• New Horizons on Maelstrom
    Maelstrom New Horizons


    Visit our website www.piratehorizons.com to quickly find download links for the newest versions of our New Horizons mods Beyond New Horizons and Maelstrom New Horizons!

Improved Ship of Line 74 guns

K

Kazeite

Privateer
Storm Modder
This is what I've been doing for past few days: making 74-gun and shaking my head with disbelief.

<img src="http://republika.pl/kazeite/images2/Sol_74_gun.jpg" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />

I've added gunports and guns and made a new skin, because frankly... I believe the original attempt to create 74-gun shouldn't even be in the mod in the first place <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad.gif" />

Why? It's simply: its creator didn't had the sense of self-criticizm. He had the enthusiasm, the means of reskinning ship and adding extra cannon locators... but couldn't or wouldn't see that his work is not good enough. That his skills aren't good enough.

Easy for me to say, huh? Well, no. You see, I've had another ship, Indiaman, reskinned and remodeled. It was basically ready for importing into the game when I realized that it's not good enough; doesn't look good enough. As a result, I've decided not to release this particular ship. So, let me repeat: it's important to be able to see that your work isn't good enough, to realize that you shouldn't release such sub-standard models.

This mod doesn't deserve that.

I mean, look at this ship - the original stock <i>Black Pearl</i> had gunports textures which were slightly larger than actual modelled gunports - and yet, original 74-gun has even bigger gunports textures. Why? Shouldn't it be obvious that gunports textures are too big? The same thing goes for windows added at the rear. When one looks at the model, they have two different heights, because of the way textures are wrapped around the model. The obvious answer was to rescale window textures to match their apparent height, and yet this mistake remained uncorrected.

But the biggest display of.... laziness... I can't call it any other way, is when one looks at the locators of the new cannon. They aren't even properly aligned with newly added gunports! I realize this is quite tedious job, but at the same time it's the easiest part of entire work. If one cannot be bothered to properly align necessary locators, he shouldn't be doing any modelling at all.

I'm sorry for such harsh words, but I simply believe that your work, our work, dare I say, deserves better. It deserves the ability to step back and notice whether one's doing a good job or not.
 
Harsh? Yes. Necessary? Yes as well. I applaud you for being honest and coming out and saying that. Know that you're not the only one that thinks that. As for your 74, I think it looks marvelous...finally a decent 74-gun vessel worth being in this mod!
 
I think I'd rather have Captain Hawk's 74 than no 74 at all. Which is how it would have been all these months if he hadn't released it into the game. And all the time I've been sailing one, I never noticed any of these problems until you pointed them out.

You might want to raise the water line on your ship. That yellow stipe across the very bottom that's above the water line should be at or below the water line for best effect. The ship just looks like it's riding way too high.

Is there any reason why the yellow stripe on the middle row of gun ports isn't the same color as the other two?

Other than that, the ship looks pretty good. I'll have to see it in the game before I can make a final judgement though.

Hook
 
74 guns!!! that makes me nervous. I'm playing with a tartarene currently - everything look massive compared to me(even the sharks - they are about the same size as me!), i cant think about meeting a 74 gun ship, i really cant, its just makes me worry <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

Thats an awesome model again Kazeite - some of you guys here are just too good, not that i'm complaining or anything, please keep making awesome ships for PotC! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/par-ty.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheers" border="0" alt="par-ty.gif" />
 
For the record, this is simply stock <i>Black Pearl</i> model with extra guns added.

<b>Hook</b>, the waterline of this ship is in roughly the same place as it was on original ships. But, if you, the resident tall ship expert, says so... <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" /> I guess that this permanent cannon ballast is bound to make her sit lower in the water, huh?

This'll most likely require repositioning all the locators, but since they need to be fixed anyway... <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":rolleyes:" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" />

The reason middle stripe is brighter is... well, I don't know. I thought it isn't. Which is another point I've neglected to say: You can't rely on your judgement alone <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

If you want to see her ingame, just download her from FTP, from my subdirectory. Simply copy model and texture to the apprioprate location.
 
another stunner! brilliant work, Kazeite. now..... my oppinion on it.......i can't see anything wrong with it other than the yellow lines.....but i would like to see the bow....would you mind giving us a look see? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/jackhat.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":j2" border="0" alt="jackhat.gif" />
 
You may be able to fix the waterline without a lot of work by changing the line for the ship in ships_init.c that says:

refShip.WaterLine = 0.0;

I haven't messed with it, so I don't know what kind of effects you might see. Look at some of the other ships to see what ranges of values are appropriate.

I've got lots of pics of sailing ships. Half of them are the HMS Victory. There are a few pics of her sitting high in the water, like the pic you show, but most show her sitting much lower. It would depend on the lading of the ship, but I don't know if the game models that. Every now and then I see a ship in the game that looks like it should be hydroplaning, and it bugs me. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

The 74 is a pretty good ship. It's way overpowered for the game, but that's a feature, not a bug, when you're going after a fort. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" /> You can see around all the sails when standing at the rail on the back deck (except for that !%#@# spritsail) which is not true for all those ships. It doesn't sail really well, but sails well enough for a big ship.

I posted a pic not long ago of a 74 crossing my stern at under 50 yards when my sloop was dismasted. I've got a mod that won't allow you to turn if your sails are gone, too. But after the next volley I ended up in a very nice lifeboat, with which I captured that 74. I just had to keep out of the gun arcs. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" /> A 74 is a great opponent as it makes you work for a victory.

Kazeite, keep in mind that we're all working on this together, and none of us are perfect. It's not so much that the ship "shouldn't have been in the mod" but that "it had some room for improvement." Actually, I'm sure every ship in the game is that way in some aspect or another.

If you're able to clean it up and make it better, great! I like the 74 anyway, and there's nothing wrong with a better version of it.

Hook
 
I personally don't care for the color scheme, but that's just me. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/whistling.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":wp" border="0" alt="whistling.gif" />

It does look pretty good, maybe its just all the stripes that kinda throw me.
 
OK, thanks. I've just got a little upset with that ship. You're right, "it has some room for improvement" is better approach <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

And <b>Hook</b>, I'm counting on you to help me make <i>Victory</i> as perfect as possible <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />
 
For a project like that, you should get Petros involved as well, he makes some of the most beautiful skins I've ever seen. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/me.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":onya" border="0" alt="me.gif" />
 
yeah...now, THAT would be an unbeatable combo....Kazeite for the model, Hook for the detailed info, and Petros for the looks.....i think we have a royal flush here <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/jackhat.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":j2" border="0" alt="jackhat.gif" />
 
The ships in this game(especially the moded game) are what makes me enjoy 3D sailing mode so much - i think they and the way they move make this game enchanting to me - something special you will rarely see in a modern computer game. Old ships(tall ships if you like) have always captivated me, even as a kid. I would get to see the tall-ships race in weymouth and just marvel at the complexity of them - and the beauty. Its something special about wooden hulled ships - they have a certain magic imho.

Anyway i've had some thoughts on ships in the game, and will post those in the 'new mods/ideas' thread in the alpha/beta......' section at some point with more detail. basicaly i've been thinking about the game balance from game start, and how ship type selected can play a big part in adding some imbalances.

So i've been thinking what about a wider selection of smaller ships at game start? Its a bit dull just having the tatarene(sp?) as the only available small ship in the game. Even with the Lugger as the default starting ship i find it is maybe 'too good'? and too easy to make lots of money with in a short space of time?

Anyway i'm not thinking on complete new designs(although if the fancy took hold and people wanted to create new ones great!) for more small ships, rather resizing and re-classification of current ships. e.g. a small sloop style ship/26men etc?
I know people love the big ships in this game, but what do you think about having a wider selection of smaller ships(class7) that you choose from at game start - then build up to the bigger ships?

Oh also(and this is no critisism as its my current favourite ship!) the Lugger VML seems much larger than it should for its class? I was mored up next to a regular sloop the other day(so a class above) and my gorgeous VML was a third larger in size, but about the same cargo capacity as a regular Lugger? I dont know how easy it is to just resize a model - or maybe we could change the VML stats, make it a class higher and increase/change its stats to reflect that? it would become the 'ultimate Lugger'! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

Its not an issue, just wondering if anyone else had noticed?
 
@Kazeite, if you are remodelling the ship, could you please put a steeringwheel on it, and the bell that is also on the surprise and your black pearl.
 
<b>Black Bart</b>, like I said, personally I'd like to focus on bigger ships.

<b>Thomas</b>, since I'm rather displeased with this ship (which is basically stock <i>Black Pearl</i> with extra gunports), I don't intend to work on it anymore. Instead, I intend to make another 74-gun, using another ship as a base.
 
the keys to a stunning looking ship in PotC: anchor, wheel, realistic amount of rigging, ship's bell, random bits and bobs scattered on the deck [optional]
keys to a well balanced ship: realisitc limitations, balanced stats [not nessecary in the Black Pearl's case]....

looking at the above, i think the Black Pearl has hit the jackpot....can the HMS Victory and 74 be the same if not better?
 
<!--quoteo(post=168677:date=Oct 24 2006, 08:45 PM:name=Kazeite)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Kazeite @ Oct 24 2006, 08:45 PM) [snapback]168677[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
<b>Black Bart</b>, like I said, personally I'd like to focus on bigger ships.

<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Of course - you got to have a passion for this kind of work <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

Well i do have 3D max - not sure what version, it was a bargin 'car-boot' buy(£20!!) and have had a look at it, before getting very lost <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" /> It seems 3D modling software has come along way since the amiga days!

Anyway when i get around to looking at what i was thinking ref re-sizeing current ships to make smaller versions, i may ask for a few pointers if thats ok? dont worry this wont be for a while i suspect - and i wont demand much, i would feel guilty taking up the time you could be spending on the work you're doing here <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />
 
Well, resizing ships would require keeping the size of some elements (cannons, gunports, etc) constant, which in turn would require detaching such elements from the ship before the resizing operation.

Plus, there's a matter of the path file. Path file is invisible path that player can walk on while on the ship. Effectively, you're not walking on the ship - you're walking on the path. And since path is separate from the ships model, it'd have to be resized as well.

I know that TOOL has resizing option, but I don't know whether it can correctly resize path or not...
 
I forgot to tell you what a great job you're doing, Kazeite! Well done! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/w00t.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":woot" border="0" alt="w00t.gif" />
 
<!--quoteo(post=168713:date=Oct 25 2006, 09:41 AM:name=Black Bart)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Black Bart @ Oct 25 2006, 09:41 AM) [snapback]168713[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
<!--quoteo(post=168677:date=Oct 24 2006, 08:45 PM:name=Kazeite)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Kazeite @ Oct 24 2006, 08:45 PM) [snapback]168677[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
<b>Black Bart</b>, like I said, personally I'd like to focus on bigger ships.

<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Of course - you got to have a passion for this kind of work <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

Well i do have 3D max - not sure what version...........edit
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I have version 5 - i think this is no good for using with PotC is it?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top