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Texturing Moder's Code List

Discussion in 'Tutorials' started by Suraknar, Dec 31, 2003.

  1. Petros

    Petros Captain of "La Nao" Storm Modder

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    Pieter, I suggest that you pin this back up there.

    I looks like someone has already started using someone else's number.
     
  2. Pieter Boelen

    Pieter Boelen (Not So) Old Seadog Staff Member Administrator Storm Modder Hearts of Oak Donator

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    Ok. I pinned it again. I really need to clean up the forum though, putting all information like this on my website instead. Too many pinned thread are just confusing. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/modding.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":modding" border="0" alt="modding.gif" />
     
  3. Darth-me

    Darth-me Landlubber

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    If this is still going, and the list is up to date, may I have 95 please?
     
  4. Harrow

    Harrow Freelance Modder Storm Modder

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    Can I get 55 please? thanks!
     
  5. Pieter Boelen

    Pieter Boelen (Not So) Old Seadog Staff Member Administrator Storm Modder Hearts of Oak Donator

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    List updated.
     
  6. Suraknar

    Suraknar The Duke Storm Modder

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    Cleaned up list and removed link to LIB, the list will be maintained here only from now on.

    Cheers!
     
  7. superdurnius

    superdurnius Corsair Coordinator 3D Artist Storm Modeller

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    I don't agree with this... It makes lot's of mess in character folder and have no use, except "knowledge" of owner... I suggest forget this... No one "numbers" ships and locations, right?
     
  8. Pieter Boelen

    Pieter Boelen (Not So) Old Seadog Staff Member Administrator Storm Modder Hearts of Oak Donator

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    Ships we used to and there's still some traces of it left in the appendices of the folder names.
    Locations we never did number, weapons hardly.

    Although the original intent to prevent potential overwriting was a noble one, we haven't actually made use of this for years.
    Using WinMerge, we can also prevent overwriting, and we don't have that many modders working at the same time on the same stuff either,
    so the risk is much smaller as well.
     
  9. superdurnius

    superdurnius Corsair Coordinator 3D Artist Storm Modeller

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    I never used this... None of my character have number-ID on them. They simpy are called as characters should be called... And becouse of that they can be esealy founded, if needed...
     
  10. Suraknar

    Suraknar The Duke Storm Modder

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    This was created in response to the massive retexturing movement in the early day of POTC modding, i can see that SuperDurnius may not see its use since i do not recall him being there early on. He must have came in to a period where the Hype was over and we did not have 50 different textures version of the Black Pearl and 80 different textures for Jack Sparrow. :will It may also be why you did not understand its use and only thought it was about ownership.

    Having said that, I have not been around for a while since then myself, I am not up to date with the current dynamic, and you seem to be more so than myself, so if you all say that its use is not needed then by all means we do not need to use it anymore. This was just a solution to a problem, if that problem is now gone, we do not need to apply the solution. And if the problem surfaces again well, then we already have a solution.

    Besides, one thing less to worry about! ;)
     
  11. superdurnius

    superdurnius Corsair Coordinator 3D Artist Storm Modeller

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    Right now is other opinion i guess...

    Before: How we can inlude ALL content and still remember who created what? --> Texture-numbering-system...
    Now: How we can have best quoality content and not to overload build with huge download size? --> Stop numbering textures, wory about inside-build editing/upgrading/ownership and work co-op on one thing (even if it is character texture) with other PA! modders...

    If I with more 2 modders will create skin pack for storyline and we'll use numbering system... What should be model names? 234-145-576-456-hero.gm? Sounds more like international call to me?
     
  12. Peter Willemoes

    Peter Willemoes Corsair Storm Modder

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    SuperDurnius, to find the path leading on to constructive suggestions again, what should be done to preserve credits to the rightous and original creators of the textures, PA! choose to use?

    What naming system do you use to preserve credits as the original creator? If you have your own way of preventing other people from stealing your work and use it as a base for their own creations, maybe PA! could use that system as a replacement?
     
  13. superdurnius

    superdurnius Corsair Coordinator 3D Artist Storm Modeller

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    That might sound silly, but I don't think we need one at all...

    This comunity is small enought (not as huge as Fallout 3 or Oblivion), so "honor" rule would be enought for me...

    If someone want's to edit my character, and don't know who created it, simply ask at forums... And if noone remembers who created it, then "license" expired... You at least tryed...

    Me, I don't care if my work will be copyed-and-modyfied (but still, I'd like to be noted, that my work is in use somewhere).
    My "permision" should be asked ony if my work should be replaced, or used out of B14/B15 mod... Or in other community.

    Everyone INSIDE B14/B15 have my permision to edit my content and I hope most of use think that way...


    And for identification think... There is 2 ways I used in other projects for that:
    1. Write your nickname inside characters texture... Somewhere in unused space...
    2. Pieter, as compiler, could create new text fire as owner list for characters. Simple as can be... somekindofmodel.gm - some kind of moder...
    (the same way could be created text files for locations, weapons and ships)
     
  14. Suraknar

    Suraknar The Duke Storm Modder

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    You know, I found this reply ironic a bit, but i shall not go in to it in any great detail, suffice it to say that some of us have been there before. ;)

    ---

    So, what it seems like right now is that the Build has come full circle.

    It has evolved from a period of Hype where every mod was to be included in to it to a more select kind of creation where not every mod will be included in to it.

    The reasons are of course technical and i understand them and your approach is to properly scrutinize content and probably decide via consensus of a small group of people managing the project what to include and what not to include.

    There are pros and cons to this.

    The Pros of course solve the technical issues, make for a more streamlined creation more manageable too.

    The cons are Human considerations. Not everyone is interested in making mods if they know that there is a chance that their mods will not be selected, and will perceive the effort as a waste, the bar is higher for many when we start talking "Quality". People will gather in other places where they have the opportunity to see their work be published.

    If you want to encourage more modding for POTC, you will have to find solutions to accommodate everyone without exceptions. if you do not want more people to mod POTC and are contempt with a set group, then you just crossed in to a new level of modding where there is a dedicated Team of Modders, which works exclusively on the project.

    So first of all there is a decision to make here I think, does POTC modding go on Openly, or Privately?

    Once you have decided this then you will be on a much better position to find solutions and set own rules for content creation (Quality) and Content Inclusion (Selection).

    PA! is famous for Open modding, did that change along the way? Is it now, a more private kind of Group? Has PA! transformed in to a PMT? And has the Build become no longer an Open Project for all the community but rather a sub-product of its own right offered as is and with the select content that its dedicated team decides to include in it?

    Full circle indeed.

    ---

    Mind you, unlike how some have been against a Private Project in the past, I personally am not against it if that is what you wish because having been there myself I understand (and now I think many of you do too), all this is simply part of the normal evolution of things and your experience accumulated over the years in terms of modding.

    However, the time it took for the Build to evolve from Quantity to Quality, other alternatives have become available to some So if you wish still to keep this an open project, if truly the Build is still an Open Modding project, there are solutions to circumvent many of the issues.

    ---

    Oh and by the way SuperDurnius writing the nickname inside the texture I think is a great idea as well, it does not solve all the technical issues with an Open Project but it insures that credits are attributed where due, specially in a Private/Managed Project.

    Cheers!
     
  15. superdurnius

    superdurnius Corsair Coordinator 3D Artist Storm Modeller

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    You didn't understood me right... Now all projects are included too... Just they are now more co-op like and have better quality... And before including they might have one owner, but they might also have 5 people, who worked with it... No one does that selection thing... But also there is lower count of people, that does random stuff just because they can do stuff...

    Most of jobs done is requests from quest-coders or coders...

    Result of that is more quality work... And this way it's hard to chose owner, since work, in most cases is co-op...

    THat's the one of the reasons of creation of modeling team... This was simply for esear discovery of people, you could work with, when making 3D models/Projects...

    I have real example:
    http://forum.piratesahoy.net//topic/14139-cave-ship/
    Here is post about first custom location from PA! community... It was co-op work of me and Thomas the Terror... I made modeling part, while TTT made textures and lightning files... And I guess someone updated the locator count or added some chests... I just don't know now...
    So owners are more than 2: SuperDurnius, Thomas the Terror, (creator of Black Pearl) and ect...

    The same with Gypsy Captain, almost all re-worked skins are made by me and Damski...

    And there is much more projects, that simply "don't have" one owner. This is the main reason why I'm not supporting owner-numbering...

    My English isn't really good... Am I writing clearer now?
     
  16. superdurnius

    superdurnius Corsair Coordinator 3D Artist Storm Modeller

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    You didn't understood me right... Now all projects are included too... Just they are now more co-op like and have better quality... And before including they might have one owner, but they might also have 5 people, who worked with it... No one does that selection thing... But also there is lower count of people, that does random stuff just because they can do stuff...

    Most of jobs done is requests from quest-coders or coders...

    Result of that is more quality work... And this way it's hard to chose owner, since work, in most cases is co-op...

    THat's the one of the reasons of creation of modeling team... This was simply for esear discovery of people, you could work with, when making 3D models/Projects...

    I have real example:
    http://forum.piratesahoy.net//topic/14139-cave-ship/
    Here is post about first custom location from PA! community... It was co-op work of me and Thomas the Terror... I made modeling part, while TTT made textures and lightning files... And I guess someone updated the locator count or added some chests... I just don't know now...
    So owners are more than 2: SuperDurnius, Thomas the Terror, (creator of Black Pearl) and ect...

    The same with Gypsy Captain, almost all re-worked skins are made by me and Damski...

    And there is much more projects, that simply "don't have" one owner. This is the main reason why I'm not supporting owner-numbering...

    My English isn't really good... Am I writing clearer now?
     
  17. Pieter Boelen

    Pieter Boelen (Not So) Old Seadog Staff Member Administrator Storm Modder Hearts of Oak Donator

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    The owner-number system was brilliant for what it was devised for: prevention of overwriting files by different people.
    Especially back in the days when people reused the original character model name.

    However, nowadays we don't have that many people anymore, so we can prevent overwritng in other ways.
    We do give credit where credit is due, but generally inside the code files themselves.
    For example, ships_init.c and initModels.c contain many notes on who made what.
    For locations, it's generally in the location init files, etc.

    While the init files are the most comprehensive and reliable list, we've also started keeping track of who did what in the "Build Info.txt" file, which resembles a changelog/feature list.

    Additionally to that, I myself might be considered an alive credit list as well, because I'm pretty well aware of who did what and try to give credit to the original creator wherever and whenever necessary.
     
  18. Suraknar

    Suraknar The Duke Storm Modder

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    SuperDurnius and Pieter,

    Thanks for answering my questions about the status of the build too and the way mods are made for it as well. This is more clear :)

    So now there are also more collaborative and shared projects, and this is actually Great!

    And I agree in that perspective, when more than one person work on the same Mod it is not efficient to name files with Modder codes, instead it is more efficient to record the names of the participants and credit appropriately at the release of a build the group that worked on a specific mod. Besides there are threads about these mods the people participating in them are known. Specialy in a calmer atmosphere with less people, ties between people are closer and the whole thing more manageable. This is not an issue.

    Under that environment Credits is not an Issue, when things don't get overwritten etc. It is a different ball game.

    And as you said, because there is more structure in the mods going in, and there aren't 20 copies of the same content, then a modder's code to insure that the files are unique and not overwritten is actually not an issue, and I agree again, not needed.

    ---

    Finally, no worries about your English SuperDurnius, it is really fine :) And know that English is not my first Language either. :mm
     
  19. Pieter Boelen

    Pieter Boelen (Not So) Old Seadog Staff Member Administrator Storm Modder Hearts of Oak Donator

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    Also, what I forgot to say yesterday, was to reply to your open vs. closed question.
    We are pretty open to any new modders who want to work, though we might not include content if it's not up to a certain standard.
    We have been doing that in the past, but it resulted in inconsistent quality and huge filesize of the recent Build mod releases.

    We're actually considering doing some quality control soon and removing content we don't think fits in.
    We don't actually want to discourage people that way, but the filesize is just too much and we need to do whatever we can to limit it.
     
  20. superdurnius

    superdurnius Corsair Coordinator 3D Artist Storm Modeller

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    But this, probably, will be when we'll start with B15... For B14 is already to late... :D
     

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