Wind direction in the Caribbean

[Talisman]

I suggested that only as long as it isn't quite ready yet for regular inclusion in the main mod.

 

[Tingyun]

@Talisman The pseudo ironman players aren't referring to your concern--as I said, I am currently exploring implementing new features specifically targeted at your concerns. I think in the end turning off for islands doesn't make as much sense, rather more frequent, and realistically random wind changes will be the better solution for not only addressing that but improving everything.

To the general question, this won't be added until it won't bother 95% of players, and might actually be a lot more fun for them.

Meaning, once tested and calibrated correctly:

1)Directsail only players who love realism will LOVE it
2)Worldmap using players won't mind it, and may actually find it a very fun immersive addition when they are in sailing mode

3) Possibly mythical directsail only ironman players who hate realistic winds might dislike it, and can then toggle it off if we decide they even exist, or if there are odd members of group 2 who do find it annoying even after calibration (not directed at your concern Talisman, as I said I am addressing that separately)

So we only burden group 3, and they might not exist at all. And if they do they can have a toggle.

Much better that way than the overwhelming majority of players in groups 1 and 2 never ever get to even try it out. Because I will keep testing to make sure it does indeed improve the game.

You mean Open Seas mod, yes, I am aware of it. But this feature is NOT targeted at ironman players especially, it is a feature to generally improve the game for everyone.

Anyway, here is where we stand now @Talisman : I am currrently working on random but more frequent wind changes. JUST AS BEFORE, if you have trouble sailing into those ports with the wind blowing west, you can wait until the wind changes. And since wind changes will be more frequent, that won't be more burdensome really.

I think that should solve all the concerns, let's see in testing.

EDIT: wow 3 new posts while I was writing

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Two things that DO make sense based on distance to land are land and sea breezes!
Might solve the problem, since they'd blow one way during the day and the other way during the night.
So if you time your arrivals and departures, you could make use of them for those tricky ports.

 

[Tingyun]

I made a first start on the random wind changes, but it ended up more complicated than I had originally thought, as it seems I need to A) make the check for wind updates B) make the wind updates have occurred when it does the check C) make sure the two are linked so performance isn't impacted by two frequent checks for updates D) calibrate the wind change extent for the reduced time and E) disaggregate the stuff that does the day/night time updates, so those still occur on schedule, since they are currently linked.

It actually looks to be a rather extensive job, and has a risk of messing things up, unlike the very safe wind angle conversion currently in place.

I'm inclined to set that part aside for now, and playtest the current version to see if it creates a problem with ports, and then deal with it another way if it does.

 

[Tingyun]

@Pieter Boelen
So here is the thing about doing land and sea breezes:

A)Currently, wind speed and angle are given. There are no vectors or ways to modify vectors, the angle and speed are not linked.

B) Wind updated once an hour, on the hour, not otherwise.

Meaning, I could do the following:

Place a check for whether close to land, and then whether it is day or night, and have the wind blow in some specified angle.

But it would be hard to choose that angle. At best we choose the direction of the land, but then that would be where the land was in relation to the player potentially 45 minutes ago, on the last time wind was updated, and quickly in the wrong direction if he moves at all relative to the land.

Also, it would seem strange if wind was always the same direction, away from land or towards it. If we were already doing wind by vectors, then we could just make a small additive vector away or towards the land, and use the resulting wind. That would be realistic and interesting. But it would require completely rewriting the wind generation code, and would be a huge undertaking.

So I'm inclined to think this is not so doable. It would be harder and much more risky even than the random wind changes. I might pick up the random wind changes again and try it later, but even that I am a bit hesitant to do right now.

But let me know if I am looking at this wrong or misunderstanding something.

 

[Tingyun]

My current plan (for discussion, comment, and suggestion):

1) playtest the current version with the tendency of the wind to blow west for the next couple of weeks

2) pay special attention to the issue of difficult to enter ports, and whether it really is an issue or whether it is basically the same as before (my impression it will be the same, with just a slightly longer wait on average if you need to get something other than a western wind)

3) calibrate in response to any observations, including potentially putting in a check that disables the western wind tendency when close to land if play testing shows it is needed

I think in that way we can very possibly have something that improves the sailing experience within the next couple of weeks, and doesn't pose a risk of breaking anything or really bothering much of anyone.

Then:

4) Once added into the mod, quickly address any player concerns with whatever changes are needed

Then, longer term, maybe for beta 15, depends on what other modding stuff I have to do :5) look into adding random time for wind changes (and then playtest that one alot, because that could actually break things, unlike the current version)

Any comments on that plan?

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Keeping it simple for now sounds wise to me.
We won't really know if the concerns are valid until after some substantial playtesting anyway.

And while my land and sea breeze suggestion might in theory help, it certainly does not simplify matters for all the reasons you mention.
So I don't mind if you skip on that for now. It was merely a random idea anyway.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Then I have a question concerning the wind. What was North recently now seems to be NorthWest. [...]
So to get the flag flying like in the picture it's now SetNextWind("NE",30);

I am responding here, because it is my very strong suspicion that it is related.

@Levis: Just to confirm, did you add @Tingyun's wind direction changes to your ZIP?

Is this really intentional?

I'm sure that is indeed not intentional.

 

[Jack Rackham]

Ok.

 

[Levis]

@Levis: Just to confirm, did you add @Tingyun's wind direction changes to your ZIP?

Yes

 

[Tingyun]

Oops didn't see this and responded there.

It should just be a matter of changing the value between 0 and 2PI that the setnextwind refers to. I'll see about that.

 

[Tingyun]

@Jack Rackham Found a simpler solution. I think this file fixes the problem so setnextwind works right again. Please let me know if the problem continues.

Goes into PROGRAM/weather

 

[Jack Rackham]

Ye that fixed it. Thanks @ Tingyun.