A couple of questions about the stock game

[Lonious]

I'm currently working on recording a playthrough and have been experiencing some serious lags in the OBS videos, and am still trying to find out the cause (and if there's any way around that). That aside;

1 - How do you win against a squad of four better ships alone? Is this even possible? The AI seems to be significantly more clever on sea than on land.

2 - During the game, you'll sometimes see townspeople chatting with each other. What are they actually talking about? Is there any info from the Dialog texts to reveal this?

Would be curious for some answers, thanks.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

How do you win against a squad of four better ships alone? Is this even possible? The AI seems to be significantly more clever on sea than on land.

Can't really speak from experience, but I'd say with odds that far against you, it makes sense if it is a bit unwinnable...

I have a vague memory of winning against the fleet that is sent to Greenford though.
By tricking them against the geography, perhaps...?

During the game, you'll sometimes see townspeople chatting with each other. What are they actually talking about? Is there any info from the Dialog texts to reveal this?

Lame answer, but...
It's just for show.
So they talk about nothing.
Or about whatever you want.
Up to you as player to interpret...

 

[Grey Roger]

1: Be in something a lot bigger than the enemy. For preference, either have good gunnery skills yourself, or have an officer with good gunnery skills. The enemy will probably want to use bombs, so you could try loading cannonballs and staying out of bomb range.

Or be really good at sailing, preferably in something agile, and try to stay in their stern arcs while zigzagging to fire your broadsides.

Or be very good at boarding and melee, and have a good weapon. Make sure to remove all your officers before boarding because they tend to die easily even with high skill, all the combat abilities and good swords.

Having a friendly fort on your side, such as the battle at Greenford, can also help.

Otherwise, you're outnumbered four to one with no special advantage. You're probably not going to win...

2: In the real world, you'll see people talking and have no idea what they're talking about unless you're invited into the conversation. Same here - maybe they're talking about the weather, maybe they're talking about their families. Or maybe one of them is talking to a soldier and reporting someone who keeps trying to listen in on private chats. In any case, dialog texts won't show anything about it, the texts only contain what people say to you and what you say to them.

 

[Lonious]

1: Be in something a lot bigger than the enemy. For preference, either have good gunnery skills yourself, or have an officer with good gunnery skills. The enemy will probably want to use bombs, so you could try loading cannonballs and staying out of bomb range.

It's apparently nigh impossible to defeat an enemy squadron if you're on a Class 3 or below ship and they have a corvette, and the ship closest to you when you enter battle is a Class 3 or below if that makes sense. The most powerful Class 3 ships are either galleons or brigs, and the former is just too slow while the latter isn't fast enough either.

So whenever I tried to enter battle in my feeble Class 4 Galeoth, and managed to capture a Class 3 but had to fight a frigate/corvette, I just ended up losing all the time. I guess I'll have to face the fact that some battles are unwinnable.

The AI just always goes for the broadside, and if their ship is better than yours, you're screwed. Sometimes I like to imagine how fun a multiplayer fight would be.

2: In the real world, you'll see people talking and have no idea what they're talking about unless you're invited into the conversation. Same here - maybe they're talking about the weather, maybe they're talking about their families. Or maybe one of them is talking to a soldier and reporting someone who keeps trying to listen in on private chats. In any case, dialog texts won't show anything about it, the texts only contain what people say to you and what you say to them.

Sure, but I wonder what code is going on while their conversation is happening, or is this basically unknown? Strange...for some reason, I tend to imagine they are actually putting up dialogs somehow, but I have a weird curiosity about how that would work. Or there is no Dialog occurring at all, and there simply is a trigger that activates the conversation animation without triggering any dialogs.

The town guards complain that no "beautiful women" talk to them - but I've seen female citizens converse with them numerous times.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

I guess I'll have to face the fact that some battles are unwinnable.

Real life says the same thing; so no surprises there.

Strange...for some reason, I tend to imagine they are actually putting up dialogs somehow

Means the mechanic works perfectly well for the atmosphere-building.

The town guards complain that no "beautiful women" talk to them - but I've seen female citizens converse with them numerous times.

Crazy ridiculous high standards they've got.
No girls are like the ones back home in Europe...

 

[Grey Roger]

It's apparently nigh impossible to defeat an enemy squadron if you're on a Class 3 or below ship and they have a corvette, and the ship closest to you when you enter battle is a Class 3 or below if that makes sense. The most powerful Class 3 ships are either galleons or brigs, and the former is just too slow while the latter isn't fast enough either.

That's why you want to be in a battleship. Of course, you won't get one of those right away...

So whenever I tried to enter battle in my feeble Class 4 Galeoth, and managed to capture a Class 3 but had to fight a frigate/corvette, I just ended up losing all the time. I guess I'll have to face the fact that some battles are unwinnable.

Which means your final resort is to try to save game when you see an enemy group closing in on you on the worldmap. If it turns out to be four ships including at least one corvette, reload. It also means you want to find a smaller group including a corvette and capture it.

The AI just always goes for the broadside, and if their ship is better than yours, you're screwed. Sometimes I like to imagine how fun a multiplayer fight would be.

If you can't win a battle against four computer opponents, you're definitely not going to win against four human opponents!

Sure, but I wonder what code is going on while their conversation is happening, or is this basically unknown? Strange...for some reason, I tend to imagine they are actually putting up dialogs somehow, but I have a weird curiosity about how that would work. Or there is no Dialog occurring at all, and there simply is a trigger that activates the conversation animation without triggering any dialogs.

The latter. They go into the dialog animation mode but there is no actual dialog. There wouldn't be any point - you can't read it because you're not in the conversation, and they can't read it because they're just computer models.

The town guards complain that no "beautiful women" talk to them - but I've seen female citizens converse with them numerous times.

The soldier who complains that no beautiful women talk to him might not be the same one you saw talking to a woman. The game simplifies things by having the same soldier character on duty every hour of every day; in reality they'd change over every so often. In any case, the game does not record which NPC talked to which other NPC, and when you talk to a soldier, he'll pick a random line from his text file. So it's entirely possible that he's just been talking to one of the local women, then complains that no beautiful women talk to him. Presumably he doesn't fancy her.

 

[Lonious]

Which means your final resort is to try to save game when you see an enemy group closing in on you on the worldmap. If it turns out to be four ships including at least one corvette, reload. It also means you want to find a smaller group including a corvette and capture it.

Well, fighting superior opponents was what I was after, but I suppose it's close to impossible in the game. Perhaps this style of play doesn't allow for as much skill gaps as in say FPS games.

The latter. They go into the dialog animation mode but there is no actual dialog. There wouldn't be any point - you can't read it because you're not in the conversation, and they can't read it because they're just computer models.

Solipsism much...

The soldier who complains that no beautiful women talk to him might not be the same one you saw talking to a woman. The game simplifies things by having the same soldier character on duty every hour of every day; in reality they'd change over every so often. In any case, the game does not record which NPC talked to which other NPC, and when you talk to a soldier, he'll pick a random line from his text file. So it's entirely possible that he's just been talking to one of the local women, then complains that no beautiful women talk to him. Presumably he doesn't fancy her.

In other words, high standards, as Pieter mentioned.

Another thing I'm curious about - when an enemy ship is captured, does its Captain "die"? I recall that the minimum number of crew a ship can contain is 1, so I presume that's the captain, and if you took that, would that save the captain?

I think I should try this out: have a friendly ship only have 1 crew left, then steal that remaining one in the ship swap. The ship will, of course, sink - but if the Officer survives, that means he was that one crew.

In particular, I want to know if, for instance, Silehard or Jurcksen reappear normally if their ships are boarded in Khael Roa? If they reappear with the same names, that means they lived, I guess. Additionally, I wonder if their ships do not appear in Khael Roa if I modded the code to allow them to be killed in hand to hand.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Well, fighting superior opponents was what I was after, but I suppose it's close to impossible in the game. Perhaps this style of play doesn't allow for as much skill gaps as in say FPS games.

It gets a bit different with New Horizons.
There the range in ships you encounter is much larger; and they aren't tied to the player at all.
So you could be completely overwhelmed; or the other way around.
Certainly the game, and mod especially, is tailored towards a semblance of realism; so no "Assassin's Creed muder-brigs" possible.

Solipsism much...

The game really does focus VERY much on only the player as a 'real' character.
Kind-of makes sense from a programming point of view.
Not so much from a role-playing one...

Another thing I'm curious about - when an enemy ship is captured, does its Captain "die"? I recall that the minimum number of crew a ship can contain is 1, so I presume that's the captain, and if you took that, would that save the captain?

Crew, captain and officers are handled completely independently by the code.
So don't expect things to make sense in this regards.

If you want the nitty-gritty coding part...
Even if a captain appears to survive and you capture/hire him/her, the original captain STILL dies.
You don't notice it, but the game actually makes a clone in secret.
This is necessary because quests check on the death of the captain; so otherwise if you don't kill him/her, the quest would be stuck.

In particular, I want to know if, for instance, Silehard or Jurcksen reappear normally if their ships are boarded in Khael Roa? If they reappear with the same names, that means they lived, I guess. Additionally, I wonder if their ships do not appear in Khael Roa if I modded the code to allow them to be killed in hand to hand.

If a ship-owner dies, their ship dies with them.
Doesn't make much real-life sense; but that's how the code handles it.

In New Horizons at least, you can fight and capture Silehard or Jurcksen after the boarding sea battles.

 

[Lonious]

It gets a bit different with New Horizons.
There the range in ships you encounter is much larger; and they aren't tied to the player at all.
So you could be completely overwhelmed; or the other way around.
Certainly the game, and mod especially, is tailored towards a semblance of realism; so no "Assassin's Creed muder-brigs" possible.


The game really does focus VERY much on only the player as a 'real' character.
Kind-of makes sense from a programming point of view.
Not so much from a role-playing one...


Crew, captain and officers are handled completely independently by the code.
So don't expect things to make sense in this regards.

If you want the nitty-gritty coding part...
Even if a captain appears to survive and you capture/hire him/her, the original captain STILL dies.
You don't notice it, but the game actually makes a clone in secret.
This is necessary because quests check on the death of the captain; so otherwise if you don't kill him/her, the quest would be stuck.


If a ship-owner dies, their ship dies with them.
Doesn't make much real-life sense; but that's how the code handles it.

In New Horizons at least, you can fight and capture Silehard or Jurcksen after the boarding sea battles.

I'll reply to this with another question about the stock game instead of making a new thread about it.

I had been doing a bit of surfing on real ships, and tried to find the real analogues to the better ships. Would this rough comparison be correct?

Corvette - 6th rate ship of the line (32 guns as opposed to historical 20-28 gun equivalents)
Frigate - 5th rate
Black Pearl/Fearless - 4th rate (they look bigger than frigates but smaller than battleships?)
Battleship - 3rd rate ("74")
Manowar - 1st rate (e.g. Dauntless from the movie, 100 guns)

I thought of replying to your post since afaik you were behind designing the more accurate ships for the mod.