New Laptop, and my short review of Windows 10

[Thagarr]

Back in June I made a post in this thread saying that I had no intention of trying Windows 10, well as you can tell by the thread title, I have changed my mind since then and decided to give it a try. I did not want to derail that other thread with hardware talk, so I created this thread. Partly based on @Armada's correction of my thoughts on 10 having forced adds. I also have friends and family who come to me for computer advice. One of which I had to fix a messed up Windows 10 upgrade for, so I figured I may as well find out as much as I can about it.

Also, as just a bit of background, I was looking around on Newegg.com a few weeks ago parting out components to build myself a new rig. The one I currently have was built in 2008 and had been giving me issues lately, it is well overdue for a replacement. I had been thinking about the 8 core/16 thread I7-5960X, but I decided to look at Skylake. I was all set to build me an I7-6700k Skylake system, I had all the parts I wanted and was just waiting for Newegg to start selling the processor. A week and a half after launch, the 6700k still had not appeared, although the I5-6600 was available, annoying! While I was waiting, I took a look through gaming laptops simply because I hadn’t for a while, and I was curious what all was out there.

The past couple of years MSI has really shot into the lead in gaming laptops, so I took a look at what they had to offer. I took a serious look at the MSI Titan SLI-263, which is just a beast of a system that would put a lot of desktops to shame. Aside from the keyboard, the hardware GPU switch really caught my attention! Being able to choose what hardware you are running has been a serious issue with Intel based integrated graphics. As tempting as it was though, I just couldn't justify spending that kind of cash on a laptop. I am not in to FPS's at all, so I really have no need for an SLI setup. I did a bit more looking and ran across an MSI GT72 Dominator. Which is pretty close to my parts cost for the desktop I was planning. I debated for a while on what I actually wanted to do. I had thought about building a Mini-ATX system to stick in my livingroom. I just have a tough time building a system and not making it as powerful as I possibly can.

I have used my old Toshiba laptop to watch some internet streams on my TV, and that worked out rather well. It is almost as old as my desktop, but has always been crap for gaming. By the time Newegg actually started selling Skylake's, the motherboard I had been looking at was out of stock, and they were only selling 6700k's bundled with certain motherboards. That was a pretty pathetic hardware launch by Intel, 6700k's were available in the rest of the world before the US. I was annoyed, and debated just sticking with what I had. I knew I needed something to run Hearts of Oak on however, so I eventually settled on the MSI GT72 and have been playing with it for the last week or so. I do plan on building a new desktop, however I will now probably wait till 8 core/16 thread CPU's are under $1000.

I must say that I am really quite impressed with this laptop! It is very snappy, thanks to the dual 128 m.2 SSD's and the I7 5700HQ. I also doubled the ram to 32 gig. The first thing I tested was the hardware graphics switch, and it does work as advertized, though it does require a reboot to take effect. The touchpad is also quite impressive and one of the best feeling I have ever experienced on a laptop, though most of the time I have it disabled and use a mouse. While the GTX 970m certainly isn't top of the line, it will be more than adequate for what I am going to be doing for quite some time.

Intel 5600 Integrated GPU 3DMark Firestrike 1.1 Score = 906:

http://www.3dmark.com/3dm/8390641

GTX 970M Firestrike 1.1 Score = 6495:

http://www.3dmark.com/3dm/8390700

Ok enough about the hardware! The following are some of my impressions from my first experiences with Windows 10. I must admit, Windows 10 is much better than I was expecting. It is certainly faster, and you can tell they have cleared out a lot of the useless crap that was slowing windows down for years. I freely admit that I am very biased going in to this little review, and I have already decided that I will be installing Linux once I have gotten fedup enough with windows. While there are many things I don't like, and some that I absolutely hate about Windows 10, I will say this, they did give me the option to turn most of the crap I do not like off.

The first thing I did when the system arrived was to go through and turn off all the add tracking and spying that I could, I also turned off Cortana and removed the Microsoft Store from the task bar and the Start menu. This takes several pages of flipping off options, and of course, all the default apps are set to use Microsoft's own versions that are built in to the operating system. You must go in to settings and change the default programs there, you can no longer do it from inside the program you want to use. Even though I disabled Cortana, it is so integrated into the operating system that the Cortana service is still running in the background taking up 28 meg of memory. You can not turn off all the data collection though, you can only turn it down to basic. So no matter what option that you choose, Windows 10 still send data to Microsoft, and of course they do not tell you exactly what data they are collecting.

I also turned off Microsoft's VERY Annoying “app” that pops up and pushes Microsoft Office constantly. It also pushes it from the Start menu, Microsoft must really be desperate. As with earlier versions of Windows, Microsoft has also tried to integrate it's new Edge browser in to every aspect of the operating system. Photo viewer, Maps and Weather “apps' are all Edge. While they have indeed re-introduced the Start menu, it is really nothing more than a smaller version of Windows 8's charm bar with Live Tiles everywhere. While these my be handy for smart phones or tablets, they really feel out of place on a laptop, and even more so on a desktop.

Microsoft's “security features” are also more restricting than past versions, I couldn't even edit a text config file located in the Program Files folder without activating the Administrator account. While that is easy enough for me to do, it is certainly something a normal user would not easily be able to do. I should be able to easily edit any plane text file for any reason regardless of where it is located on my system. Windows will also not allow me to choose to install “apps” to any drive other than C, though they say that option is coming in the future. You can still use an individual programs install options to install to a different drive directory.

Microsoft also forces out updates on Windows 10 home, whether you want them or not, you are not given a choice to postpone the update until all the bugs have been worked out. From what I have seen though, it will not immediately force a reboot like 7 and 8 tried to do, but it will install updates when you reboot or shut down. On top of that, Microsoft no longer includes a changelog with the updates, so you have absolutely no clue what is included in the update or what has actually been changed! There are other problems that I have with Windows 10, but those are the main ones. I really do not understand why Microsoft refuses to make an actual desktop operating system anymore.


TL/DNR :

I got a new laptop and it is awesome! Windows 10 still sucks, but not quite as bad as 8 if you ignore all the spying and data collection.

 

[Hylie Pistof]

Nice review.

All the data collection stuff certainly is troubling. I'm still of the opinion that winX is just a push back against Linux and Valve.

 

[Thagarr]

Thanks mate, it is actually quite stable so far, it has only crashed on me once over the past couple of weeks. I have yet to run in to "Something Happened", but the laptop of a friend of mine was stuck in the upgrade reboot loop twice. I also had to turn off that OneDrive 'app", it was almost as insistent as the Office one.

I did win my first game of Solitaire, but I don't really care for the redesigned interface or the winning animations.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Interesting indeed. Do you have any experience with Windows 7? How would you say version 10 compares to that?
I've still got that older version and am inclined to stick to it. But I do wonder if I'm wrong to do that.

 

[Armada]

Nice to see you got a chance to try Win10 out, Thagarr. It was very interesting to hear your first-hand impressions.

Regarding the Live Tiles, have you tried unpinning all of them from the Start menu? That will remove that section of the menu altogether.
And of course in the Settings app you can choose to have many of the same folders appear on Start as you get in Windows 7 and older.
Alternatively, there is Start10 for users who prefer the exact same Windows 7 layout, though it is $4.99.

One thing you didn't touch on which I'm curious about: what do you think of the white title bars for desktop apps?
I noticed that Microsoft re-introduced coloured title bars in a recent Insider build, but personally I prefer the white colour scheme, as it stands.

As for privacy, it's certainly good that the user can disable most of the data collection, but it's understandable that some people are concerned about the stuff that is collected regardless.
This is a good article that summarises all the privacy settings in Windows 10 and what you can turn off (you probably know most of this already).
I also read an interesting piece about torrent trackers "banning" Windows 10, and why they're blowing things a bit out of proportion.

Lastly, I will say I've seen a couple of issues myself after upgrading from Win8.1 to 10. Most of them are resolved now and the OS is very stable, but for anyone looking to upgrade, I definitely recommend doing a clean install* after upgrading to minimise the chances of things going wrong. (*Make sure you know your product key first, in case you are asked to provide it!)

 

[Thagarr]

Interesting indeed. Do you have any experience with Windows 7? How would you say version 10 compares to that?
I've still got that older version and am inclined to stick to it. But I do wonder if I'm wrong to do that.

Pieter, yes, I have extensive experience in Windows 7 and so far it is still the best operating system Microsoft has made in my opinion. Although XP was pretty good as well, for it's time. I would suggest that you either try Windows 10 on a friends computer, or go to an electronics store and take a look at it on a demo unit to really get the feel of it and decide if it is something that you would like.

Your hardware would have absolutely no problem handling 10, but as Armada suggests, if you do upgrade, you want to do a clean install after the upgrade.

There are some neat features in Windows 10, one I particularly like are the changing backgrounds on the login screen that will also show time and weather for the current location. The Weather “app” is quite nice really, although you are stuck using Bing's weather radar and maps, it won't let you choose your own. And that really sums up my biggest complaints about what Microsoft has done since XP. They are more concerned about forcing you to come to them for everything than letting you, the consumer, decide what programs you want to run on equipment that you have bought and paid for.

In the late 80's and early 90's Tandy Corporation made the big mistake of trying to force everyone to buy all the software, hardware and supplies from them. They even had their own version of Windows. They tried to pretend they were Apple too. They tried to use the prominence of the Radio Shack brand to force people to buy only Tandy products. At the time the stores were extremely popular in the US and frequented by HAM radio operators all over North America. They had knowledgeable sales people, some of which were HAMS themselves, and stocked good supplies of electronics parts that you could not buy anywhere else in a commercial setting at the time.

Radio Shack just went out of earlier this year, for the past 20 years they were a mere shadow of their former glory. All their stores contained were phones, a bare minimum of electronic supplies and pushy inexperienced sales people that would try and force you to give them your name and address just to buy a pack of batteries. They would then sell all the information they collected to advertising agencies and other businesses. How they were able to keep the stores open as long as they did is beyond me to comprehend. Anyway, I don't mean to give a history lesson, but it just goes to show when you try and force people to do something, it usually doesn't work out they way you intend it too.

Nice to see you got a chance to try Win10 out, Thagarr. It was very interesting to hear your first-hand impressions.

Regarding the Live Tiles, have you tried unpinning all of them from the Start menu? That will remove that section of the menu altogether.
And of course in the Settings app you can choose to have many of the same folders appear on Start as you get in Windows 7 and older.
Alternatively, there is Start10 for users who prefer the exact same Windows 7 layout, though it is $4.99.

Armada, thanks mate, yes, I have unpinned the live tiles and got the menu cut down to a more normal(to me) appearance.

One thing you didn't touch on which I'm curious about: what do you think of the white title bars for desktop apps?
I noticed that Microsoft re-introduced coloured title bars in a recent Insider build, but personally I prefer the white colour scheme, as it stands.

Personally, I do not like the look of the white theme throughout, I really miss the customization that was in XP. With enough time and patience, you could make XP appear any way that you wanted. I remember seeing some really cool Star Trek themes that just looked awesome. At one point, I was actually working on a PA theme that I was going to release here for XP, and then 7, but they changed the way that 7 handled themes and it was just too much of a pain to switch everything over. For that kind of customization now, you have to either pay for third party programs or use Linux. Sure you can still customize some things, but not near what you used to be able to.

As for privacy, it's certainly good that the user can disable most of the data collection, but it's understandable that some people are concerned about the stuff that is collected regardless.
This is a good article that summarises all the privacy settings in Windows 10 and what you can turn off (you probably know most of this already).

Nice article mate, thanks for the link! It's good to have all that in information in one place.

I also read an interesting piece about torrent trackers "banning" Windows 10, and why they're blowing things a bit out of proportion.

Yeah, the whole piracy thing is way overblown and almost laughable at this point. Windows 10 is free for the next 11 months anyway. That does raise the issue of how Microsoft handles updates though. By default, it will use your bandwidth to send out updates to other people, that is something that should require your expressed permission and not be on by default!

Lastly, I will say I've seen a couple of issues myself after upgrading from Win8.1 to 10. Most of them are resolved now and the OS is very stable, but for anyone looking to upgrade, I definitely recommend doing a clean install* after upgrading to minimise the chances of things going wrong. (*Make sure you know your product key first, in case you are asked to provide it!)

I agree completely! Although from what I understand, they recently changed it so that once you are activated after the upgrade, you can do a full install without the product key, but that may change in the future. It is certainly always a good idea to know where your product key is!

 

[Hylie Pistof]

I thought XP was a great operating system too, until I tried Vista. Vista was much better as long as you had the horsepower to carry it. Then came Win7! That is the best system I have tried and is much much better than Win8.1. I have had nothing but trouble so far.

The only thing WinX has to offer me is better gaming performance and DX12. Everything else is a big negative. I will probably go for it after I get the motherboard back and installed just to get rid of Win8.1.

 

[Jelle]

Alternatively, there is Start10 for users who prefer the exact same Windows 7 layout, though it is $4.99.

I removed all the tiles too, but then I ran across this program: StartMenu8 from IObit.
It's pretty good too. It's just as good as the normal win7 one. And ths one is free. You can even customize hiw the startbutton looks!

 

[Robert Nutter]

I still use XP Pro on a day to day basis for certain things...it ain't dead yet!

I love Windows 7...loads of new code, perfectly stable, a good balance of new features and plenty of scalability. Bit disappointed by Win Xp mode (it doesn't even support the GPU!), meaning I have to use VMWare for older stuff, but for the most part I'm not upgrading until it becomes completely obsolete!

NB: Whilst we're on the subject of recommendable operating systems, Apple's answer to Win 7, Snow Leopard, was a completely re-written OS released at the same time, which many professionals still use thanks to its insanely good stability and backward compatibility. Kind of like XP, it doesn't appear to have a use-by date...2009 was a very good year for software! Just a pity both companies lost the plot a bit after that...frankly, I blame smartphones. I still use a Nokia brick as I hate all this streamlined interface tosh Mind, some of the stuff MS have planned is pretty exciting...those transparent screen OS concepts, for one!

 

[Thagarr]

You are not alone, a lot of people refuse to use anything but XP. I would be using Linux exclusively if my old rig hadn't died on me. Snow Leopard was built using Unix/Linux as a foundation, so I am not a bit surprised at the stability. Windows 10 is much better than 8, but all the spying BS is going to be it's downfall. That and the forced updates, plus the fact that Microsoft wont even say what is in the updates anymore.

6 months after release and Windows Explorer is still crashing on me every time I try and view pictures. I should mention that I did my best to remove the forced use of Edge throughout the entire operating system and reverted to the old photo viewer, so that might have something to do with it. Still, it happens when just looking at files too, and I know I am not the only one having an issue. I also agree with the smartphone crap, I have a dumb flip phone for that, and several other reasons.

 

[Talisman]

That and the forced updates, plus the fact that Microsoft wont even say what is in the updates anymore.

Just found where in Windows 10 it lists the updates that have been automatically downloaded by Windows Update. ( why they have hidden this away )


It is in > Settings > Update & Security > Advanced Options > View Update History

See images:

 

[Thagarr]

Thanks mate, yeah, Microsoft doesn't want you to know what updates they are forcing down your throat. I fully understand the need for updates, with all the morons out there trying to find vulnerability's in software to enable them to hack in to systems. What I don't get is why Microsoft now refuses to tell it's customers exactly what it is patching, or what the system updates fix. That can be very vital information if those system fixes effect mission critical programs for businesses. Granted most private consumers aren't going to be effected quite as much, and a lot don't have the slightest clue what would cause a conflict anyway, but Microsoft not giving them the option of finding out what may be causing a conflict certainly isn't helping. Typical corporate thinking, they know more about what their consumers need than their consumers.

What is even more frustrating, is Microsoft still produces these changelogs internally, they simply refuse to release it to the public anymore! I guarantee you that there are hackers out there that know far more about Windows than Microsoft's development team. Keeping this info confidential is only hurting Microsoft's customers. After dealing with this for several months now, I am even more convinced that the next desktop rig I build will be exclusively Linux only.