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Want to make sailing realistic...

A

Aken H Bosch

Landlubber
Hello !

Actually i`ve posted about my idea on another forum, and got a helpful link here.
I`ve been playing PotC long time ago and now got AoP.
I`ve some personal expierience concerning how the sails work and just wish I had a pirate game that had REALISTIC sailing included. Dead zones, no sailing against the wind possible, diffrence between latin and square sail and a lot of minor issues.
I started inspecting the AoP files on my own, but it seems it could take some time to make everything the way I wished.
So... where could I find some help? Say, a realistic sailing mod for PotC could be helpful since the games seem to be made in quite similiar way, but where to find it ? And how these variables precisely work ? What should I look for inside of the specified files, like ships_ini.c ?
Thanks for any help.

So far, I started working on the diffrence between latin and square sails, but I still don`t know how to make any ship just stop when sailing against the wind and how to make the dead zone wider.

My objectives:

1. No sailing against the wind possible. If you face the wind directly, you have your vessel stopped. Depending on the sails, the dead zone varies from about 45 degrees in case of some latin-sails vessels to even 180degrees in case of some of the latin sails vessels, with typical dead zone of about 90degrees.
2. Latin sails provide best speed within half wind, between 90 and about 120 degrees on each board.
3. Square sails give most speed at about 180 degrees.
4. the larger the vessel, the longer it takes to speed up or slow down
5. If possible: if the sails are set and you go against wind, you stop almost immediately. With sails curled, your speed is reduced slowly - you can turn in the dead zone without loosing too much speed.
6. ? If anything ommited here comes into my attention, I`ll try to add it.

I`m not a professional modder nor programmist so I`m afraid some issues that might be obvious for other modders may need some explanation in my case. Fact English is not my motherlanguage and I`m not 100% fluent at naval vocabulary ( even if I`m trying to improve myself <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/poet.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":hmm" border="0" alt="poet.gif" /> ) won`t make things easier.

Anyway, any clue, hint, walkthourgh thevariables and the way the game deals with sailing will be greatly appreciated. Thanks !
 
Hey mate, welcome to the forums! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/par-ty.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheers" border="0" alt="par-ty.gif" /> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/buds.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":drunk" border="0" alt="buds.gif" /> Not that I'm a modder myself, but I think you'll find some help here. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":yes" border="0" alt="yes.gif" /> If not, you can try PotC modding section of the site - but either way, you're bound to find some help! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheeky" border="0" alt="icon_mrgreen1.gif" />

And again, welcome! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile2.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":))" border="0" alt="smile2.gif" />
 
Thanks for the greetings <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" />

Warm welcome is always nice, except when made with a flamethrower <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />

I`ve downloaded the BUild and slowly make some checks with the values... but I`m afraid it could take some time... and no 5 , well, I wish I did it but so far have no idea how.
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />
OK, back to work. Set sail !
 
Welcome to the asylum Sir Baron <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/doff.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":doff" border="0" alt="doff.gif" />

Go to the AOP FTP site, details <a href="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=7704" target="_blank">here</a>
There ye shall find the POTC real sailing mod ported to AOP.

For good measure I have also attached it to this post.

All the best
Frans
 
HawkerT, I got it. You have my deepest gratitude <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

Yay !

Edit: It works perfectly. I`ve played around with faceagainstthewind ( or however it`s named ) a little bit. I`m not sure how did it impact the origal mod attached above, but I`ve run with a corvette right against the wind.
She stopped and in few seconds started to sail BACK, at rather high speed ( initially 0,2 but soon it was nearly 1 knot ).
Excellent, it just gave me such a motivation to work further <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" />
If nothing unexpected emerges, I might be able to release a version of realistic sailing with few cents here and there ... <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" /> perhaps someone will like it.
PS Asylum ? The place I always wanted to find myself !
 
Aye, welcome to the crew, Baron. Nice to see another face here willing to put up with this buggy game and try to make it better than it was released.

I look forward to seeing the work you do, as I am certain many other players will as well.

Cap'n Drow
 
I`ll do my best. With build 13 downloaded, everything should be done much faster, no need to start from the very beginning :]
 
welcome m8 ! always nice to see a new face ...

I LOVED the stories of Baron Von Munchhausen as a child BTW
 
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Edit: It works perfectly. I`ve played around with faceagainstthewind ( or however it`s named ) a little bit. I`m not sure how did it impact the origal mod attached above, but I`ve run with a corvette right against the wind.
She stopped and in few seconds started to sail BACK, at rather high speed ( initially 0,2 but soon it was nearly 1 knot ).
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Ahoy matey,

you may want to have a look at the functions in AIShip.c for understanding this fWindAgainstSpeed thing.
Its basically a weight, which sets the relative angle towards wind for, a, the point of best sailing and, b, the closest point when on tack course. The functions are calibrated to imitate the POTC behaviour for the schooner and the big sqare rigged ships exactly. The other ships are a little off, due to different fWindAgainstSpeed values (in ships_init.c) compared to POTC, especially the Barque, which is a much better sailing boat in AoP than it was in POTC (and reality ...).
Feel free to play with the values in AIShip or Ships_Init, beware though that the functions in AIShip are merely linear ones, so setting fWindAgainstSpeed to far off (I have stumbled over someone using values of 40+ for the original game in the forums) will surely destroy the sailing behaviour entirely... Maybe one should make this code somewhat more "fool proof"...

So, have fun with it, and share your thoughts and ideas.
 
I will... now, when I have time I just try to play with diffrent values in simple way: I change one, load game and watch how it changes everything.
I`m mostly testing the corvette and schooner as they are somehow representative for both types of sail and additionally I just have two good save with such vessels. When I check these two through, changing values for the other ships should be fairly easy.
 
<!--quoteo(post=176253:date=Dec 18 2006, 10:50 PM:name=Baron Von Munchhausen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Baron Von Munchhausen @ Dec 18 2006, 10:50 PM) [snapback]176253[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
I will... now, when I have time I just try to play with diffrent values in simple way: I change one, load game and watch how it changes everything.
I`m mostly testing the corvette and schooner as they are somehow representative for both types of sail and additionally I just have two good save with such vessels. When I check these two through, changing values for the other ships should be fairly easy.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

btw. when changing the values in ships_init.c you will have to start a new game, as I understand it, since the init files will only be checked during game start. Or reinit in POTC, but we don't have the reinit mod in AOP yet. Wonder if anyone's working on that...
Changes in AIShip.c will be in the game immediately.
 
Good to know. Thanks !

Another two things that came into my attention: the wind could be stronger so that the ships can move faster without checking fast movement option.
I`m not sure about the scale the wind strength is given but assuming it`s given in knots, storm should START with 32-46knots according to Beaufort scale. For a heavy storm, it should be more, at least 50knots. But 12knots... it`s just ridiculous. Even if there are m/s used, it should be over 20m/s for a strong gale and even more for a storm.


The other one is gun shots - I`ve seen them in Build13 of PotC and I`m DEEPLY impressed.
See such clouds of white smoke in battle... <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" />

But first things first.

Edit: and a success ! things from PotC, concerning dead zones, implemented. Well, THIS part is not mine merit but it`s fairly done. Just few changes, here and there...
Now, I`m changing ships_init and one of the results is fantastic:
now, if you strike sail,your ship begins to deccelerate quickly to about 1knot. But then, she keeps moving on, decreasing very slowly, depending on the ship`s mass and shape ( I just put the values as they seem to me ). Moreover, if you set sail and enter the dead zone, you`ll still be stopped immediately, it still works just as if you used brakes <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" />
Which is meant to work like this.
But, if you strike sail and enter the zone, you`ll deccelerate SLOWLY. Therefore, if you have square sails and want to turn against the wind, strike sails and you`ll do it.
Still, the mechanism is not perfect to say the least and the decceleration is initially too fast, and too slow later on. But a step in the right direction has been made.

Another edit: I`ve made it. Still, you deccelerate a little bit too fast initially but after that it works quite well. Perhaps, after playing some time, I`ll collect enough data about the performance and change the values.
 
Tell us, which values are you working on? There are some values regarding acceleration in ships_init (InertiaAcceleration/BrakingX/Y/Z), did you check/change them? What were your results?
The real sailing mod does nothing but change the final _maximum_ speed depending on the relative angle to the wind, btw. So really changing the ship's acc/deceleration character would have to include other code parts as well.
Also be aware that especially these old sqare rigged ships sometimes (or, to say the truth, always) were simply unable to turn into the wind and to really tack. And with their short and wide hulls they decelerated quite instantly after loosing wind. So don't make them too good as well, at least if you want to keep the name "realistic"... <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />

Other thing: does anyone know if there is a speed var regarding drift? That'd be quite interesting, to have a stong wind and you could just not in any way make it off the land because of your ship drifting, wouldn't it... <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />
 
Age of Pirates - Caribbean Tales\Program\ships in this part you have the ships_init. file which I was working on. Basically, I started playing with
refship.InertiaBrakingZ values for each ship. It seems the lower the value is, the longer it takes to decclerate. There is some link between this value, and
refship.InertiaAccelerationZ in the same line. Seems, the effect I`m working on is somehow result of these two.
If both values are high, the ship deccelerates quickly. Playing with InertiaBreakingZ makes the ship slow down to 1knot and below quickly and then she deccelerates slowly. For example, try a lugger you start with and give the value 0.50 to inertiabreaking Z, you`ll notice the diffrence.
And one more thing: I didn`t change the values for other interia concerning variables, I`m not yet sure how they impact the behaviour of a ship. Perhaps today-tomorrow I`ll inspect them.

On checking: As these values are check with a new game, I had to boost my character`s initial money to be able to bring a corvette or a galleon to check. Still, considering the perks and all the stuff, please notice that only Lugger was somehow properly tested.


As for square sails - I`ve noticed that, therefore galleons, caravels and other heavy vessels are sluggy and I didn`t give them much better values, so they are sailing just slightly better. Keep in mind that considering the boost given to other, better sailing vessels they are perhaps even worse choice for a sailor, than in the stock game.
Unless it`s about the cargo, not the sailing ! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" />

I`ve checked the corvette in first place, as it`s still a relatively good square-sailed ship. To say the least, making a turn against the wind with sails set is BAD idea, unless you want to stop almost immediately. With stroken sails, you deccelerate but still move. Moreover - the speed during the turn should impact your maneuvrability and that`s another thing I`m looking forward to work upon. Suppose, it must be something with interiabreaking/acceleration values, probably those with Y.
 
OK !
One thing: I`d like to upload the mod for testing purposes - I haven`t checked all vessels available and want the other people to say what they think of new way of sailing now.

Question is, where should I upload the mod ?
 
<!--quoteo(post=178053:date=Jan 5 2007, 06:10 AM:name=Baron Von Munchhausen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Baron Von Munchhausen @ Jan 5 2007, 06:10 AM) [snapback]178053[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
OK !
One thing: I`d like to upload the mod for testing purposes - I haven`t checked all vessels available and want the other people to say what they think of new way of sailing now.

Question is, where should I upload the mod ?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


Rapidshare.com or megaupload.com seem to have been popular here in the past. They're probably as good a place as any.
 
OK, I`ll just make archiwe ready and voila <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" />

BTW - since some changes were made to the init. files, it is alas necessary to start a new game for the changes to make effect. Keep it in mind.

I expect Your opinions - if You find anything odd, strange, or simply wrong write it down so I could make a mod as good as possible :]

<a href="http://rapidshare.com/files/10357277/Realistic_Sailing_.7z.html" target="_blank">http://rapidshare.com/files/10357277/Reali...ailing_.7z.html</a> <-the download link. Simply replace the files...
Sea_Ai is not my jobm it`s from realistic sailing AOP attached to the thread. All other is my work.
All ships files go into program/Ships directory. Weather - simply replaces the files from weather directory.

I`ve changed some stats of the ships and now they should behave in more realistic way. Additionally, I`ve increased SOME values for the weather, as wind in AOP is unrealistically weak.
Now the ships should move better <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />
Hope you`ll enjoy it.
 
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