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Included in Build Relations: LoM Price and Governor Ship Hunting

Levis

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Just curious what would people think about it if we add a little rank requirement for getting a LoM.
I mean would a govenor really give a LoM to someone who is that inexperienced?
It would also give an advantage for choosing a character which has a LoM from the start in freeplay.
I don't think it should be a high level requirement.
Somewhere round 7 or 8 would probably be okay right.
Getting to level 7 or 8 should be relativly easy now...
 
@Grey Roger I believe you know most about the history of the letter of marque etc. Do you think this would be wise? Also gameplay wise, would it add anything or only annoy people? Would having a LoM very early on benefit you?
 
The price of a LoM increases with player level.
So if you can only get it later, it will be more costly and you can't legally sink or capture any non-pirate ships until you do.

Maybe it is better to leave your suggestion at least until the next update.
We may want to allow people to get used to the current changes to the game before making it harder for them again?
 
Just curious what would people think about it if we add a little rank requirement for getting a LoM.
First you'd need to remove the current system whereby you need a LoM in order to earn relation points which lead to getting promotions. Once that's done, why bother getting a LoM?

This would effectively ruin privateer gameplay.
 
First you'd need to remove the current system whereby you need a LoM in order to earn relation points which lead to getting promotions.
Is there some misunderstanding here because the words (national) "rank" and (character) "level" are sometimes used interchangeably (also in the code) while they're very, very different things?
If I understand @Levis correctly, his idea is to have governors not sell you a LoM until you've reached, say, level 8.
He doesn't mean requiring you to already have a rank with a nation before giving you a LoM. That indeed would make absolutely no sense. :shock
 
That still ruins privateer gameplay, though not quite as thoroughly.

Anyway, you already have an entry requirement of sorts. You need enough money to buy the LoM. After that, it's your ship and your life you're risking, so the governor shouldn't care about your level - if you're not up to the job then you won't live long and he won't need to bother about promoting you.
 
Maybe it is better to leave your suggestion at least until the next update.
We may want to allow people to get used to the current changes to the game before making it harder for them again?
:onya
 
That still ruins privateer gameplay, though not quite as thoroughly.
Looks Levis just agreed to leave that idea out for the time being, so we should be good here. :cheeky

Anyway, you already have an entry requirement of sorts. You need enough money to buy the LoM.
Very true. The price does go up with your character level so that "technically the same thing" is very cheap in the early game (500 gold) and gets progressively more expensive later.
So if you want to be a privateer, it pays to decide that early on.

One idea would be to have the price not depend on player level, but on something else instead.
Maybe DO allow nation relations to go up if you attack their enemies, regardless of whether you have a LoM.
But ONLY allow that up the 0 relation points. Then the price coul depend on how friendly you are to that nation.
For example, start out with -45 points with England, sink some ships enemy to England (technically "Unrespectable Acts"), but still gain points with England until you hit -30.
Because -30 is higher than -45, the cost of a LoM would be less?

After that, it's your ship and your life you're risking, so the governor shouldn't care about your level - if you're not up to the job then you won't live long and he won't need to bother about promoting you.
Very true.

That brings us to the query of what really NEEDS improving to sort out the gameplay and "nice to have" things that can be done at a later date.
At the moment, I see no particular problem with the "getting a LoM" part of the game. That is much more important now than it was before, so we should not make that too difficult.
The level-dependency does seem a bit like a lapse in logic though, because why? Maybe a simple fixed price that is a bit more prohibite than the minimum of 500 gold there is now would suffice?
But not TOO much either. Say, 2000 gold for a LoM regardless of player level and relations?
 
Is there some reason why it is necessary to make a LoM harder to get?

Having the price dependent on relations does make sense, though. At best you're 0, which is a citizen in good standing with no military rank, and the governor has no particular reason not to let you have a LoM. Slightly negative, you're a reasonably loyal citizen who hasn't done anything wrong, or at least not recently, but the governor wants a bit more assurance. At "Wary" you're definitely on his "naughty" list and he's going to want to be able to make a much more persuasive argument to his superiors, and beyond that you're hostile and you can forget it. (If the relation is "Wary" then you might have been hostile up until you bought forgiveness about 5 seconds ago, with all that implies about your loyalty to his nation.)

Possibly boost the price a bit if it's a second LoM or more. Partly because you're not a patriot looking to serve his nation, you're in it for the money and fame, which isn't going to help your case. And partly because if you've already got one LoM then you've got a reasonable source of income and can probably afford it.
 
Is there some reason why it is necessary to make a LoM harder to get?
None that I can think of. :no

My main thought here is that the prize is level-dependent and only goes up throughout the game regardless of anything else.
That doesn't sound right to me.

Your solution sounds pretty good and I'd like to see that implemented, but that would require a bit more development time too.
That is why I proposed a single fixed price. That may be an oversimplification, but at least isn't as strange as the current situation.

At "Wary" you're definitely on his "naughty" list and he's going to want to be able to make a much more persuasive argument to his superiors, and beyond that you're hostile and you can forget it. (If the relation is "Wary" then you might have been hostile up until you bought forgiveness about 5 seconds ago, with all that implies about your loyalty to his nation.)
Should we allow getting a LoM if you're Wary at all? Now you can indeed crave forgiveness and then buy a LoM 5 seconds later.
Here is an alternate suggestion:
- Buying amnesty sets your relation to Wary (-45)
- Only allow buying a LoM if your relation is Neutral or above (-30)
- Gain relation points with a nation upon completing a Governor Ship Hunting quest
- Sinking/capturing enemies from Governor Ship Hunting quests should NEVER be considered an "Unrespectable Act"; after all, you're doing it for a specific governor

The above would allow you to buy amnesty, then legally gain the trust of the nation you wish to serve through Governor Ship Hunting quests,
then be able to buy a LoM for a reasonable price and get points for your actions without the governor telling you what to do.
If you keep doing those type of quests until you reach relation Friendly (0), then you can get a LoM for the current minimum of 500 gold, so really cheap.
Doing these quests will NOT give you additional points above 0, so you MUST buy that LoM if you do want to proceed.
 
I suppose the logic behind the current system could be (a) when you're higher level, you've presumably found some way to make money so you can afford it, and (b) if you've left it this long then you're clearly not much of a patriot so the governor needs more convincing to let you have the LoM.

On second thoughts, a base price of 2000 isn't too bad. A lot of scenarios have you start at level 5 so your current base price would be 2500 anyway, it's only the ones who start at level 1 who are going to have to pay more.

There shouldn't be a problem with buying a LoM right after buying forgiveness. The amnesty probably cost you a lot of money and the LoM is about to cost you another lot... Your idea about using ship hunting quests to improve your relation before buying the LoM for a lower price is alright so long as it's the player's choice - either do a quest or two and improve your relation or buy the LoM right now at full price. (Anyway, the proceeds from that ship-hunting quest will probably pay for the LoM as well as reduce its price so you may as well do it.) The idea that a ship-hunting quest should be fully "respectable" is fine - it's effectively a free one-shot LoM, the full name of which is "Letter of Marque and Reprisal", specifically it's reprisal against that enemy ship which has annoyed the governor.

The price and payment for the LoM is handled in dialog file "governor.c", with several references to 'makeint(PChar.rank)*LOM_COST'. It shouldn't be too hard to replace them all with something based on your relation - I've probably got the syntax wrong, but perhaps something like ' (5 - GetRMRelation(PChar, iNation)) * 400' would do. If you're neutral (relation 0) then you get the base price of 2000. If you've just bought forgiveness then your relation is -30 and the cost goes up to 14000. (Or 19600 if forgiveness becomes -45.) You can vary the base price and how much relation will affect the price by replacing the '5' and '400', but making the price dependent on relation rather than skill level ought to be that simple. :D
 
I think we should wait with this a bit longer.
For the next update I want to make another land based general quest for the governor. this way you could choose either of these to raise the relation points.
 
I would propose to do at the very least the following:
- Ensure there are NO adverse effects (nor direct positive ones; that goes together) from Governor Ship Hunting quests.
- DO add some points upon completing them (up to a maximum of 0 relation points if you don't have a LoM).
- Change base price to a fixed 2000 gold.
- OPTIONAL: Make it relation-dependent as @Grey Roger suggests. In theory, that should indeed not be all that complicated.
- OPTIONAL: Change the governor dialogs to clarify a bit on the above.

Adding a second type of quest later should be easy enough.

There shouldn't be a problem with buying a LoM right after buying forgiveness. The amnesty probably cost you a lot of money and the LoM is about to cost you another lot... Your idea about using ship hunting quests to improve your relation before buying the LoM for a lower price is alright so long as it's the player's choice - either do a quest or two and improve your relation or buy the LoM right now at full price.
True words. No need for that second relation requirement then. :doff
 
Ha! Looks like this totally works!

These are the prices you get:

rel > price
-60 > 26000
-45 > 20000
-30 > 14000
-15 > 8000
0 > 2000

For reference, anything over -60 is considered "not hostile" and therefore allows you to buy a LoM.
Normally all nations start at -45. If you buy amnesty, you get -30.
For your own selected starting nation, normally you will start at 0.

I think effectively this makes for a bit higher prices than there were before in the early game.
But you can now bring those prices down by doing the Governor Ship Hunting quests, rather than them only ever going up.
And you will NEVER be considered a pirate for doing these quests either. Seems like an improvement to me! :cheeky
 
Rather than say that they specifically reduce LoM price, have the governor say that working for him proves your loyalty to his nation and improves your standing. And have the LoM dialog perhaps say something like "Due to your standing with our nation, the price will be X". Let the player figure out how to put the two together. ;) (If the smuggler-busting quest is also available, perhaps that too can raise your relation.)
 
If the smuggler-busting quest is also available, perhaps that too can raise your relation.
While that quest indeed does give you relation points, at the moment at least it isn't available to players unless they already have a LoM.
Maybe @Levis might consider changing that?
 
I want to also make it avaible if you got busted smuggling. But with lower rewards.
 
I want to also make it avaible if you got busted smuggling. But with lower rewards.
In that case, should you get positive points with the nation at all?
Your reward is pretty much "not going to jail", isn't it? :whipa
 
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