PotC Build Mod Ship Cleanup

[Captain Armstrong]

Interesting thought. She uses the stock game schooner hull, so we could see if we could put the schooner or the shnyava rigging on the RN_Sophie hull.
That way, those ships would get the additional detail, because right now none of them have any of the additional detail that was added to many ships already.

that would be a good way to do it

I think those ships are technically not bad, but we've just got so many of them...
Warship1 is the Fourth Rate
Warship2 is the Third Rate
Lineship... not sure what rate she is. Fifth Rate according to ships_init.c
Do we have equivalent RN/HMS ships as it is? Bellona is apparently a Third Rate, so she would serve to replace the Warship2. What about Fourth and Fifth Rates?

The warships and lineships not bad? I think they are easily the worst ships ingame, mainly because of their oddly scaled and placed guns and lack of real quarter galleries, so I thought they would be an easy target for cutting. But i mean whatever. the lineship.. just isnt accurate, fith rates were frigates, and werent really two decked like that, though i guess it might be possible in the earlier time periods. Since the centurion and st albans arent ingame yet, there arent any proper fourth rates, so the fourth rate could be kept until they are in.

We don't have any of those models yet though, so I suppose we'll keep the US_Lydia for a while longer until we do.

I was only talking about the Revolutionnaire, I havent built any of the other ships! she only needs to be converted, but you are right she isnt ingame.

 

[Seb]

The warships and lineships not bad? I think they are easily the worst ships ingame, mainly because of their oddly scaled and placed guns and lack of real quarter galleries, so I thought they would be an easy target for cutting. But i mean whatever. the lineship.. just isnt accurate

Second place in the top 3 of the stock game bathtubs, with the Manowars getting the first place, and the Warships on the third position...

 

[Hylie Pistof]

Lets see......

BarqueHeavy: This ship will not get any better and the rigging is still messed up. It kind of fills a small gap between the Luggers and barks and the light fleuts and pinnaces. Not sure if it's still neeeded.

Brigantina: It has unique rigging. Other than that it's just another brig.

BrigLight, BrigRoyal: They have missing ropes that end up having things hanging in mid air. Not sure if they are fixable.

Carrack: This is an important ship of the early periods and needs to be upgraded. At least get the reverse lighting bug fixed.

Fastgaleon 1&2 : Same as the Carrack.

FR_SuperiorWarship1 is the Belette, which plays a large part in the Sea Hawk quest.

FR_SuperiorWarship2 is a more modern version. Both have had recent updates.

Wargalleon1,2,3,4: Those are the class 1 East Indiaman. The only other East Indiaman is the class 2 Jamaicaship. The East Indiaman is an important historical ship.

Hooker: It is unique.

NL_Fleuts: The light fleut is an early version of the Derfflinger. She is a nice ship, but is starting to show her age. What can replace the other one?

 

[Pieter Boelen]

The warships and lineships not bad? I think they are easily the worst ships ingame, mainly because of their oddly scaled and placed guns and lack of real quarter galleries, so I thought they would be an easy target for cutting. But i mean whatever. the lineship.. just isnt accurate, fith rates were frigates, and werent really two decked like that, though i guess it might be possible in the earlier time periods. Since the centurion and st albans arent ingame yet, there arent any proper fourth rates, so the fourth rate could be kept until they are in.

I meant the RN textures for them are not bad. The hull model themselves are pretty crappy though.

BarqueHeavy: This ship will not get any better and the rigging is still messed up. It kind of fills a small gap between the Luggers and barks and the light fleuts and pinnaces. Not sure if it's still neeeded.

BrigLight, BrigRoyal: They have missing ropes that end up having things hanging in mid air. Not sure if they are fixable.

We might want to look into that, depending on whether we want to keep them.

Carrack: This is an important ship of the early periods and needs to be upgraded. At least get the reverse lighting bug fixed.

Fastgaleon 1&2 : Same as the Carrack.

How can the Carrack have reverse lighting when she's a stock game AoP ships? If she does, shouldn't we be able to quickly deal with it by taking the hull model from AoP again; stock game ships shouldn't have reverse lighting. :wacko:

FR_SuperiorWarship1 is the Belette, which plays a large part in the Sea Hawk quest.

We can replace the storyline ship easily with another ship if we decide we don't want to keep this one.

Wargalleon1,2,3,4: Those are the class 1 East Indiaman. The only other East Indiaman is the class 2 Jamaicaship. The East Indiaman is an important historical ship.

Sounds like those ones we'd better keep then.

 

[Hylie Pistof]

This old screenie is the only one I have of the carrack. This is a s close as we can come to Columbus's fleet. Anyway, those masts are ugly.

 

[Armada]

There's also a custom deck texture for British Royal Navy ships to have a very light-coloured deck. Do we want to keep that?

Which one is that? I know there's at least one texture we'll need to keep for some ships with certain cannons, because the normal deck.tga doesn't look right on them.
For example, HMS_Interceptor uses deIB.tga, because of the cannons she has. I can easily upgrade this texture to meet the standards of deck.tga if you like.

Here's my feedback on your thoughts about the remaining ships:
- BarqueHeavy (Barqem_1) - I'm not hugely keen on this ship, as she's got wasted deck space and odd proportions.
She reminds me somewhat of the Edinburgh Trader though, which is a much nicer model; maybe use that to fill this ship's role?
(And possibly spell 'Edinburg' correctly as 'Edinburgh', now? )
- Battleship3_44 - Definitely NOT period correct for the US, but possibly keep for Portugal? They don't have a Battleship.
- Battleship4 - Here's the new texture: http://www.pyratesah...tleshipA.tga.7z. Just HEX edit one of the stock Battleship1 hulls.
- Brigantina1 - I guess she's the only brigantine, which is just a brig with different rigging. Keep for variety's sake (and a fairly nice texture)?
- BrigLight (LightBrig1) and RN_BrigLight (RN_LightBrig) - I don't really mind what we do with these.
- BrigRoyal (Brig_n1) - Same as above
- FR_SuperiorWarship1 and FR_SuperiorWarship2 - Maybe rename #1 to FR_Belette? I can't see us replacing her in the Sea Hawk storyline, and I always confuse these two ships.
- Galeon4 and GaleonWar - Maybe use Galeon4 for Spain and give SP_Galeon50 to Portugal? GaleonWar doesn't match anything, I'd say, so perhaps we should drop it.
- HMS_Mordaunt - How many times... she pre-dates the RN black and yellow colour scheme, so doesn't need one!
- HMS_Nonsuch - Maybe name her KetchNavy? We can't keep adding 'Light' and 'Heavy' all the time.
- Lugger3 - If we keep this one, we should at least use Pgargon's upgraded version he made ages ago: http://forum.pirates...-mod-guns-more/
Also, I've just realised there's an upgraded version of the LightPinnace there, too. I can't believe I forgot about that; it should solve all our problems with the LightPinnace model!
- NL_ConvoiShip (Wappen von Hamburg) - This is a difficult one to name. On the German Wikipedia page for Wappen von Hamburg (1669), it's named as a 'Konvoischiff'.
Looking that word up, it seems the correct translation is a bit difficult to come by. I believe it's something like an 'Escort ship', according to the description in the first part of this article.
- NL_LightFleut - Bit of a weird shape, that one. Probably drop, especially due to the new Derfflinger fluyt.
- RN_Brig vs. RN_Brig44 - I'd say keep RN_Brig. Don't reintroduce the Packet brig, because that had reverse lighting, I think.
- RN_JamaicaShip - Not hugely keen on that one, especially because she has lifeboats floating in mid-air. Probably drop.
- RN_Lineship - We can probably drop this one, yes. I'll admit my texture could have been better, and I don't really mind losing it.
- RN_Manowar - She's still a first rate, but I HATE the hull model. It's incredibly ugly, to my eyes. I'd like to send her to the locker, personally.
- RN_Warship1 + RN_Warship2 - Maybe ditch #1 and keep #2 for now. #2 actually has more functioning guns, too, so actually qualifies for her 4th Rate status.
- Sloop3 - See link above to Pgargon's reworked CoAS ships. There's an upgraded version of this one we should port.
- SP_Battleship2- Maybe we should drop this model, seeing as Spain has two Battleship textures?
- US_Enterprise (schooner) - I'd rather keep this one as US-only, to be honest.
I made a more distinctive US texture for use with the brig version I was helping LS with, but perhaps I could upload it now, so we can make the other version generic?
- US_HeavyWarship - Drop, definitely. Replace with repainted Bellona (I'll sort out the texture).

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Which one is that? I know there's at least one texture we'll need to keep for some ships with certain cannons, because the normal deck.tga doesn't look right on them.
For example, HMS_Interceptor uses deIB.tga, because of the cannons she has. I can easily upgrade this texture to meet the standards of deck.tga if you like.

Can't seem to find any RN ships using it anymore; used to be applied to Thomas the Terror's RN reskins.
From what I recall, the RN_Brig16gun thingey was the last to use it. Anyway, seems that idea was lost, which is fine in my book. One less deck texture to worry about.
I think all stock PotC based ships should use deck.tga, unless we've got a bloody good reason for them not to.

- BarqueHeavy (Barqem_1) - I'm not hugely keen on this ship, as she's got wasted deck space and odd proportions.
She reminds me somewhat of the Edinburgh Trader though, which is a much nicer model; maybe use that to fill this ship's role?
(And possibly spell 'Edinburg' correctly as 'Edinburgh', now? )

Do we want to set the Edinburgh Trader to be a generic encounterable ship? She is Bounty-based, so therefore doesn't have much armament.
Seems the Bounty is already encounterable, so it doesn't matter much if the Edinburgh Trader is too. Who says storyline ships MUST be unique? As long as the obviously unique ships are unique, that should be fine.

- Battleship3_44 - Definitely NOT period correct for the US, but possibly keep for Portugal? They don't have a Battleship.

Hmm... interesting thought. The Portuguese navy is going to be a bit of a mish-mash of colours though, so hopefully once the clean-up is done, we can sort out some colours to match better.

- BrigLight (LightBrig1) and RN_BrigLight (RN_LightBrig) - I don't really mind what we do with these.
- BrigRoyal (Brig_n1) - Same as above

I like the BrigRoyal; maybe keep that and lose the LightBrigs? On the other hand, the LightBrig isn't too bad either. Keep the generic, drop the RN?

- FR_SuperiorWarship1 and FR_SuperiorWarship2 - Maybe rename #1 to FR_Belette? I can't see us replacing her in the Sea Hawk storyline, and I always confuse these two ships.

Can do. Keep both though, right?

- Galeon4 and GaleonWar - Maybe use Galeon4 for Spain and give SP_Galeon50 to Portugal? GaleonWar doesn't match anything, I'd say, so perhaps we should drop it.

Hmm... I do like Petros' skins in general and would prefer to keep them all.
From what I recall, SP_Galeon50 was always intended to be a Spanish treasure galleon.

- HMS_Nonsuch - Maybe name her KetchNavy? We can't keep adding 'Light' and 'Heavy' all the time.

Absolutely agreed. So KetchNavy and then generic?

- NL_ConvoiShip (Wappen von Hamburg) - This is a difficult one to name. On the German Wikipedia page for Wappen von Hamburg (1669), it's named as a 'Konvoischiff'.
Looking that word up, it seems the correct translation is a bit difficult to come by. I believe it's something like an 'Escort ship', according to the description in the first part of this article.

Escort Ship sounds better than anything else I've heard for her.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

- NL_LightFleut - Bit of a weird shape, that one. Probably drop, especially due to the new Derfflinger fluyt.

Can do. Have to check for storyline use and replace with another fleut, probably Derfflinger-based.

- RN_Brig vs. RN_Brig44 - I'd say keep RN_Brig. Don't reintroduce the Packet brig, because that had reverse lighting, I think.

Sure thing. I do quite like the weathered look of the 44 though.

- RN_Lineship - We can probably drop this one, yes. I'll admit my texture could have been better, and I don't really mind losing it.

I thought she was one of Seb's or Thomas the Terror's old skins.

- RN_Manowar - She's still a first rate, but I HATE the hull model. It's incredibly ugly, to my eyes. I'd like to send her to the locker, personally.

We do already have the RN_FirstRate/HMS_Victory models.

 

[Armada]

Can't seem to find any RN ships using it anymore; used to be applied to Thomas the Terror's RN reskins.
From what I recall, the RN_Brig16gun thingey was the last to use it. Anyway, seems that idea was lost, which is fine in my book. One less deck texture to worry about.
I think all stock PotC based ships should use deck.tga, unless we've got a bloody good reason for them not to.

Agreed, that's the best solution.

Do we want to set the Edinburgh Trader to be a generic encounterable ship? She is Bounty-based, so therefore doesn't have much armament.
Seems the Bounty is already encounterable, so it doesn't matter much if the Edinburgh Trader is too.

The Edinburgh already can be encountered randomly; we just need to ensure she is at least as common as Barquem_1 was, and that should work out well.

Hmm... interesting thought. The Portuguese navy is going to be a bit of a mish-mash of colours though, so hopefully once the clean-up is done, we can sort out some colours to match better.

True, we'll need to have a good look through all the Portuguese textures and decide on definitive ones for early and modern ships.

I like the BrigRoyal; maybe keep that and lose the LightBrigs? On the other hand, the LightBrig isn't too bad either. Keep the generic, drop the RN?

I thought Hylie said they have rope problems though. Unless they can't be replaced, maybe it would be better to drop them.

Can do. Keep both though, right?

That's the idea, yes.

Hmm... I do like Petros' skins in general and would prefer to keep them all.
From what I recall, SP_Galeon50 was always intended to be a Spanish treasure galleon.

We have the Apostol Felipe for the Spanish treasure galleon role, so we don't really need another one.
What should we do with GaleonWar, though? She doesn't seem to match any naval colour schemes, and is hardly 'generic', either.

Absolutely agreed. So KetchNavy and then generic?

Aye, aye.

Escort Ship sounds better than anything else I've heard for her.

We might as well go with that, then.

 

[Armada]

Sure thing. I do quite like the weathered look of the 44 though.

Now that you mention it, maybe we could keep RN_Brig44 and use HMS_Speedy in place of RN_Brig? We'd just need to make her more common, probably.

I thought she was one of Seb's or Thomas the Terror's old skins.

I think it was originally Seb's skin (as per ships_init.c documentation), but I later modified it to tidy things up and add stern windows.
Anyhow, we should probably remove her regardless, for the sake of reducing the number of RN textures.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

- RN_Warship1 + RN_Warship2 - Maybe ditch #1 and keep #2 for now. #2 actually has more functioning guns, too, so actually qualifies for her 4th Rate status.

I thought #2 was supposed to be the Third Rate. Anyway, it seems the #2 has more additional detail too and a more distinct skin.
The #1 seems to be a mix of the stock game warship texture with the RN_SotL stern texture.

- SP_Battleship2- Maybe we should drop this model, seeing as Spain has two Battleship textures?

Sounds good; we don't need two and #1 is the more distinct skin.

- US_Enterprise (schooner) - I'd rather keep this one as US-only, to be honest.
I made a more distinctive US texture for use with the brig version I was helping LS with, but perhaps I could upload it now, so we can make the other version generic.

I'd like a better US texture for her and then making the original a generic schooner. That should help with having more high-detail ships show up randomly in the game.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

I like the BrigRoyal; maybe keep that and lose the LightBrigs? On the other hand, the LightBrig isn't too bad either. Keep the generic, drop the RN?

I thought Hylie said they have rope problems though. Unless they can't be replaced, maybe it would be better to drop them.

Maybe he can confirm on that one? If so, definitely remove. Nice and easy solution and they aren't that good.

Hmm... I do like Petros' skins in general and would prefer to keep them all.
From what I recall, SP_Galeon50 was always intended to be a Spanish treasure galleon.

We have the Apostol Felipe for the Spanish treasure galleon role, so we don't really need another one.
What should we do with GaleonWar, though? She doesn't seem to match any naval colour schemes, and is hardly 'generic', either.

Hmm... annoying. Have to think on that one.

Sure thing. I do quite like the weathered look of the 44 though.

Now that you mention it, maybe we could keep RN_Brig44 and use HMS_Speedy in place of RN_Brig? We'd just need to make her more common, probably.

I imagine once we're done cleaning up, we should work on adjusting the period and nation encounter chances again to make sure we get those ships appearing that we want.
Don't want to have the same ones appearing all the time and some never.

 

[Armada]

I thought #2 was supposed to be the Third Rate. Anyway, it seems the #2 has more additional detail too and a more distinct skin.
The #1 seems to be a mix of the stock game warship texture with the RN_SotL stern texture.

I've no idea why it was named RN_Third_Rate before. She definitely is NOT a 3rd Rate by any means. In fact, she should have been a 5th Rate before I added the extra guns.

I'd like a better US texture for her and then making the original a generic schooner. That should help with having more high-detail ships show up randomly in the game.

OK, I'll organise the texture and HEX-edited models then. I'll let you know when it's on the FTP.

Maybe he can confirm on that one? If so, definitely remove. Nice and easy solution and they aren't that good.

He did confirm it earlier in this thread:

BrigLight, BrigRoyal: They have missing ropes that end up having things hanging in mid air. Not sure if they are fixable.

 

[Hylie Pistof]

The Edinburgh has the same capacity as the barques. To replace the barque longue one would want something bigger than the barks but smaller than the light fleut and pinnaces. Or just leave a gap there. The Edinburgh is a late period ship that is never seen anyway.


About the brigs. The BrigN1 has "model can not be read" issues and should be dropped unless someone can fix that. I worked on the Light Brig last spring, but didn't do a very good job and it needs to be done again. It still has a lot of fals, which means missing ropes.

 

[Captain Armstrong]

is the barque longue the one with the see-in cabin? I thought that was a pretty nice merchant ship, definately worth keeping in my opinion

 

[Pieter Boelen]

The RN_JamaicaShip is used as Henry Morgan's ship (Jamaica Trader) as well as Captain Maggee's ship. If we remove her, what should we replace her with?
It seems RN_Wargalleon is really very similar.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Interesting thought. She uses the stock game schooner hull, so we could see if we could put the schooner or the shnyava rigging on the RN_Sophie hull.
That way, those ships would get the additional detail, because right now none of them have any of the additional detail that was added to many ships already.

that would be a good way to do it

How is this as an experiment for the Shnyava1? http://www.pyratesahoy.com/build/b14_b2_wip/Shnyava1.7z
The aft mast is rather close to the lifeboat and the aft sail passes through the steering wheel though, so I'm inclined to not adapt this trick to the schooners too.
If we do use this for the Shnyava's (Snow Brig), at least their hulls will look somewhat different from the schooners, which seems like a fair enough idea to me.

Edit: This does NOT work on the Shnyava2, since she uses the other schooner hull. We can either keep the detail for Shyava1 only or put it on SchoonerWar1_18 too.
That is at the moment the only other ship that uses the same schooner hull; the other schooner-based ships now use the other hull.

Edit 2: Cancel the SchoonerWar1_18 idea; I forgot that it is required to rename the texture file used and since she uses the stock game schooner1 texture, I don't want to have to rename that.
Oh well, at least the detail seems to work reasonably well on the Shnyava1, which is something at least and we can drop the RN_Sophie.

 

[Armada]

The RN_JamaicaShip is used as Henry Morgan's ship (Jamaica Trader) as well as Captain Maggee's ship. If we remove her, what should we replace her with?
It seems RN_Wargalleon is really very similar.

I guess RN_WargGalleon could work as a replacement. It has several more guns though, so clearly wouldn't fit exactly the same role.
Maybe on that note, we should keep the ship for now. Considering the flagpole problem, she will eventually need to be re-exported to fix that, so the floating boats could be fixed at the same time.
Besides, we'd have some explaining to do if Captain Maggee comes back. "Sorry mate, we kinda scrapped your ship..."

 

[Pieter Boelen]

I've been continuing with the clean-up, but have some questions left:

BarqueHeavy (Barqem_1) - Original AoP ship, not overly detailed - what did we decide on this one?
BrigRoyal (Brig_n1) - Based on a model found on a Russian folder, but in the style of the regular AoP ships with a custom texture by Yo Ho Ho. Is there any way we can keep this one? Fix the missing ropes or something?
FR_Sloop - Does anyone think this one adds a lot to the game? She does have storyline use as "Le Reve" in the Hornblower quest
HeavyLineship1 and HeavyLineship2 - Based on the stock game pinnace; do we want to keep these? We do have the similar Seven Provincien, which I think we should keep. #1 seems to have a Dutch colour scheme, so we can drop this.
#2 looks more French; keep as FR_HeavyLineship? Personally, I'm inclined to drop both unless anyone has any objections.
NL_FleutWar - Stock AoP ship. Do we want to keep this? I think we had her for Bartolomeu/Assassin storyline purposes, but now we've got the Derfflinger models that we could use instead
RN_Manowar - Qualifies as a First Rate, but we've already got HMS_Victory/RN_FirstRate; drop this one?

Once we've sorted out the above, I'll upload my files again for the final check. And then hopefully, we'll be able to call the clean-up complete for now!

 

[Pieter Boelen]

I guess RN_WargGalleon could work as a replacement. It has several more guns though, so clearly wouldn't fit exactly the same role.
Maybe on that note, we should keep the ship for now. Considering the flagpole problem, she will eventually need to be re-exported to fix that, so the floating boats could be fixed at the same time.
Besides, we'd have some explaining to do if Captain Maggee comes back. "Sorry mate, we kinda scrapped your ship..."

Hmm... I just dropped her. Oh well, once I'm finished cleaning up, you and Hylie and anyone else who cares, can go through the files and let me know any ships that should be put back.
Now that we've got so many new high-detail models, I think the modders' ships should be replaced with some of those; there's too many dull ships in use and many repeated too.