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Pirate Film Music

Discussion in 'The Blind Parrot' started by Pieter Boelen, Dec 8, 2007.

  1. Pieter Boelen

    Pieter Boelen (Not So) Old Seadog Staff Member Administrator Storm Modder Hearts of Oak Donator

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    I have made extended versions of all the PotC soundtracks based on stuff I found on the internet. Download them all here:

    <a href="http://www.s31clan.com/privateftps/pietersmods/others/potc1_extended.zip" target="_blank">Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl</a> (88,6 MB)
    <a href="http://www.s31clan.com/privateftps/pietersmods/others/potc2_extended.zip" target="_blank">Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest</a> (81,3 MB)
    <a href="http://www.s31clan.com/privateftps/pietersmods/others/potc3_extended.zip" target="_blank">Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End</a> (80,4 MB)
     
  2. DAS123

    DAS123 Fleet Admiral

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    You were about a day too late, i just, JUST ordered the Pirates of the caribbean soundtrack treasures for $64.00! I ordered it for just the few songs that werent on there, but this one also has some new ones. Thanks Pieter, for providing these, i express my deepest thanks. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="icon_wink.gif" />
     
  3. Pieter Boelen

    Pieter Boelen (Not So) Old Seadog Staff Member Administrator Storm Modder Hearts of Oak Donator

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    I'm sorry about that. The tracks from the Soundtrack Treasures are also in my files. Those are some of the files I used. I didn't use any of the remixes though. I think they're stupid. Realy stupid.
     
  4. DAS123

    DAS123 Fleet Admiral

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    <!--quoteo(post=224953:date=Dec 8 2007, 03:12 PM:name=Pieter Boelen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pieter Boelen @ Dec 8 2007, 03:12 PM) [snapback]224953[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm sorry about that. The tracks from the Soundtrack Treasures are also in my files. Those are some of the files I used. I didn't use any of the remixes though. I think they're stupid. Realy stupid.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Yep, they suck bad. So i noticed you missed one song. Its called Pirates, One Day. It is track one on the 4th CD of the collection. You know the one with all of the missing songs. Thats a nice one. Do you have it by chance?
     
  5. Pieter Boelen

    Pieter Boelen (Not So) Old Seadog Staff Member Administrator Storm Modder Hearts of Oak Donator

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    I didn't miss it. It's track 23 on The Curse of the Black Pearl: Pirates, Day One, 4:56AM. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":yes" border="0" alt="yes.gif" />
     
  6. DAS123

    DAS123 Fleet Admiral

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    <!--quoteo(post=224958:date=Dec 8 2007, 03:35 PM:name=Pieter Boelen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pieter Boelen @ Dec 8 2007, 03:35 PM) [snapback]224958[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I didn't miss it. It's track 23 on The Curse of the Black Pearl: Pirates, Day One, 4:56AM. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":yes" border="0" alt="yes.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Sorry to keep you, I just wish there was a track that had the death of Jones music, and the Sparrow, Swann parachute flight in it. Thats where he says "Come on!" And shoots the rope, and the monkey jumps on with him as the Dutchman spinns down the whirlpool.
     
  7. Pieter Boelen

    Pieter Boelen (Not So) Old Seadog Staff Member Administrator Storm Modder Hearts of Oak Donator

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    At World's End, track 18 "Marry Me" at 2:37. Do you mean that? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/whistling.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":wp" border="0" alt="whistling.gif" />
     
  8. DAS123

    DAS123 Fleet Admiral

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    <!--quoteo(post=224962:date=Dec 8 2007, 03:51 PM:name=Pieter Boelen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pieter Boelen @ Dec 8 2007, 03:51 PM) [snapback]224962[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->At World's End, track 18 "Marry Me" at 2:37. Do you mean that? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/whistling.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":wp" border="0" alt="whistling.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Yeah, i just went through that, that's part of it I wanted. There is another part where Jone's heart is stabbed, and he twitches, with that low music playing in the background. I think a variation of the Calypso theme.
     
  9. DAS123

    DAS123 Fleet Admiral

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    Pieter, we should use this page to discuss possible music cues for our script...if you think that is a good idea.


    I think that the part from "The Heart of Davy Jones" 1:58- the end of the song could possibly be good for the part where the Dutchman turns back to fight all on her own. That part is a lighter version of the theme from "At wits end" 5:18-6:06. I think that all of the Davy Jones themes in here should be lighter than that of the later movies where Jones is torn by love, anger, and sadness. Consequently it would be heavier there.

    Also the taking of Batavia by Mercer and EITC Marines could use the song "Just Good Business" I can completely see that being the music for it. All of the action contained, like a musket fire-fight in the jungle, then the actual taking of the town. That part from 1:36 where the REALLLY heavy Brass starts playing can be where Mercer is actually leading the Marines through the gates of the town, where the unexpectant guards had no idea this would happen. Pieter at this point you would disagree because it might make the dutch look like fools (when in fact they AREN'T) they were just caught unawares that can happen to anyone, i think the term is "Blitz-attack". We should have Mercer with a group of marines march up the battlements throwing enemy soldiers over the battlements and fighting officers in sword duels. Then they will proceed to block off the harbors so the surviving garrison cant escape by sea. Then Mercer with the rest of the marines will head to the Army leaders quarters where mercer will fight an epic sword fight, but will eventually disarm the general, and execute him. Then he would proceed to capture the governor. And rout the remaining troops. This song it PERFECT, it is absolutely EXPLODING WITH ACTION. It nearly blew my IPOD speakers clear out of my ears. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/w00t.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":woot" border="0" alt="w00t.gif" />

    Also that "Lord Cutler Beckett" song can be used more in this movie.

    Also pieter listen to the end credits of POTC DMC from 6:24 to the end, you will hear first Davy Jones organ as we are used to it, but then you will hear another verse with more flourishes in it. 6:53 i believe 'tis. I think it is interesting why they didnt use it, it sounds very eerie though. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="xD:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" />

    There's what i have, i will listen to other songs to see what other ideas pop into my head.
     
  10. Pieter Boelen

    Pieter Boelen (Not So) Old Seadog Staff Member Administrator Storm Modder Hearts of Oak Donator

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    We could discuss the music for our film here. But since I am a big fan of movie-music, especially orchestral movie-music as written by John Williams and the likes, I warn you that this will probably be one helluva discussion. I am not so very fond of Hans Zimmer. He can write some nice stuff sure enough, but so far he has failed to truly impress me like many other composers have been able to. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/whistling.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":wp" border="0" alt="whistling.gif" />

    Beware of my longer reply later... <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":rolleyes:" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" />
     
  11. Pieter Boelen

    Pieter Boelen (Not So) Old Seadog Staff Member Administrator Storm Modder Hearts of Oak Donator

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    Very well then. Here we go. Please note that I do not mean any of this as offensive. It's just my personal opinion that is most likely to be quite contrary to your own. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/whistling.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":wp" border="0" alt="whistling.gif" />

    I'll start with telling a little story. I've been a film music fan since before the release of the first PotC film and John Williams (Star Wars, Indiana Jones, Jaws, Jurassic Park, Harry Potter, etc.) has always been my favourite composer. When I first watched PotC, I wasn't all that impressed with the music, but I got it anyway and I ended up liking it a lot. I even considered it one of the best soundtracks written for a movie. Then a couple of years later I was fortunate enough to find the CD to Cutthroat Island in a store in England and, having read many raving reviews of it on the internet, decided to buy it. That put my opinion on the music for PotC firmly into perspective. The film "Cutthroat Island" is not quite as bad as it's made out to be, but the music is absolutely amazing. On the other hand, the first PotC film is absolutely amazing, but the music is just OK. It's got some good parts and is quite enjoyable, but not all that impressive compared to Cutthroat Island as far as I'm concerned.

    I personally think the best composers for film are (or were):
    - John Williams (Star Wars, Indiana Jones, Jaws, Jurassic Park, Harry Potter, Superman)
    - Jerry Goldsmith (Air Force One, Rambo, First Knight, Mulan, The Mummy, Star Trek
    - Basil Poledouris (Conan the Barbarian, The Hunt for Red October, Lonesome Dove, Quigley Down Under, Robocop, Starship Troopers)
    - Alan Silvestri (Back to the Future, Van Helsing, The Mummy Returns, Judge Dredd)
    - James Newton Howard (Atlantis: The Lost Empire, Dinosaur, Hidalgo, King Kong, Waterworld)
    - John Debney (Cutthroat Island, Lair (computer game))
    - David Arnold (Independence Day, Stargate, Last of the Dogmen, Godzilla)
    - Harry Gregson-Williams (Kingdom of Heaven, Shrek, Sinbad: Legend of the Seven Seas)

    Originally Alan Silvestri was set to compose the music for Pirates of the Caribbean and I now find it most unfortunate that he didn't do it. His Back to the Future, The Mummy Returns and Van Helsing prove that he is very capable of writing big action-adventure music with good themes and with proper use of orchestra. Klaus Badelt and Hans Zimmer, on the other hand, have got a completely different way of writing music. They make much less use of orchestra and are, arguably, more modern, which I don't think fits with a pirate film all that well. Especially not with music as heard in Moonlight Serenade (PotC 1 - trackname from my extended version; it's called Swords Crossed on the original CD) and The Kraken (PotC 2). Especially The Kraken really took me out of the scene and put me into the theater, which is really what film music is NOT supposed to do.

    All this being said, I do think there's plenty of good stuff written for the PotC films. The music for Jack's Entrance in PotC 1 works very well indeed. It's a shame it is now used EVERY TIME Jack enters the movie. I'd rather have something new for Jack's entrance. The action music for PotC 1 is really enjoyable and engaging. The <i>He's a Pirate</i> main theme is also good fun, though not entirely piratey-sounding. Jack Sparrow's theme for DMC is really quite good and does illustrate the quirky-ness of the character well. Davy Jones's Theme is also very good. <i>Two Hornpipes (Tortuga)</i> actually sounds like it belongs in the time period and is good fun (not written by Hans Zimmer though). <i>Wheel of Fortune</i> is a good fun action track. The "love theme" for AWE sounds very nice, though it somehow does sound very familiar. As if Hans Zimmer just wrote the word "romantic" in notes. <i>Up Is Down</i> is as far as I'm concerned the best action track on the AWE soundtrack. VERY good fun. I wished the rest of the action music was similar to this.

    On the other hand, I find a lot of the music is either overly dramatic, inappropriate or weird. The low male choir in <i>Hello Beastie</i> feels really out-of-place to me, because I've heard that plenty of times before is scores like Crimson Time and The Rock. I don't like it one bit in a pirate film. <i>The Kraken</i> sounds too much like hard rock to feel at home in a pirate movie. <i>Parlay</i> is fun, but sounds like a western. Which is intentional, but weird. <i>Multiple Jacks</i> is REALLY weird. Of course it makes sense in the context of the film, but I don't think there's much remotely piratey about it. Of course you could argue that it is "original" or "modern", but it's not really my cup of tea.

    Now that I've made clear what I think of the music for the current PotC films, let's move on to what I think about the music for our PotC film. Ideally I'd just have Alan Silvestri rewrite the music for ALL pirate films, but that is a bit unrealistic. A certain sound has been established and I suppose we should stick to that. At least somewhat. However, I really DO want the music to sound appropriately piratey with heroic brass fanfares, fun woodwinds (<i>Up Is Down!</i>) and nice seafaring music and I really DON'T want music that sounds either overly dramatic, inappropriate (too modern) or just weird or any combination of those. I think it should be a healthy mix between the kind of music established in older pirate films such as Cutthroat Island and even The Sea Hawk and Peter Blood which make proper use of orchestra and the more modern modern influence as heard in the PotC films.

    Also I really don't like the practice of re-using music. Of course there should be themes; that is a MUST. But in DMC and AWE many times I heard actual re-used music. I heard <i>The Black Pearl Gives Chase</i> (Barbossa is Hungry on the original soundtrack) in the finale of DMC. I heard some of the CotBP fight music in <i>Wheel of Fortune</i> (DMC) and <i>Destruction of the Endeavour</i> (AWE: first half of I Don't Think Now Is The Best Time on the original soundtrack). And the music for Jack's entrance is now used every time Jack enters the film. Of course it is re-recordings, which IS better than an ordinary cut-and-paste job, but I'd still rather have NEW music. To me there's a main difference between using themes and re-using music. Using themes is something that SHOULD be done and re-using music is something that SHOULDN'T be done. I've been hearing some conflicting information on how much music Hans Zimmer wrote for AWE. Somewhere he said he wrote 1,5 hour of music (then what was used for the other 1,5 hours of the film?) and elsewhere he said he wrote 5 hours of music for AWE (then what happened to the unused 1,5 hours?). Very strange. And why are there two suites of the Beckett theme (Lord Cutler Beckett and Just Good Business) when the theme is hardly used in any of the films and the music heard in these suites is for the most part nowhere to be found in the films?

    Obviously I'm rather critical, so we'll have some nice discussion ahead of us. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/whistling.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":wp" border="0" alt="whistling.gif" />
     
  12. Pieter Boelen

    Pieter Boelen (Not So) Old Seadog Staff Member Administrator Storm Modder Hearts of Oak Donator

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    As for the attack on Batavia: My original idea was that Jack causes a war between the EITC and the Dutch VOC, which would turn out being the mark he left on Beckett. The reason is that the VOC is the main trading company in Indonesia and is much more powerful at the time than the EITC. So Beckett loses a lot of ships, men and money this way. Therefore I would expect the EITC to LOSE the fight for Batavia. The way you describe it though is as if they would very much win the fight.

    These are my thoughts:
    Jack sets up the fight and makes it seem like a good opportunity for the EITC. Then he goes to Batavia and tells the Dutch of the upcoming attack. Then we get the siege of Batavia. The EITC soldiers manage to get into the town quite easily (similar to what you describe), but then they are ambushed by the Dutch and eventually the Dutch win. Then the Dutch fleet chases the EITC fleet and sinks many ships. This is seen by Jack from the top of Batavia city. Jack then goes to the beach to leave Indonesia as well, but finds that his ship is being burnt and sunk by Nathaniel Edwards. Jack says "YOU?" and Edwards replies "I am realy sorry about this, Jack. I truly am.", echoing what Jack said to Edwards when Jack captured Edwards and turned pirate. Edwards and Jack are on different sides, but still friendly. Jack let Edwards go after turning pirate and now Edwards lets Jack go. Jack is alone on the beach in the dark, his ship has been burnt and sunk and he swears he will get his ship back even if it's the last thing he does. He tries and raise the Wench from the bottom of the sea, almost drowns and meets Davy Jones. Davy raises the rechristened Black Pearl, but Jack is caught in the middle of the EITC fleet's escape from Indonesia. So we then have the EITC fleet being chased by the VOC fleet and Jack has to escape with the Pearl.
     
  13. DAS123

    DAS123 Fleet Admiral

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    You bet we will! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="xD:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" />

    Firstly I DO think that John Williams and many other composers you have posted are great. John Williams though, he is good, but i hate all of those weird out of place sounds he intertwines into his action music. (Most Notably Starwars). He will sometimes have that little tingling triangle in some part or the sound of a spoon down an old wash wringer. It was great for starwars, but what happened in starwars should have stayed with starwars.

    Alan Silvestri had some very stunning music in Van Helsing, but I think he did a little crappy in Star Trek. If you want, in my opinion, THE best sci-fi composer in history, it is Bear McCreary who composes music for the new Sci-fi drama Battlestar Galactica Re-imagined. Check out this link : <a href="http://www.bearmccreary.com/blog/?p=201#more-201" target="_blank">http://www.bearmccreary.com/blog/?p=201#more-201</a> . The Pics are a little gay, but check out "Storming New Caprica" #4, or Battlestar Sonatica #11. Storming New Caprica is EXPLODING with his favorite instrument the Taiko drum. But thats about all of the sci-fi music i know.

    And by the way, Hans Zimmer, i hate to say, is a bit of a hack. He has a few co-composers under his wing that wrote many of the songs. Also Hans didnt write the music for COtBP, Klaus Badelt did, Hans Zimmer just helped. Then in DMC Zimmer put on the gloves and began writing music of his own, with the help of all of the other co-composers. But in all ending, I like his music, especially his Davy Jones themes which i have learned to play on piano, the most challenging piece has to be his "Davy Jones plays his organ" piece. Try this link: <a href="http://www.musicnotes.com/sheetmusic/mtd.asp?ppn=MN0056945" target="_blank">http://www.musicnotes.com/sheetmusic/mtd.asp?ppn=MN0056945</a> . You might have to download musicnotes player, dont worry its free, and takes up like 2 kb of space on your system. That is very difficult, you can see just from the sample. I wouldnt say he is entirely bad. Also i have never seen most of the older pirating movies, i have seen Treasure Island (The 70s one i think). And a couple of episodes from Horatio Hornblower, I have also seen the old Mutiny on the Bounty, and i have seen Master and Commander. Not read any of the books though. I also think that Hans battle music is WAAAAY to intense and layered; it gives me a headache, as young as i am, to listen to "I dont think nows the time" and another action packed sequence.

    Harry Greg-Williams is a little too...undertoned for my liking. His music is usually quiet and simple (Kingdom of Heaven). Shrek does have some original music, but a lot of it is music composed by others (That Techno theme upon entering Far Far Away city). So he is not as talented as i like.

    I agree where you say that modern music doesnt fit well in a pirates film. That they have a problem with that can be addressed. Also "The Kracken" is so full of shit i cant see straight after listening to it. That is way to synthesized, and uses those out of place rock themes. (A base guitar can be heard in the background). Thats like using harpsichord in Mission Impossible.

    Did you happen to read my post above about possible music cues that i would think would work well? If not you should, because i listened long and hard to find possible cues.

    Yes, you were right, we will be going back and forth about best composers for a while. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />
     
  14. DAS123

    DAS123 Fleet Admiral

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    And please if your harddrives can manage it download the music collections so if we say "Heart of Davy Jones 1:22" You wont be lost and will have it on hand to give an opinion.
     
  15. Pieter Boelen

    Pieter Boelen (Not So) Old Seadog Staff Member Administrator Storm Modder Hearts of Oak Donator

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    <!--quoteo(post=225010:date=Dec 9 2007, 02:38 PM:name=Mercer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mercer @ Dec 9 2007, 02:38 PM) [snapback]225010[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Firstly I DO think that John Williams and many other composers you have posted are great. John Williams though, he is good, but i hate all of those weird out of place sounds he intertwines into his action music. (Most Notably Starwars). He will sometimes have that little tingling triangle in some part or the sound of a spoon down an old wash wringer. It was great for starwars, but what happened in starwars should have stayed with starwars.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Weird sounds in Star Wars? Could you give some examples on where to find them? It's just "ordinary" orchestral music as far as I know. And I've listened to it quite a lot. Especially Star Wars IV and V have got no non-orchestral parts in them at all. There's a little synth in Episode VI and the prequels, but hardly much.

    <!--quoteo(post=225010:date=Dec 9 2007, 02:38 PM:name=Mercer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mercer @ Dec 9 2007, 02:38 PM) [snapback]225010[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Alan Silvestri had some very stunning music in Van Helsing, but I think he did a little crappy in Star Trek.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->What are you talking about? Alan Silvestri wrote no music for Star Trek. Jerry Goldsmith did. And James Horner. And also Leonard Rosenman, Cliff Eidelman and Dennis McCarthy. Jerry Goldsmith used a lot of weird digital sounds and I don't really like that all that much, but his orchestral moments are brilliant (<i>The Enterprise!</i> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/piratesing.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":shock" border="0" alt="piratesing.gif" /> ). And in the case of science-fiction movies like Star Trek, I don't mind computer-sounds that much.

    <!--quoteo(post=225010:date=Dec 9 2007, 02:38 PM:name=Mercer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mercer @ Dec 9 2007, 02:38 PM) [snapback]225010[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Also i have never seen most of the older pirating movies, i have seen Treasure Island (The 70s one i think). And a couple of episodes from Horatio Hornblower, I have also seen the old Mutiny on the Bounty, and i have seen Master and Commander. Not read any of the books though. I also think that Hans battle music is WAAAAY to intense and layered; it gives me a headache, as young as i am, to listen to "I dont think nows the time" and another action packed sequence.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I haven't seen many pirate movies either. I wasn't all that impressed with the music to Treasure Island. It works, but is nothing I'd listen to away from the movie. Same for the 1935 Mutiny on the Bounty. Also the music for Master and Commander works well in the film, but is not really interesting on its own. And it's also really NOT piratey music.

    As far as REALLY good piratey music is concerned you should check out The Sea Hawk, Captain Blood, the 1962 Mutiny on the Bounty and ESPECIALLY Cutthroat Island. I'll see if I can upload some of it for you.

    <!--quoteo(post=225010:date=Dec 9 2007, 02:38 PM:name=Mercer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mercer @ Dec 9 2007, 02:38 PM) [snapback]225010[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I also think that Hans battle music is WAAAAY to intense and layered; it gives me a headache, as young as i am, to listen to "I dont think nows the time" and another action packed sequence.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I don't mind intense and layered music, but I much prefer <i>The Battle</i> from Cutthroat Island. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheeky" border="0" alt="icon_mrgreen1.gif" />

    <!--quoteo(post=225010:date=Dec 9 2007, 02:38 PM:name=Mercer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mercer @ Dec 9 2007, 02:38 PM) [snapback]225010[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Harry Greg-Williams is a little too...undertoned for my liking. His music is usually quiet and simple (Kingdom of Heaven). Shrek does have some original music, but a lot of it is music composed by others (That Techno theme upon entering Far Far Away city). So he is not as talented as i like.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Kingdom of Heaven is pretty subtle. You should try Sinbad: Legend of the Seven Seas. Now THAT one is just plain good piratey fun! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/w00t.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":woot" border="0" alt="w00t.gif" />

    <!--quoteo(post=225010:date=Dec 9 2007, 02:38 PM:name=Mercer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mercer @ Dec 9 2007, 02:38 PM) [snapback]225010[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Did you happen to read my post above about possible music cues that i would think would work well? If not you should, because i listened long and hard to find possible cues.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I had a look at it, but I would prefer mostly new music in the film. I do think some of the themes should be used, especially the EITC/Cutler Beckett theme. That was <i>waaay</i> underused. And also Davy Jones' theme should be different in our film. Of course there'd only be the Jack-Davy conversation scene and the fight involving the Dutchman, so we wouldn't really need that much of Davy Jones' theme in there. We DO need a lot of Jack's theme and some heroic piratey stuff. And perhaps a theme for Nathaniel Edwards. And also for the French pirate. And some nice Spanish-influenced music in Mexico (think The Mask of Zorro) and some jungley stuff for the search for the Mayan pyramid.
     
  16. Pieter Boelen

    Pieter Boelen (Not So) Old Seadog Staff Member Administrator Storm Modder Hearts of Oak Donator

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    I uploaded a whole bunch of piratey music tracks. I am just posting these for reference sake so that you'll all know what has been written for pirate movies in the past. Hopefully this will allow us to discuss what we do and don't like about the various piratey scores.

    <a href="http://pafiles.com/potc/Pieter%20Pirate%20Music/Captain%20Blood/" target="_blank"><b>Captain Blood by Erich Wolfgang Korngold (1935)</b></a>
    The first real pirate film with the first real pirate score. This still defines the sound for pirate films.

    <a href="http://pafiles.com/potc/Pieter%20Pirate%20Music/The%20Sea%20Hawk/" target="_blank"><b>The Sea Hawk by Erich Wolfgang Korngold (1940)</b></a>
    This one is more well-known and defined the pirate sound even further.

    <a href="http://pafiles.com/potc/Pieter%20Pirate%20Music/Atlantis%20-%20The%20Lost%20Continent/" target="_blank"><b>Atlantis: The Lost Continent by Russel Garcia (1961)</b></a>
    Not really piratey, but the main theme has the same heroic and old-fashioned sound as heard in many pirate films.

    <a href="http://pafiles.com/potc/Pieter%20Pirate%20Music/The%20Plymouth%20Adventure/" target="_blank"><b>The Plymouth Adventure by Miklós Rósza (1952)</b></a>
    This film does involve sailing and as such has some seafaring music. No pirates though.

    <a href="http://pafiles.com/potc/Pieter%20Pirate%20Music/The%207th%20Voyage%20of%20Sinbad/" target="_blank"><b>The 7th Voyage of Sinbad by Bernard Herrmann (1958)</b></a>
    Might be considered piratey, but definitly IS old-fashioned-like.

    <a href="http://pafiles.com/potc/Pieter%20Pirate%20Music/Mutiny%20on%20the%20Bounty/" target="_blank"><b>Mutiny on the Bounty by Bronislau Kaper (1962)</b></a>
    The first three tracks of this one are REALLY good. I like the main theme as heard in the first half of track 2, the cheerful sailor-like port music as heard in the second half and especially the heroic "setting sail" music as heard in the third track. This is truly seaworthy music at its best!

    <a href="http://pafiles.com/potc/Pieter%20Pirate%20Music/The%20Golden%20Voyage%20of%20Sinbad/" target="_blank"><b>The Golden Voyage of Sinbad by Miklós Rósza (1974)</b></a>
    Some more not-so-piratey music by the famous Miklós Rósza.

    <a href="http://pafiles.com/potc/Pieter%20Pirate%20Music/Jaws/" target="_blank"><b>Jaws by John Williams (1975)</b></a>
    This contains some seafaring and piratey music in the style of Erich Wolfgang Korngold.

    <a href="http://pafiles.com/potc/Pieter%20Pirate%20Music/Swashbuckler/" target="_blank"><b>Swashbuckler by John Addison (1976)</b></a>
    A not-so-well-know pirate score, but interesting nonetheless.

    <a href="http://pafiles.com/potc/Pieter%20Pirate%20Music/Star%20Trek%20I%20-%20The%20Motion%20Picture/" target="_blank"><b>Star Trek I: The Motion Picture by Jerry Goldsmith (1979)</b></a>
    A completely non-piratey film, but this alternate track does sound very similar to the seafaring music much heard in many pirate movies. Jerry Goldsmith associated the big spaceship Enterprise with the big sailing vessels of old.

    <a href="http://pafiles.com/potc/Pieter%20Pirate%20Music/Hook/" target="_blank"><b>Hook by John Williams (1991)</b></a>
    Some good fun piratey music in here. Also a lot of nice fantasy stuff and cheerful action music.

    <a href="http://pafiles.com/potc/Pieter%20Pirate%20Music/Cutthroat%20Island/" target="_blank"><b>Cutthroat Island by John Debney (1995)</b></a>
    Definitly the best as far as pirate music is concerned. The main theme is great and each track improves on the previous ones. Great heroic fanfare in <i>Morgan In Command</i>, awesome heroic action music in <i>Carriage Chase</i>, nice "navigation" music in <i>Charting the Course</i>, brilliant battle music in <i>The Battle/To Dawg's Ship/Morgan Battles Dawg/Dawg's Demise/The Triumph</i> that just keeps building and building and remains interesting throughout the entire 18 minutes of its duration and a great finale in <i>It's Only Gold/End Credits</i>. The film might have been a failure, but the music most definitly was not!

    <a href="http://pafiles.com/potc/Pieter%20Pirate%20Music/Sinbad%20-%20Legend%20of%20the%20Seven%20Seas/" target="_blank"><b>Sinbad: Legend of the Seven Seas by Harry Gregson-Williams (2003)</b></a>
    Also some nice swashbuckling music here. The second half of <i>Let the Games Begin</i> has some nice piratey music, <i>The Sea Monster</i> is a nice cheerful action track, the first half of <i>Tartarus</i> just keeps building and building and is really cool and the end of <i>Into the Sunset</i> is also nice seafaring music.
     
  17. Pieter Boelen

    Pieter Boelen (Not So) Old Seadog Staff Member Administrator Storm Modder Hearts of Oak Donator

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    <!--quoteo(post=224981:date=Dec 9 2007, 03:38 AM:name=Mercer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mercer @ Dec 9 2007, 03:38 AM) [snapback]224981[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think that the part from "The Heart of Davy Jones" 1:58- the end of the song could possibly be good for the part where the Dutchman turns back to fight all on her own. That part is a lighter version of the theme from "At wits end" 5:18-6:06. I think that all of the Davy Jones themes in here should be lighter than that of the later movies where Jones is torn by love, anger, and sadness. Consequently it would be heavier there.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Agreed. It's nice to have a less dramatic version of that music from <i>At Wit's End</i>. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":yes" border="0" alt="yes.gif" />

    <!--quoteo(post=224981:date=Dec 9 2007, 03:38 AM:name=Mercer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mercer @ Dec 9 2007, 03:38 AM) [snapback]224981[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Also the taking of Batavia by Mercer and EITC Marines could use the song "Just Good Business" I can completely see that being the music for it. All of the action contained, like a musket fire-fight in the jungle, then the actual taking of the town.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I wonder if this music is perhaps a bit too dark and dramatic-like. It's definitly not as cheerful and fun as the music to CotBP. But I do very much agree that the Cutler Beckett theme should be quite prominent in the movie.

    <!--quoteo(post=224981:date=Dec 9 2007, 03:38 AM:name=Mercer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mercer @ Dec 9 2007, 03:38 AM) [snapback]224981[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That part from 1:36 where the REALLLY heavy Brass starts playing<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Sounds quite similar to music used in <i>Singapore</i>. Very much expanded though.

    <!--quoteo(post=224981:date=Dec 9 2007, 03:38 AM:name=Mercer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mercer @ Dec 9 2007, 03:38 AM) [snapback]224981[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Also pieter listen to the end credits of POTC DMC from 6:24 to the end, you will hear first Davy Jones organ as we are used to it, but then you will hear another verse with more flourishes in it. 6:53 i believe 'tis. I think it is interesting why they didnt use it, it sounds very eerie though. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="xD:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->It sounds similar to what is heard in the film when Davy Jones is playing his organ with the Dutchman sailing through a storm.

    <!--quoteo(post=225010:date=Dec 9 2007, 02:38 PM:name=Mercer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mercer @ Dec 9 2007, 02:38 PM) [snapback]225010[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And by the way, Hans Zimmer, i hate to say, is a bit of a hack. He has a few co-composers under his wing that wrote many of the songs. Also Hans didnt write the music for COtBP, Klaus Badelt did, Hans Zimmer just helped.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I heard somewhere that Hans Zimmer did quite a lot on it actually, but "allowed Klaus Badelt to get the credit" or something like that. Not sure what to believe. Klaus Badelt also wrote the music to <i>The Time Machine</i>, which is REALLY good. Beautiful main theme that sounds similar to Jerry Goldsmith. It is mostly orchestral as well, except in the action scenes.

    Have you noticed that a lot of music by Hans Zimmer sounds similar to other works of his? Especially the low male choir in <i>Hello Beastie</i> reminds me very strongly of Crimson Tide and The Rock, which is not an appropriate association whatsoever. I don't mind if music sounds similar to something else, but then it should sound similar to something that is also appropriate. People have complained that Cutthroat Island sounds similar to the pirate scores of old, but I don't mind. Yes, it's in the same style, but it's still better than any of the previous ones. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheeky" border="0" alt="icon_mrgreen1.gif" />

    <!--quoteo(post=225010:date=Dec 9 2007, 02:38 PM:name=Mercer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mercer @ Dec 9 2007, 02:38 PM) [snapback]225010[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->But in all ending, I like his music, especially his Davy Jones themes which i have learned to play on piano, the most challenging piece has to be his "Davy Jones plays his organ" piece.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I like parts of his music. Some stuff I really like, then some stuff I really dislike. Davy Jones' theme is really good. You can actually play it? Cool! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/w00t.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":woot" border="0" alt="w00t.gif" />

    <!--quoteo(post=225010:date=Dec 9 2007, 02:38 PM:name=Mercer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mercer @ Dec 9 2007, 02:38 PM) [snapback]225010[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I agree where you say that modern music doesnt fit well in a pirates film. That they have a problem with that can be addressed. Also "The Kracken" is so full of shit i cant see straight after listening to it. That is way to synthesized, and uses those out of place rock themes. (A base guitar can be heard in the background). Thats like using harpsichord in Mission Impossible.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->LOL! Funny way of putting it! I agree with you on that one. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="icon_wink.gif" />
    Now I wonder; perhaps a harpsichord would work really well in Mission Impossible... <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":rolleyes:" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" />

    <!--quoteo(post=225010:date=Dec 9 2007, 02:38 PM:name=Mercer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mercer @ Dec 9 2007, 02:38 PM) [snapback]225010[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yes, you were right, we will be going back and forth about best composers for a while. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Should be fun! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/keith.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":keith" border="0" alt="keith.gif" />
     
  18. morgan terror

    morgan terror Magnificent bastard Storm Modder News Gatherer

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    i don't really like the cutthroat island music, except 'morgan's ride', 'it's only gold' and 'the carriage chase'. i often use them in my PotC game. the music from that fairly modern sinbad is an absolute favorite of mine. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile2.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":))" border="0" alt="smile2.gif" /> just plain fun. from the three PotC movies, i like the music from AWE best, and some specific soundtracks from the other movies. hans zimmer is a bit of a hit-and-miss affair with me. sometimes i really like the music, sometimes it takes getting used to, and sometimes i just plain hate it, or bits of it. one thing i've always noticed is that the end of 'you look good jack' isn't used anywhere else.

    shouldn't the batavia thing be in the script topic?
     
  19. Pieter Boelen

    Pieter Boelen (Not So) Old Seadog Staff Member Administrator Storm Modder Hearts of Oak Donator

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    <!--quoteo(post=225067:date=Dec 9 2007, 09:05 PM:name=Morgan Terror)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Morgan Terror @ Dec 9 2007, 09:05 PM) [snapback]225067[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i don't really like the cutthroat island music, except 'morgan's ride', 'it's only gold' and 'the carriage chase'.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I'd be interested to know why. Did you ever try the complete version of the soundtrack? That has a lot of additional good stuff.

    <!--quoteo(post=225067:date=Dec 9 2007, 09:05 PM:name=Morgan Terror)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Morgan Terror @ Dec 9 2007, 09:05 PM) [snapback]225067[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->from the three PotC movies, i like the music from AWE best, and some specific soundtracks from the other movies.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I like AWE a lot better than DMC. AWE has the best usage of the orchestra and interesting instruments. But CotBP is more cheerful(ish) fun.

    <!--quoteo(post=225067:date=Dec 9 2007, 09:05 PM:name=Morgan Terror)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Morgan Terror @ Dec 9 2007, 09:05 PM) [snapback]225067[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->hans zimmer is a bit of a hit-and-miss affair with me. sometimes i really like the music, sometimes it takes getting used to, and sometimes i just plain hate it, or bits of it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Agreeeeed. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="icon_wink.gif" />

    <!--quoteo(post=225067:date=Dec 9 2007, 09:05 PM:name=Morgan Terror)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Morgan Terror @ Dec 9 2007, 09:05 PM) [snapback]225067[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->one thing i've always noticed is that the end of 'you look good jack' isn't used anywhere else.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->You mean the music from 3:15 - 3:42? That sounds pretty cool. Not piratey, but I like it.

    <!--quoteo(post=225067:date=Dec 9 2007, 09:05 PM:name=Morgan Terror)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Morgan Terror @ Dec 9 2007, 09:05 PM) [snapback]225067[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->shouldn't the batavia thing be in the script topic?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->It is. At least the thoughts I posted in this thread I also posted in the script thread. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":yes" border="0" alt="yes.gif" />
     
  20. morgan terror

    morgan terror Magnificent bastard Storm Modder News Gatherer

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    well, i just like the bombastic better. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile2.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":))" border="0" alt="smile2.gif" /> apart from that, 'it's only gold' just sounds good. especially for a long sail in the game where short soundtracks get repetetive.

    yep, that's the bit of the soundtrack i mean. on the other hand, i've no idea where else they might have been able to use it.

    i can't connect to the FTP anymore. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":?" border="0" alt="unsure.gif" /> it worked a few minutes ago. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dunno.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":shrug" border="0" alt="dunno.gif" />
     

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