Included in Build New musket types

[Jack Rackham]

STILL TO DO:

Even if you have enough ammo when receiveing those blade items
there will be no auto switch to hip mode when drawing your blade. Maybe I can add that to the code later on.

Itemsdescribe needed for the blademuskets too.

Also check that blademuskets with bayonets not are sold or found.

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ORIGINAL OPENING POST:

I have found 2 nice new musket models and plan to equip soldiers with them something like

matchlock: 2 first periods,
standard musket: next 2 periods,
bayonet musket: last 2 periods. (I know bayonets were used earlier but this is for game variation)

The matchlock could have some issue if it's raining.
The bayonet musket should turn into a "blade" when fired.

The periods they can appear can be discussed.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

I'd certainly like it! Hopefully @Grey Roger and/or @Hylie Pistof can provide some details on historical accuracy there.

 

[Hylie Pistof]

As far as the earlier periods are concerned, there was a special knife for musketeers. It had a tapered wooden handle that was jammed into the barrel making it a big heavy spear. I have one, but do not know the time frame for their use.

I do know that one of the loading screens in POTC shows the battle where Blackbeard was killed and on the right a musketeer can be seen with a knife jammed into the barrel of his weapon and is about to use it.

 

[Jack Rackham]

I read about an early type of 'bayonet' which was attached to the musket so it couldn't be fired.
The plugged in knife sounds interesting. It can of course be done but will cause a delay after firing before the 'spear' is ready for use.
The bayonet I've got is of a later type. It will be attached to the rifle all the time.

 

[Hylie Pistof]

The knife was only intended to be used when the fighting got too close for reloading to be done safely. This one is a replica of a real one.

 

[Jack Rackham]

Ok, this is the current version:

1) matchlock: 2 first periods,

2) standard musket with/without attached knife: next 2 periods, (Hylie Pistof style)
the knife is removed when firing and attached to the musket when used as a blade.

3) bayonet musket: last 2 periods.
bayonet always attached both when firing (gun) and used as a blade.

all 3: default: shoulder mode
fightmode: if musket charged: musket to hip mode (ready to be fired)

type 2) & 3): if fightmode but musket not charged: to blade mode (musket with bayonet)
after shot: blade mode (musket with bayonet)
sheath blade: shoulder mode (+ knife type 2)

still testing.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Which one of these is the regular musket as we are familiar with now?
Does this mean that the town guards will only get swords in the first two periods to go with the matchlock?

This definitely sounds very cool! I'm hoping it'll add nicely to the historical atmosphere in the game.

 

[Jack Rackham]

Which one of these is the regular musket as we are familiar with now?

Nr 2 is the standard musket. If a character also have this special new Knife they can be used
as a combined weapon. Soldiers (in the 2 middle perids) are meant to be equipped with those 2 weapons.

Does this mean that the town guards will only get swords in the first two periods to go with the matchlock?

Yes. Because in the 2 last periods they'll only get nr 3. A new musket with an always attached bayonet.

Pirate guards are always equipped with pistols. Because it looks weird with them using muskets.
Is this the common opinion? Or do you not agree? Or is there another possibility: Blunderbuss?
I want more opinions on this.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Pirate guards are always equipped with pistols. Because it looks weird with them using muskets.
Is this the common opinion? Or do you not agree? Or is there another possibility: Blunderbuss?
I want more opinions on this.

Aren't pirate guards a bit odd in the first place?
Anyway, I do agree; pistols probably suit them better. A blunderbuss is a bit of a messy weapon, but might be fun.

 

[Levis]

Moving this to the archive cause it's included

 

[Grey Roger]

Wheellock pistols were rare and expensive as the complex mechanism could only only be made by a particularly skilled gunsmith.

But the previously common pistol types, e.g. short pistol and duelling pistol, are now only available from "Golden Age" onwards. The only pistol available in earlier periods is the wheellock. So every cheap crook, random thug and dungeon denizen who is carrying a pistol will be carrying a wheellock. So much for being rare. It is, however, significantly more expensive than the short pistol and duelling pistol, which means it's going to be a nice little money earner when you're collecting them on a regular basis.

True flintlocks didn't appear until the early 17th century, which means the short pistol, duelling pistol and flintlock pistol should probably be available from "Spanish Main" onwards. But their predecessors, snaplocks and snaphances, were around in the mid 16th century and would therefore be appropriate for "Early Explorers" as well. Good luck distinguishing a snaphance from a flintlock at the graphical resolution of PoTC!

So I suggest making the short and duelling pistols available again in "Early Explorers". Wheellocks can then become suitably rare.

The wheellock has accuracy 70 whereas the duelling pistol has only 50 and the short pistol a pitiful 5, which is reasonable - the sort of gunsmith who could make a wheellock mechanism would make a better than average job of the rest of the pistol too. But the wheellock ought to have a much longer reload time; a real one took about a minute to load. (You don't just need to pull back a hammer as with a snaplock, you need to wind the wheel.) That might be a bit harsh for the game, but if a duelling pistol's reload time is 12 then I'd put the wheellock to at least 20.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

So while the wheellock now IS set to be rare, it is still common in the game because the NPCs basically have nothing else available to use instead?

 

[Pieter Boelen]

@Grey Roger: Just to be sure, do you have the latest version of initItems.c and pressed F11?
It was updated a few days ago (currently in the latest zip) and again today (not yet included).
I seem to recall you have been holding off on the latest updates.

 

[Jack Rackham]

There may be more to the new muskets with bayonets in blademode than I have time to fix right now:

1) .... looting enemies: better if those weapons could be switched to
musket + bayonet in shoulder mode.

2) .... should be disabled to buy

3) .... should be disabled to find as randitems or in chests

4) as this is a temporary mode you don't need to sell them or give them to officers

so my "fix" may only have complicated things.

 

[Grey Roger]

I don't have the absolute latest zip installed on my game PC as it was only released late yesterday - while you were releasing that, I was sorting out the "Help the Church" quest.

But an inspection of "initItems.c" using 7-zip on the 22nd July zip update shows that the problem is still there - the short pistol and duelling pistol are restricted to "Golden Age", leaving the wheellock pistol as the only pistol available in "Early Explorers" and "Spanish Main". (At least until you're level 14. Then you get to play with a pair of wheellocks. So, presumably, do the bandits, which means I'll eventually get that for free as well...)

I was holding off on updating while I brought my earlier game of "Francis Drake" to a satisfactory conclusion, with various side quests completed and Jamaica, Cayman and Barbados all under English control ready to enter the 17th century. (It was very nice of Spain to donate some heavy war galleons for this purpose. I renamed one of them Elizabeth Bonaventure, which was another of Drake's real ships and the one in which he raided Cadiz. ) That's done, the savegames from that campaign are archived, and the new installer is now in place along with the 21st July zip update.

 

[Jack Rackham]

Even if matchlock guns were common (cheaper) than wheellocks it's very against game balance to
set the most dangerous gun Arguebuse to be the most common.
But why not set flinlocks back to earlier periods again.

The idea behind this mod is game variation AND more historical accuracy. In that order.

 

[Grey Roger]

It makes sense if you can't buy or randomly find the musket with bayonet attached; you get them as separate items and put them together yourself. But if you've just killed or mugged a soldier carrying a musket with attached bayonet, then that's what you'll take off him. He didn't remove the bayonet for your convenience as a last act before being killed or stunned, and he certainly didn't remove it for you if you took the musket with bayonet from him with a thief's knife. Once you've stolen the musket with bayonet attached, you should presumably then be able to separate them.

There's nothing wrong with handing an officer a musket with bayonet attached, as long as officers have enough intelligence to be able to remove or add the bayonet as appropriate.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

There may be more to the new muskets with bayonets in blademode than I have time to fix right now:

1) .... looting enemies: better if those weapons could be switched to
musket + bayonet in shoulder mode.

2) .... should be disabled to buy

3) .... should be disabled to find as randitems or in chests

4) as this is a temporary mode you don't need to sell them or give them to officers

so my "fix" may only have complicated things.

So.... We need to swap out the "temporary versions" with the normal versions somewhere between the enemies dying and the player looting their stuff?
If you don't have time, who is going to fix this one?

I don't have the absolute latest zip installed on my game PC as it was only released late yesterday - while you were releasing that, I was sorting out the "Help the Church" quest.

And a good thing that is too!

But an inspection of "initItems.c" using 7-zip on the 22nd July zip update shows that the problem is still there - the short pistol and duelling pistol are restricted to "Golden Age", leaving the wheellock pistol as the only pistol available in "Early Explorers" and "Spanish Main". (At least until you're level 14. Then you get to play with a pair of wheellocks. So, presumably, do the bandits, which means I'll eventually get that for free as well...)

I was afraid of that....

I was holding off on updating while I brought my earlier game of "Francis Drake" to a satisfactory conclusion, with various side quests completed and Jamaica, Cayman and Barbados all under English control ready to enter the 17th century. (It was very nice of Spain to donate some heavy war galleons for this purpose. I renamed one of them Elizabeth Bonaventure, which was another of Drake's real ships and the one in which he raided Cadiz. ) That's done, the savegames from that campaign are archived, and the new installer is now in place along with the 21st July zip update.

There is actually nothing preventing you from using your old saves in the current version, other than the globals.c number. Some things may not be initialized entirely correctly, but the game should work fine just the same.
It certainly makes sense to skip some updates if you have no need for them and need to keep your game stable for a while.
Sounds like you had quite an epic playthrough, pretending to the real Francis Drake!

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Even if matchlock guns were common (cheaper) than wheellocks it's very against game balance to
set the most dangerous gun Arguebuse to be the most common.
But why not set flinlocks back to earlier periods again.

The idea behind this mod is game variation AND more historical accuracy. In that order.

If the rare guns are the ONLY guns available, then there isn't much variation.
Grey Roger was suggesting LESS accuracy, but more variation in his prior post as well:

So I suggest making the short and duelling pistols available again in "Early Explorers". Wheellocks can then become suitably rare.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

It makes sense if you can't buy or randomly find the musket with bayonet attached; you get them as separate items and put them together yourself. But if you've just killed or mugged a soldier carrying a musket with attached bayonet, then that's what you'll take off him. He didn't remove the bayonet for your convenience as a last act before being killed or stunned, and he certainly didn't remove it for you if you took the musket with bayonet from him with a thief's knife. Once you've stolen the musket with bayonet attached, you should presumably then be able to separate them.

There's nothing wrong with handing an officer a musket with bayonet attached, as long as officers have enough intelligence to be able to remove or add the bayonet as appropriate.

All true. As long as none of that actually messes up the game.
As I understand it, the "musket with bayonet attached" item is meant to be a temporary one that isn't used in the game, except while a character is actively fighting with it.
That what the game systems have been set up for.