Whats Next?

[FireBat]

If you are like me, you like to collect a bit of booty. :treas I like having at least 5 of each items stored in my treasure chest aboard my ship. However, I have noticed a serious lack of variety. I mean, come on 4 different rings, 1 broach, 1 pendant 1 necklace etc etc etc
Unacceptable I say! As the power failures were plaguing my little town, I was at my mom's place, where she has 3 generations of family jewelery (mostly costume, dont get excited ) So while waiting for the power to come on, I was taking pictures in preperation of adding a whole whack of pirate booty.

I have a variety of gems (amethyst, topaz) pendants, broachs, necklaces, bracelets, earings, rings, etc

My hope is to add at least 100 new items just of pirate loot. The plan is to photoshop a lot of this jewelery so that if the picture was taken of a gold ring with a diamond in it, it will be 'shoped' so that there is a ring that is silver with a diamond in it etc etc

Of course, not all of it will be worth a fortune, there will be 'junk' stuff as well....but I will be adding quite of bit of stuff.

GET READY FOR SOME BOOTY MATEYS!!!! :mi

(Plus on top of everything the code for this simple, even I can do it )

 

[Darkhymn]

Another great idea from the mind of the FireBat
I'm looking forward to this one already.

 

[Thagarr]

More booty is ALWAYS a good thing!

 

[Darkhymn]

No video, but this band is AWESOME

 

[Thagarr]

Aye mate, they have some good piratey tunes!

Don't get me started on pirate music! :

Too late! This group of lads preform at ren fairs and other pirate gatherings, I have yet to have the chance to see them in person, but they are pretty good! they have released some of their stuff on albums, you can hear more over at their web page HERE!

 

[Darkhymn]

Oddly, that one gets me thinking about music in the taverns
But let's not hijack this thread.

On topic, now that the various voodoo idols no longer serve any purpose, perhaps we could re-skin some of them a bit to look more... well, lootable, and increase their values and rarities. Just a thought.

 

[Thagarr]

Aye! That one always makes me thirsty!

Ah yes, back on topic...

That sounds like a good idea mate, and would help increase the booty as well!

Just working a bit on the new book template, 1024X1024 is making things ...err interesting!

 

[Luke159]

A little side stepping of topic here:

Got to like the pirate music, and that last one would go well in the tavern.

Back on topic:

FB, your becoming a legend mate, another great idea and another part of the game that was seriously lacking any depth. I like the thourght "mom this is really nice jewelery would look good in COAS can i take some pictures that way i can loot it from the dead bodies of all those who dared attack me, thanks." :

On a more serious note, the second patch for CMV3 is starting to look very special, not just fixes and a few changes but big changes and big improvements. There's yourself, Darkhymn and Thagarr doing amazing things and John W. Hamm going over the ships cargohold's to make them more realistic in how much they might have been able to hold. He's using a different methode than i did while my cargohold value's was based on ship type, xlass and some on there size he's actually taking there sizes, amount of guns mounted crews quaters etc checking online for real value's if none then going by his mesurements and calculating the value from there. Thats not all though he's also doing the speeds to be based more on real value's and the amount of crew the ships can hold. Myself as you no i'm testing the game with realistic ship purchase turned on. I have a problem with ship_68 not been generated so i have gone through ship_init and ship.H comparing the two files with each other to make sure each ship that is clased is classed correctly in both files as that can course problems. I fixed one ship that was classed as a 6th rate ship in ship_init and a 5th rate ship in ships.H but that didn't fix the problem. I have gone over the shiputilities file so many times i can almost tell you the order of each ship without looking and fixed a few problems in there but that didn't fix the problem, so rather than spend several more hours trying to locate the problem i'm going to narrow it down by play testing on a new game and then checking off each ship type i come across. I should be able to norrow it down alot from there. I have done the weather update but requires more editing and what not (on hold till the realistic ship purchase bug is fixed) and thats about it for now. Everything else i was working on is finished.:will

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Call me crazy, but I'm always inclined to think there's not too much use in adding stuff that doesn't offer more gameplay value. For example, I know people like more weapons, but I've always maintained that having 100 different blades in the game doesn't really help. For one thing, it's confusing and it also clutters up the inventory.

The same applies to lootable items. Although some variety is certainly nice, as they say in Germany, "In der Beschränkung zeigt sich der Meister". In English that means something to the extent of "In the limit we see the master". In other words, the true master doesn't go overboard with things.

I personally even find this applies to adding ships to the game. Although having 100s of different ships in the game, at some point you have to question if adding more ships is actually adding much/anything to the game. And if there IS a good new ship to add, maybe some of the older and not-so-good ones should be removed.

One of the main things we did and are doing in the PotC Build Mod to be able to have lots of content, but don't have so much that you "can't see the forest anymore because of the trees" (= another translated saying, Dutch this time) is to split things up in different time periods. There IS still lots of ships, but they don't exist at the same time. We're still working on applying this to weapons as well.

Anyway, here's a different proposal. What if you would make only a couple of "loot" items, but put a collage of different trinkets on the interface picture and give them item names such as "Small Loot", "Medium Loot" and "Massive Loot".

Is there a "Sell All Loot" button in CoAS? That's one of the things that was added in the PotC Build Mod and it's quite a convenient button. In the item trade interface, you just press that and it auto-sells all loot items that don't offer skill enhancements and all useless blades. If there isn't one in CoAS, it is even more important to prevent having too many lootable items in the game, because you'd have to sell each item type seperately, which makes for a lot of semi-pointless clicking to finally be able to get the money for your loot.

I know the above is probably not going to be a popular view, but I hope you'll consider them and put any potential value in there to good use.

 

[Thagarr]

I know the above is probably not going to be a popular view, but I hope you'll consider them and put any potential value in there to good use.

I have yet to read one of your posts that didn't have value Pieter, and you bring up some very good points in this one mate. It's just the prospect of more booty always gets me going! Perhaps if we weeded out some of the idols that don't add to skill points anymore, and some of the really worthless loot, that might help balance things up a bit more. Though I do rather like the idea of small, medium and large piles of loot, it would make it easier to sell. If I recall correctly, part of that is already in the stock game. I know a ran across one pile of loot at one point. But it's been a while since I have really played the game, some of it is a bit fuzzy in my brain pan. I don't think there is a sell all button like in the build mod, but that would sure be handy!

 

[FireBat]

Thargarr you are correct There is a 'loot pile' already sorta....

Pieter does bring up a valid point. Tho, I would like nothing more than to sit here and create 1000's of loot items (i could after all the pictures i took) I don't want to go overboard, yet at the same time, I don't want the player to get bored with picking up the same items over and over when they loot chests and bodies. I want the player to be excited with what they will find. Players like me who actually collect in game items discouraged quite quickly with the lack of loot variety.

So...

We will meet in the middle on this one....


The original plan was to introcduce a variety of cuts to the gem stones. Each gem would have 3 cut varieties. Instead I will just be adding the following gem stones:
Amethyst

Bloodstone

Fire Opal

Topaz

Smoky Quartz

The number of rings, pendants, broaches, necklaces, will also be drastically reduced.


HOWEVER....
If a sell loot button was to be created (how the heck do u make a button anyway?) Then I wouldn't hesitate to move forward with the cut varieties, and bump up the list of jewelry. I am even debating adding a scepter and crown, yet that would probably only be found in the rarest of treasure chests, and when found, a quest might begin so that you either bring it back to the rightful owner, for a small reward and a boost in your rep, or you pawn it off to a special character, your rep goes down, but you get a bigger reward.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Adding a button requires interface work. That is one part of the coding that I personally am not at all comfortable with. I managed to do a little here and there, but only when it comes to changing some stuff that's already there. Pirate_KK, however, has been known to make interfaces from scratch.

 

[FireBat]

Well, the sell all loot button can wait. Pirate_KK has so much work on the go, being that build 14 has to be finished up. In the meantime, we will finish up the books mod, and after that is done I will work on a smaller version of the loot mod until a button can be made.

 

[modernknight1]

Mates,

I understand where Pieter is coming from and agree with him to a small extent. Above all other things I do to relax, I consider myself a gamer first and foremost. I have probably wasted a quarter of my life playing games and simulations....I know sad isn't it.

Some of you have heard me say before that this is an art form. I know Pieter and others really get into the questlines and the stories piece and that's where the fun of gameplay is for them. Myself coming from a background of over 20 years served as a military officer and the last half of it as a developer and manager/consultant for military games, simulations and simulators, I gravitate to immersive realism. The story is less important for me than the environment I'm in. If the immersive environment is good I will create my own story with my string of conquests and adventures.

Yes I know I could help out way more here technically, but doing this for a living, I just don't have the drive to when I have my own time. As it is, this hobby (this game genre and modellers here on PA) have driven me to invest a whole lot of my time into an expensive education in 3D rendering. When I have my own time I mostly play to relax and blow off stress.

The games and communities I participate in/play are Empire Total War (with mods), Medieval Total War II (Deus Lo Vult 6.2), Mount & Blade (Warband), and COAS CMv3. What do all these games have in common? Foremost they all have incredible immersive depth which I think can be directly attributed to authenticity and variety. Next, I play them with my two college aged sons, third, they're historical and specifically the mod versions give each of them them a wonderful depth and variety of options that their base versions don't have nearly so much, and last they are all visual feasts for the eye and senses. The Empire mods have added dozens of new types of regiments, special units, uniforms, etc. Deus Lo Vult adds tons of new textured towns/cities on the strategic view with spicific regional features, it offers tons of new factions with unique unit types and the random entity generation in formations when you play at tactical level means that you get a wonderful variety of different soldiers, weapons, armor, shields/pennants/heraldry textures within the various formations. In COAS CMv3.1 you get TONS of wonderful ships, characters, weapons and items.

Truthfully I would never have played vanilla COAS beyond solving the main quests and it would've gone back on the shelf as soon as I did. The reason I'm so freakin hooked is because of the amazing and immersive depth the mods add. I truly believe being in charge all the time also makes me a little ADHD and so I love constant variety and new diversion.

All this to say that I am of the opinion that: More is better! I want more ships and weapons and items! Why, so I never know what I'm gonna run into or find next. More means that the special stuff is that much more special. When I do happen on to the really good stuff or the really awesome naval encounters with a slew of great shipsI have to choose what I'm gonna drop and which ship(s) I'm gonna try to take for myself. Like FireBat, I am a collector and my chest on my own ship is full of several of each of my favorite items. I agree that we can get rid of a little bit of crappy stuff, but I'm still of the opinion that we should keep a bunch of crappy stuff. Why? Because the crappy stuff makes the good stuff all that much better. The crappy ship is fun to destroy and you don't give a damn about selling it. The good ones cause you to really mull over which you want more. For any of you that collected baseball cards or Star Wars cards or comics or whatever, there's always a bunch of something you don't really want, but you have em anyway because there's just more. It's like one of those universal truths. So I say more ships and more books and MORE booty! There needs to be black in order to appreciate the white Mateys - or vice versa.

MK

 

[Pieter Boelen]

I like the storylines, true enough, but that's not all I like. If that's all I cared for, I wouldn't care about such things as the Periods mod. The main thing I'm trying to think of is, shall we say, the regular/more casual gamer.

To me, "more" is a double-edged sword. More means:
- More variety (Obvious)
- More download size (Also obvious, but a really big pain!)
- More potential confusion (I've got 100 different swords! Which one should I use???)
- More clicking (Selling all different loot items manually)
- More code complication (More code = more complication)

I'm not saying that "more" should never be added. As you point out, variety IS very important. Although I might be mistaken, I think that the "collector" type of player is not a very common type. Therefore, I think a balance needs to be found between adding more stuff and keeping things small and simple.

As an example, I'd bring up ship models. We are now in a period of game modding where we've gotten LOTS of new custom-made high-detail ship models. When the first custom-made ship model was made, it was something genuinely special and the decision to add it or not was a non-issue.

However, as more and more is made, I begin to wonder "what does a perfectly good model actually add to the game"? Especially when the models that are being made are all fairly similar in a way, for example a lot of them are brigs or most of them are British ships.

In that case, I begin to think that although they add *some* variety, they don't actually add all that much. But they DO add a lot of download size. But since they ARE admittedly better than the stock game models, that results in me thinking of just removing other ships instead.

However, I would be much more interested in the modeling efforts focusing on areas where we don't have enough variety with. To remain with the example from above in which many of the ships modeled are British brigs, I would be much more interested in a Spanish galleon or a French frigate being made than in another British brig.

Of course, the above is more a guideline than a rule. Basically just something to think about. I'll never actually object to any person's modding efforts and for the PotC Build Mod, I'll always be sure to put any good content that's made to good use in the modpack.

 

[Luke159]

To counter this they could add a switch which if truned on will allow for more lootable iteam's while the casual gamer could play the game as it is without the added iteam's. Also if its in exe form then that reduced the size but if the exe is rared it will be even quicker to download.

 

[Captain Maggee]

7-Zip and then make that an exe file is the way to go... Rar can often be 2 times bigger than 7z (for example PROGRAM and RESOURCE/INI for PotC Rars down to 4mb where it 7zips down to 2mb)

To make a 7-Zip file into exe you just need to hit SFX archieve when ziping it and then the person extracting it doesnt need 7-zip to extract it

 

[Pieter Boelen]

And there's the truth of it! 7-Zip self-extracing EXE files are brilliant!
They're as small as they'll get and you don't actually need 7-Zip to extract them!

 

[FireBat]

I agree that we can get rid of a little bit of crappy stuff, but I'm still of the opinion that we should keep a bunch of crappy stuff. Why? Because the crappy stuff makes the good stuff all that much better.

Well said my friend. Be warned that I will not just be adding really fancy expensive stuff here. In a game such as this there is a careful balanced that has to be maintained. So i will be adding some stuff that you would probably not want to pick up, or at least would be very willing to sell it.

To me, "more" is a double-edged sword. More means:
- More variety (Obvious)
- More download size (Also obvious, but a really big pain!)
- More potential confusion (I've got 100 different swords! Which one should I use???)
- More clicking (Selling all different loot items manually)
- More code complication (More code = more complication)

I'm not saying that "more" should never be added. As you point out, variety IS very important. Although I might be mistaken, I think that the "collector" type of player is not a very common type. Therefore, I think a balance needs to be found between adding more stuff and keeping things small and simple.

The download size I can see being a pain (especially if I do add thousands of item, it'll be a really big pain) However, the confusion in this case I dont see happening. These are plain loot items. They have no use except to be sold, and looked at cause they're all peeerty. If the 'sell all loot' button gets put in then the extra click will be avoided, yet on that same note, your character can only carry so much loot in the first place, so I don't know if there would be any extra clicking.

The code however (and is always the case with me) will be the complicated part. Which brings me to the important part. Not only will these items have to be coded into exsistance, they will also have to be put in treasure map quest chests, and incorperated into other quests (i think) But thats not the worse part. The question is: Will all these extra items slow loading time between screens? Will interfer when you loot a corpes and there is a huge list of items that has to be generated for the program to figure out what items you will find in said corpes? These are questions that need to be answered now, not only for my mod, but as we move forward with other mods. There were many items added to POTC but not as many as I am purposing the end result will be just from the end product loot mod. (once we have "THE BUTTON")
These are all the thought process I am going through before I bring this sucker together

 

[Pieter Boelen]

I don't think game performance will suffer much, if at all, trough adding lots of items.
Also, since it's just a bunch of image files and not also dozens of high-detail models with high-detail texture files (eg. ships), I don't think this mod would be too heavy on download size either. The main gameplay issue is probably the clicking thing.

When "THE BUTTON" is added, I'd say that completely defeats the purpose of the mod. If you're going to insta-sell it all without ever seeing it, what's the point of going through a lot of trouble making all those items in the first place?

The list I posted above was a general one. It doesn't all apply to this particular example. Confusion with loot would be fairly non-existant, as you say. The main confusion is when adding 100s of different weapons, which some people have been requesting, but I have always been discouraging to a certain extent.

Although variety is definitly good, personally I'd be inclined to argue that the efforts in making this mod could be better put to something that adds more to gameplay. Anyway, I've made my point and I trust you'll be able to make use of my suggestions wherever you see fit.