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OSX & Bootcamp QA Tester?

Robert Nutter

Serving Victoria
3D Artist
QA Tester
Provisional
Storm Modder
Hi all,

I know I already have enough on my plate with modelling but I thought my system is perfect for some QA testing if required...I know HoO hopes to eventually be on OSX, so it makes sense to test it on a Bootcamp mac. I know there must be others running bootcamp around here, but I'm more than willing to test if need be :)

My system is by no means blazing fast, probably low to mid level in gaming terms, but it is a dedicated colour grading and decoding machine so is extremely reliable.

Specs:

Drive: 1.02TB SSD ---- Samsung PRO 850 600mb/s+
CPU: Intel i5 2.7ghz ---- Quad
RAM: 12gb ----Crucial 3000mhz
GPU: AMD Radeon 6770M 512mb ---- A serious bottleneck but being an iMac upgrading the graphics is extremely expensive :/
RAID: Zero, 8TB ---- WD Cavier Black
Display: 2540x1440 iMac display and 1080p VGA data screen ---- Calibrated to rec.709 standard
Optical Drive: Superdrive
System: iMac 12,2 mid 2011
OS: Windows 7 Pro x64 and OSX 10.11
DirectX: 11.0
Sound: Apple Core Audio
Keyboard: MSI DS4100 Red Dragon
 
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Hey Robert, interesting, I hadn't really thought about that! It would certainly be good to get a wide a variety as possible in both hardware and software. Since you already have access to the Dev forum, go ahead and download the latest demo when you get the chance and post a review in that thread, thanks mate! :onya
 
Some unfortunate news.

I can't get beyond 2 seconds into the menu screen before a CTD stops it in its tracks. First a freeze then a few seconds later it gives me the dreaded horizontal coloured lines within the window, at which point I have to ctrl alt del it...I considered that this kind of thing is normally bought on by a hardware incompatibility or display drivers messing about (since the engine itself boots up just fine, as does the menu...initially). I've tried all different settings/compatibility and disabling firewall etc, things that normally break games, but nothing works...I think it's almost certainly an isolated issue with my system...or me :modding but could be worth checking out?
 
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That's unfortunate, the last experience I have with Apple computers was back on the Apple IIe, so I am not going to be much help here. I will keep it in mind when I post bugs to the bug tracker, that won't be for a few days though. Thanks for trying mate.
 
Nice machines those. Wouldn't trust it much with something like POTC though...:cheeky

No worries, I'll carry on trying things as you never know...if I get lucky I'll stick a review up :) The BM works magnificently...better than vanilla, so I have that I can be working on getting models into in the meantime.
 
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Astonishingly, it's working with Steam closed...I know Unity has some vague ties with the platform, so maybe something's going on under the bonnet there? I didn't even think to close it before when I tried as it seems a bit random...

Either way, I can have a review up by tomorrow hopefully :onya
 
Ok, here's my review; ignore me if I'm bringing up stuff that's known, I'm simply reporting my personal experience so far. I'm also relatively new to gaming from a technical perspective so go easy on me if I'm spouting rubbish! I'll also give some opinions; these are by no means me trying to change the game; I just know input is always helpful so take it or leave it ;)

Contextual Opinion

Overall, I'm loving the direction that's been taken with this game. The interface is delicious, the designs and decisions that have made are well informed, and I can already tell it's going to be a sandbox worthy of many, many hours exploration (and hopefully development too!)

Performance

I'm sorry to say that the game as a whole runs slow on anything above the absolute minimum. I'm running on low at 720p and I'm getting 31fps constant, which is great. However, any higher settings and it barely hits 10-15, so there's a HUGE gap between using Low and Medium and 720 and 1080. My system's slow but not that slow. To put that into perspective (I know it's extremely ignorant to compare this to other games, but I feel in this case it's pertinent...) I'm running TW: Rome 2 at around 30fps with everything turned up (including Res) and that's a pretty demanding game when it comes to land battles...I have other games too which use Unity that run surprisingly well, so I think the fact it's Windows on a Mac can help with resource efficiency somehow, despite my slow GPU...possibly some more hardware-specific optimization could help HoO here? I'm also having random black-outs both when taking command and when firing my guns. That said, I did read somewhere that occasional black-outs are known and there on purpose so that could be intentional.

On a lighter stance, the game loads absolutely instantly; probably my SSD making short work of it, but I haven't even seen any loading screens yet!

Side note: For those who missed the convo above, I also had an issue running alongside Steam. This is probably unique to my system but could be worth investigating to ensure it's not a deeper issue?

Graphics

Bearing in mind I'm on LOW...

Graphics are gorgeous. Seriously, on Hi-Res and Fantastic I can imagine they're almost motion picture good. The reflections, the shadows, even the textures on Low are nice. However, i'm having some sort of deep anti aliasing going on. Everything's super soft even at 720p (which really shouldn't be on this screen)...is this intentional? If so, it may be good to have an option to turn off (I'm sure this is already being considered) as I have a feeling it could be responsible for the slow-down if so.

Secondly, there's some kind of camera mesh going on (screenshot below)...like black dots/dirt moving with the camera over all the textures. I initially thought this was intentional to give it a 'gritty' look, but seeing other screenshots I don't think it is...

1.jpg
You can see it on the hills quite clearly, though a screenshot doesn't really show the movement. It's almost like a lens filter for certain textures. Is this intentional?

Finally, the UI is hiding parameters...ie I get no player options, just the drop-down and upon selection they disappear again. It all works, it's just invisible. :cheeky Also, my Options menu doesn't open despite not being greyed out.

Sound


I'm guessing sound is in early stages as I don't have any save the confirmation noise on the interface.

Character/Ship

Character creation is a great addition; Saints Row IV move over! It's full and enjoyable...with more clothing options it'll be a staple of the game. The shadowing is a little odd on the naked skin, but I'm guessing shaders are still in dev for that. Dynamics and kinetics are pretty spot on; the jump is a little bit much for a realistic game, but overall it's great fun!

The vessel is beautifully modeled; kudos to whoever made her :onya

Flags are a little wacky, which I'm sure is known. She's also grounded on the sea bed which no doubt is also known. Ship texturing is sublime, though I'm not sure it's responding as well as it could to the environment...do we have HDR on the ship model? As the horizon is pretty super but objects seem somewhat flat. Could again be because I'm on low...

Dynamically, she feels a little railed and over-responsive to sail...I know this is being worked on as we speak so I won't go into any more detail here.

Camera Angles

This is probably my only real gripe with the game so far. I get the feeling we have a wider field of view than we really need.
2.jpg

At this angle she goes a little distorted; the masts and sails squash, the stern huge but the rest of the hull tiny. If I move the camera, whatever is closer will then become huge. You can also see it in my screenshot above this one...the hut on screen-left is distorted quite badly. All games have it I know, but it can be unrealistic. It hurt some realistic aspects of Ship Simulator 2006 for me as ships aren't meant to be distorted, and I'm concerned it could be the case here. Personally I'd rather her be close. Though if this is an artistic decision, I'm not arguing...it certainly has its merits :yes Possibly include as a video option?

Gameplay
While it did take me a while to work out how to board the ship :facepalm, once I worked it out the keys were a pleasure to work with. What is the end-game plan with camera movement? Movement keys were standard so no problems there, and I especially liked how streamlined yet effective the interface is...especially the map/wheel HUD.

There's just once tiny thing I couldn't get my head round. When I tried quitting, it would give me the quit menu then the take command menu and I'd end up in an endless cycle of pressing 'yes'...


Overall
This was a fairly comprehensive review, I know. And I hope I haven't alienated anyone being so blunt. :aar Thing is, I really love what's already been done with HoO and i'd rather be honest than beat the bush as I feel it's important it be eventually optimized for OSX... and making it fit the Apple hardware drivers is probably a first step towards that. It's a seriously fun game, even at this stage and I have utter respect for everyone working on it. If we keep sailing on the same heading I'm confident it'll be something truly special. I'm happy to provide more info/screenshots if needed and of course any logs I can help with.

Thanks for giving me the opportunity to provide my thoughts :thumbs1
 
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Very nice writeup mate, thanks! I have added you to the QA group and will also invite you into the PM. Btw, being blunt is the best way to get the information across. :onya

Just a few responses to some of your questions :

Hopefully, eventually we will have native Linux and Mac versions that don't require an interpretation layer. 31 FPS, even on low, is better than I was expecting. AA is disabled in the current demo, so that may be where some of your issues are coming from, possibly even contributing to the performance issues you mentioned.

What your seeing I believe in that first screen shot are trees in the distance on the mountains, if you take a look through the December demo release thread, you can see the effect I am referring to more clearly.

At the moment, the sailing is all arcade, realistic sailing will come later. JohnSilver is working on a brand new script for camera controls for first person view on board ship, I am sure the overhead view will be adjusted as development continues as well.

The quitting thing is a known issue, I believe and should be fixed in the next demo. I will double check that though.
 
Thanks, I didn't realize there was a QA group but cheers for that too! :onya

That is probably it then! AA kills my machine no matter what game it's on. Weirdly, it eats complex particles for breakfast...just hates AA

Regarding the trees; I don't think it is trees I'm seeing to be honest. What I'm getting is tiny semi-opaque black dots...millions of them...looks like someone's kicked mud onto the lens then left it to dry. It's on the grass, sky and mountains (though mostly the mountains and grass)...as I said, I don't think the screenshot shows it but I'm fairly sure my trees are fine from what I've posted

Mind you, for an arcade mode it's pretty decent anyway!

That's good. It's a pretty hilarious issue to be fair! :)
 
An image of running in full specs...6FPS!...I can't get beyond the menu and when I do, it's so slow it's unplayable. But boy does it look gorgeous in ultra HD!
3.jpg
 
The AA is my fault. It didn't have any and I complained about what it did to the rigging. So John Silver gave it some. Squeaky wheel and all that.

This game engine eats GPUs for lunch. I have a 290X at stock clocks and it is usually running flat out and my frame rate sometims drops into the 24-30 fps range.
 
I agree it's pretty horrific what happens to rigging with lower res. Ever try playing an Empire: Total War sea battle on anything less than HD with AA off?

It's heartbreaking...:eek:

But either way an option needs to be included eventually for scaling purposes as I think it's stealing about 15fps from me :D. Lunch aside, it eats my half gig Radeon Mobile chip for breakfast and elevensies too. It doesn't know what hit it...
 
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