay by dividing plunder, it would be nice to give them the option to stick with salaries pretty much right from the start.

Anyway, there are benefits to paying by dividing plunder in the form of higher crew morale, and drawbacks to using the simple licence. As it would be incompatible with a LoM, the player can't attack anything unless it attacks him first, so encounters with enemy merchants are going to be boring and encounters with enemy warships are likely to involve running away. That just leaves the occasional pirate as a source of excitement. Also, paying by dividing plunder means you get a share of the loot into your personal account, which adds to your fame.

But then, some people don't want much sea-based excitement, they just want to get to the next port and do things on land. Or they may not want to gain fame if they're routinely trying to sneak into hostile ports. The basic merchant licence would offer a whole different style of gameplay, which is another reason why I believe it ought to be cheap so that players can choose to get one very early in the game.
 
Grey Roger said:
I'm probably misunderstanding, but this sounds like the symptom of forcing players to play the game the way we want rather than letting them play the game the way they want. If someone doesn't want to pay by dividing plunder, it would be nice to give them the option to stick with salaries pretty much right from the start.
Click to expand...
You only get the reduced morale and "Divide the Plunder" note if you have a lot of money, which you don't right at the start.
I also seem to recall you or me changing that code so it affects ONLY pirates and players with a LoM.

The only reason you should need a "Trade Passport" is if you DO have a LoM or are a pirate and want to be able to carry a lot of money around and really, really don't want to use Divide the Plunder mode.
If that is the case, you probably have quite a bit of money to spare. And it happens only in the later game. And it affects only characters who would otherwise be considered Privateers/Corsairs.

So basically not having a LoM is equal to having the simple license you propose and that is already the case in the early game for pretty much all characters.
That makes this pretty much a non-issue, doesn't it? o_O
 
Last edited:
Fair enough. I'd forgotten that the compulsory switch to dividing by plunder only applies to pirates and privateers. In which case, yes, if you haven't become a pirate and haven't bought a LoM, you're a peaceful merchant by default and don't need to switch payment method. :onya
 
Grey Roger said:
Fair enough. I'd forgotten that the compulsory switch to dividing by plunder only applies to pirates and privateers. In which case, yes, if you haven't become a pirate and haven't bought a LoM, you're a peaceful merchant by default and don't need to switch payment method. :onya
Click to expand...
As a reminder, this is the code we have for it now:
Code: 
bool AllowUnlimitedLoot()
{
    ref PChar = GetMainCharacter();
    if (ProfessionalNavyNation() != UNKNOWN_NATION) return true; // LDH add test for navy character if available - 16Apr09
    if (CheckAttribute(PChar, "isnotcaptain")) return true; // Crew doesn't mind, because you're not the captain anyway
    if (GetServedNation() == PIRATE) return false; // Pirates will always be envious of captains with a lot of money
    if (CheckCharacterItem(PChar, "WIC_Passport")) return true; // Always OK if you have documents indicating you are an honest merchant
    if (CheckCharacterItem(PChar, "EITC_Passport")) return true; // Always OK if you have documents indicating you are an honest merchant
    return GetLetterOfMarqueQuantity() == 0; // Crew is OK with your money as long as you're not a privateer
}

Worth noting that GetServedNation() == PIRATE can happen now due to acts of piracy and also applies if you formally join the pirates, even if you have another LoM.
Basically if you have any affiliation with the pirates, the Merchant Passport items don't serve their purpose any longer.
Which seems fair enough to me. :cheeky
 
As mentioned last week, I have just made the following changes:
- The "WIC Passport" has been renamed to "Merchant Passport" and can be purchased for 1,000,000 gold at the EITC and WIC offices
- The "EITC Passport" item is now a quest-only item and you cannot get it outside the Jack Sparrow storyline; it does serve the purpose of the regular "Merchant Passport" as well
 
This feature is ready for the Beta 4 public release. Archived accordingly. :cheeky
 
Although not originally intended, I did include a rather large update to this in here:
Mod Release - Build 14 Beta 4 Internal WIP For Testing | PiratesAhoy!

For the Medium Priority - Different Shipyard Sale Prices for Naval Officers/Privateers | PiratesAhoy! feature, I added a 50% commission on selling cargo for navy officers and privateers.
Then I figured that players who want a LoM AND play as a merchant would probably not appreciate this very much (and for good reason!).
Additionally, the "Merchant License" basically served no purposes for characters who did NOT have a LoM. Until now!

With a Merchant License, you now have NO skill and ability effects when selling cargo, so you can sell it for maximum profit.
This overrides the 50% commission for privateers and navy officers.
So that gives this item a very real and profitable purpose.

However, now that it actually has a second purpose, I returned to @Grey Roger's suggestion so that now you lose your Merchant License again through any Unrespectable Act.
To prevent that from being too much of a nasty surprise, the first time in the game you will only get a warning together with the regular "Tutorial warning".
You don't actually lose it until the second offence.

Does that sound like a good idea? Feedback appreciated!
 
No opinion yet. As far as I am concerned the only reason to have the merchant license is to be able to pay regular wages.
 
Until yesterday, you would have been right.
That has been updated now so that it DOES have a purpose even if you don't have a LoM.

And potentially quite a profitable purpose too!
Especially before you max out your commerce skills and abilities.
 
I think this is also well enough now and we will wait for Feedback after the release to see if it Needs changing
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top