Let's talk ships

[Skeletor9292]

I've been reading up on ship types love this game but naval knowledge is kind of low
Let's discuss
Ship types sizes used etc. What types should engage and run in certain situations etc.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

There's a lot to be said I suppose; but I wouldn't consider myself an expert.

You could start with the "New Horizons Ship Recognition Guide.pdf" file in the mod's "Documentation" folder.

 

[Grey Roger]

Ship sizes - or more accurately, crew sizes - are indicated by the ship's class, also known as tier. Tier 8 is the smallest, tier 1 is the biggest. You don't want to get close to something with lower tier number, i.e. larger crew, than your own ship, unless you, your officers and preferably your crew are well armed, well armoured and well skilled in melee. The larger ship will board you and, with larger crew and a skilled captain, will probably win. However, if you, your officers and your crew are well prepared, this is a good way to get yourself a better ship!

Ships with fore and aft sails, such as sloops, can sail at reasonable speed across the wind. Ships with square sails can't go fast unless the wind is behind them. If you're in a small ship with fore and aft sails and you're being chased by an enemy frigate, turn at right angles to the wind and you should be able to outrun the enemy. Schooners are nice, they are among the largest types with fore and aft sails.

Larger ships tend to be slower and harder to turn. A tier 1 ship of the line can't outsail much except another tier 1 ship of the line, or a fort. Frigates are smaller than ships of the line so they're faster and more agile, yet still pack plenty of firepower.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Larger ships tend to be slower and harder to turn.

Is that realistic?
I used to believe that until I learned that top speed depends on waterline length.
Longer ship can go faster.

That suggests a Tier 1 should be able to outsail a Frigate when there's enough wind from astern...

 

[Grey Roger]

Is that realistic?
I used to believe that until I learned that top speed depends on waterline length.
Longer ship can go faster.

That suggests a Tier 1 should be able to outsail a Frigate when there's enough wind from astern...

It also suggests that a tanker should be able to outrun a speedboat. Clearly top speed does not depend entirely on waterline length.

Captain Jack Sparrow would probably also disagree while he's standing on HMS Interceptor and you're on HMS Dauntless.

There's also the matter of acceleration. HMS Victory might have a top speed similar to, or better than, HMS Surprise, if there's enough wind and if they're sailing in a straight line long enough for HMS Victory to reach that speed. (And if you don't sail into range of the next island, triggering a "Land Ho" reset!) In practice, I still reckon that a frigate would be faster than a 1st rate ship of the line while they're manoeuvring in battle, and would certainly turn more quickly.

(How much wind is "enough wind" anyway? If it's strong enough for a Tier 1 to match speed with a Tier 4, is it also strong enough that they need to reduce sail if they want to keep their masts?)

 

[Pieter Boelen]

It also suggests that a tanker should be able to outrun a speedboat. Clearly top speed does not depend entirely on waterline length.

That's comparing a displacement ship with a planing one.
It doesn't apply to non-displacement vessels like that.

There's also the matter of acceleration. HMS Victory might have a top speed similar to, or better than, HMS Surprise, if there's enough wind and if they're sailing in a straight line long enough for HMS Victory to reach that speed. (And if you don't sail into range of the next island, triggering a "Land Ho" reset!) In practice, I still reckon that a frigate would be faster than a 1st rate ship of the line while they're manoeuvring in battle, and would certainly turn more quickly.

That's certainly true.
Big and bulky can't help with manoeuvring.

(How much wind is "enough wind" anyway? If it's strong enough for a Tier 1 to match speed with a Tier 4, is it also strong enough that they need to reduce sail if they want to keep their masts?)

Ouch; that's a tough one!
I honestly wouldn't know.
I assume that could differ massively from ship to ship.

Perhaps a Tier 4 might need to reduce sail before a Tier 1 might.
Assuming that the bigger ship has stronger material.

I've also, with my own boat, confirmed that reducing sail doesn't necessarily mean a decrease in speed.
Heel angle doesn't help with speed.
Neither does drift angle.
Or the arm of a sail being too far outside the fore-and-aft plane.

Hornblower did win his battle against that Spanish ship of twice his size in the Pacific.
That rings true to me.
It was a tough fight with the skill of captain and crews making a big difference.
But clearly bigger isn't always better.

 

[Grey Roger]

That's comparing a displacement ship with a planing one.
It doesn't apply to non-displacement vessels like that.

Alright, try a WW2 battleship against a WW2 destroyer. The fastest battleships could do up to 30 knots. Destroyers could generally manage 36 knots.

According to Wikipedia, HMS Victory had a top speed of 11 knots. HMS Endymion had a top speed of 14.4 knots and could do 11 knots close-hauled.

Perhaps a Tier 4 might need to reduce sail before a Tier 1 might.
Assuming that the bigger ship has stronger material.

It would need stronger masts to be able to support the larger sails which it would need to move at any worthwhile speed. But then, those larger sails would generate more force in a strong wind. I don't know how the size of sails versus strength of mast would balance out when deciding which ship needs to take in sail first. (But I do know which ship is going to be quicker to turn into the wind and avoid capsizing. )

I've also, with my own boat, confirmed that reducing sail doesn't necessarily mean a decrease in speed.

Would it not depend on sail type and wind direction? I'd imagine that in some conditions, one sail might not be getting any wind because another is in line with it and blocking it. Or the spinnaker would be your main driving force in a run and useless, possibly even a hindrance, when close-hauled.

Hornblower did win his battle against that Spanish ship of twice his size in the Pacific.
That rings true to me.
It was a tough fight with the skill of captain and crews making a big difference.
But clearly bigger isn't always better.

Like PoTC, that was fiction. In reality, smaller English race-built galleons outsailed bigger Spanish types. The Spanish designed their own fast galleons to counter them.