Black Pearl=Black Frigate?

[EldritchNexus]

So I was reading the Wiki for Disney's Pirates of the Caribbean, and it says that the final boss in the 2003 game (the one which we know as Sea Dogs II) was originally going to be called the Black Frigate before it was renamed to Black Pearl to correspond to the Pirates of the Caribbean movie.

I was wondering if there was any truth to this? Are the people editing the wiki getting it mixed up with the Mefisto, which is also described as a "black frigate" in the game? Or is there some unspecified source that they didn't list that confirms this?

I was under the impression that the concept of a cursed ship being the final boss, or even being in the game at all, was a last-minute addition from when Disney converted Sea Dogs II into a POTC tie-in. If I'm mistaken though, please feel free to correct me.

 

[The Nameless Pirate]

I am not 100% sure, but I remember the Black Pearl being called a black frigate in a dialogue during the quest where you first learn about her.
Maybe this is where this comes from?

 

[Grey Roger]

The stock game's cursed ship is still in the modded game as "Lineship1" and can appear as a regular warship. It is certainly not the same as the Mefisto, which really was a black frigate in the stock game - it was almost the same as the standard frigate, but with a black and red texture, and with horns added to the stern. Neither were frigates in the usual sense, that being a ship with all its main guns on a single deck, though in the 17th century various ships were called "frigates" including some with two gun decks. (Even the 100 gun Sovereign of the Seas was described as "a delicate frigate (I think the whole world hath not her like)", which may be why Ewan Glover describes Silehard's ship as a frigate. Though not like the real Sovereign of the Seas in appearance, and named Belette in the stock game, Silehard's ship is also a 100 gun ship of the line.)

The stock Mefisto is still in the game, with improved detail to bring it up to the standard of other ships in the Build Mod. However, the standard frigate from the stock game is replaced by the "Kreyser" class, making the Mefisto unique in the modded game.

And the newer Black Pearl shows up at the end of "Tales of a Sea Hawk", that being the original storyline. The story is set in the "Colonial Powers" period, in which "Lineship1" may show up as a "5th Rate Warship". So you may end up owning all three ships and can compare them.

 

[EldritchNexus]

Thanks for the information, I'll be sure to contribute it to the POTC Wiki. But for the sake of this thread, it's just the actual name of the ship that I'm interested in. I am asking for verification from other people experienced with this game that the Black Pearl was originally called Black Frigate, or if someone on the POTC Wiki made a mistake and their edits need to be corrected.

 

[Foop my Car]

Thanks for the information, I'll be sure to contribute it to the POTC Wiki. But for the sake of this thread, it's just the actual name of the ship that I'm interested in. I am asking for verification from other people experienced with this game that the Black Pearl was originally called Black Frigate, or if someone on the POTC Wiki made a mistake and their edits need to be corrected.

I can vouch for all this information. Fun fact, if you look through the vanilla game files you can find a ship called "Fearless", a naval coloured Black Pearl stock but without a poop deck. Never appeared in the game (most likely for the original script before Disney).

 

[EldritchNexus]

So is it possible that the Black Pearl was called the Fearless before Disney came along?

 

[Grey Roger]

I am not 100% sure, but I remember the Black Pearl being called a black frigate in a dialogue during the quest where you first learn about her.
Maybe this is where this comes from?

Gordon Carpenter, the man who meets you in Falaise de Fleur port and takes you to the tavern, refers to the Black Pearl as "black frigate" once during his dialog. Otherwise he calls it "a boat with black sails" or just "ship". Henry Peat, who sits in a house in Falaise de Fleur and tells you the first part of the story, merely calls it "pirate ship" or just "ship". Owey McDorey, who gives you the chest, and the cursed pirates who take it from you, don't mention the Black Pearl at all. By comparison, the Mefisto is referred to as "frigate" or "black frigate" by various people, so if any ship was previously going to be identified as "Black Frigate", that's the more likely candidate. As I said, in the 17th century, "frigate" could mean all sorts of warship, so the fact that some dialog calls the Black Pearl (or Mefisto) a "black frigate" is not much evidence that either ship should formally have been identified as "Black Frigate".

Fun fact, if you look through the vanilla game files you can find a ship called "Fearless", a naval coloured Black Pearl stock but without a poop deck. Never appeared in the game (most likely for the original script before Disney).

"Fearless" was not a variant of "Black Pearl". It exists in the modded game with different textures as "RN_Warship", "PO_Warship" and "SP_Warship", and in fact "PO_Warship" even uses texture file "Fearless.tga.tx", though the texture has been changed. It's simple to copy the stock "Fearless.tga.tx" into the modded game, and so here's how the ship looks:


For comparison, here's the stock "Black Pearl", present in the modded game as "Lineship1":

"Fearless" has a more pronounced poop deck than "Black Pearl", and a flat, vertical stern. It lacks the jib sails and has only one square sail on the mizzen mast.

I was under the impression that the concept of a cursed ship being the final boss, or even being in the game at all, was a last-minute addition from when Disney converted Sea Dogs II into a POTC tie-in.

That is my impression as well. The whole chapter about the cursed coins appears to have been tacked on as an afterthought - the quest code is in "both_reaction.c" whereas the rest of the storyline quest code is in "quests_reaction.c", and the questbook entry for the coins is almost at the end of the questbook file "quests_text.txt". (Only the tutorial questbook entries are after the cursed coin section, and the tutorial quest code is also in "both_reaction.c", so the tutorial at the start of the game might also be a late addition.)

I wonder if "Fearless" was originally intended to be Silehard's flagship? Perhaps it was replaced by the big 100 gun ship to give him something more different from the Black Pearl, or perhaps it was replaced because "Fearless" is a fairly poor quality model even by stock game standards, but it was never completely removed.

 

[The Nameless Pirate]

Gordon Carpenter, the man who meets you in Falaise de Fleur port and takes you to the tavern, refers to the Black Pearl as "black frigate" once during his dialog. Otherwise he calls it "a boat with black sails" or just "ship". Henry Peat, who sits in a house in Falaise de Fleur and tells you the first part of the story, merely calls it "pirate ship" or just "ship". Owey McDorey, who gives you the chest, and the cursed pirates who take it from you, don't mention the Black Pearl at all. By comparison, the Mefisto is referred to as "frigate" or "black frigate" by various people, so if any ship was previously going to be identified as "Black Frigate", that's the more likely candidate. As I said, in the 17th century, "frigate" could mean all sorts of warship, so the fact that some dialog calls the Black Pearl (or Mefisto a "black frigate" is not much evidence that either ship should formally have been identified as "Black Frigate".

Yep, that's where I remember it from, Gordon Carpenter.
I don't think that it would have been named "Black Frigate" too, even if it technically is a black frigate. The reason for this is exactly that, if it was going to be a significant ship I don't believe it was going to have such a name. Mefisto and Black Pearl for example are names that make the ships feel unique, Black Frigate wouldn't.
That's without taking into consideration that there is not much evidence anyway.

The most I could see the name "Black Frigate" being is a temporary name before you learn the actual name.

Fun fact, if you look through the vanilla game files you can find a ship called "Fearless", a naval coloured Black Pearl stock but without a poop deck. Never appeared in the game (most likely for the original script before Disney).

"Fearless" was not a variant of "Black Pearl". It exists in the modded game with different textures as "RN_Warship", "PO_Warship" and "SP_Warship", and in fact "PO_Warship" even uses texture file "Fearless.tga.tx", though the texture has been changed. It's simple to copy the stock "Fearless.tga.tx" into the modded game, and so here's how the ship looks:


For comparison, here's the stock "Black Pearl", present in the modded game as "Lineship1":

"Fearless" has a more pronounced poop deck than "Black Pearl", and a flat, vertical stern. It lacks the jib sails and has only one square sail on the mizzen mast.

Indeed there are similarities. but I wouldn't call it a variant of the "Black Pearl".
If you compare let's say the variants of a (stock) Corvette there aren't these differences.

Though it should be noted that the rigging of "Lineship01" is improved from the stock game "Black Pearl".

That is my impression as well. The whole chapter about the cursed coins appears to have been tacked on as an afterthought - the quest code is in "both_reaction.c" whereas the rest of the storyline quest code is in "quests_reaction.c", and the questbook entry for the coins is almost at the end of the questbook file "quests_text.txt". (Only the tutorial questbook entries are after the cursed coin section, and the tutorial quest code is also in "both_reaction.c", so the tutorial at the start of the game might also be a late addition.)

This does make sense.
As much as I like this whole Black Pearl story. (I really do, especially since I actually first played the game.)
Aside from these missions the Black Pearl isn't mentioned, so the story could stay relatively the same without her.
The fact that they are later in the code is definitive proof of this I believe.

 

[Foop my Car]

Now that I think about it, the Fearless would make for a good model of the tv series Indefatigable.

 

[Grey Roger]

Though it should be noted that the rigging of "Lineship01" is improved from the stock game "Black Pearl".

True, but that doesn't excuse the flat, vertical stern.

As much as I like this whole Black Pearl story. (I really do, especially since I actually first played the game.)
Aside from these missions the Black Pearl isn't mentioned, so the story could stay relatively the same without her.
The fact that they are later in the code is definitive proof of this I believe.

The cursed coins look as though they were added as an afterthought. The cursed ship does not. It's the whole point of the story - you team up with Danielle to get the idol which opens the temple, where you're hoping to find gold and instead find an artifact which helps you defeat the cursed ship. The code for the battle against the cursed ship is in "quests_reaction.c", and nowhere near the end. There's no questbook entry for the final battle because you wouldn't be able to read it, as the stock game ends after the battle, but the questbook entry "Sneak into the temple" is also nowhere near the end of "quests_text.txt", it's before all the sidequest entries. So the same logic which indicates that the cursed coins were a late addition also indicates that the battle against the cursed ship was probably planned before the Disney deal. It would then have been fairly simple to change the names of the ship and its commander. Fun fact: the commander of the Black Pearl in the stock game is named "Barbossa", but has model "Offic_eng" - perhaps the cursed ship was originally supposed to have an English commander, or more likely the writers didn't care what model he used because you weren't going to see him anyway. So they never bothered to change him to use "pirat10".

If there was originally a different cursed ship before Disney got involved, what was it? Possibly "Fearless". Or possibly they already had the model which was subsequently named "Black Pearl". The code's name for the ship might not be the same as the name you'd see through a spyglass, in the same way that "Frigate_sat" is not Mefisto. So it's possible that the ship's entry in "Ships_init.c" might have been "Black Frigate" and it's even possible that the ship's visible name was also "Black Frigate". But without any solid evidence, that's just speculation. It's equally possible that the "Ships_init.c" entry, and maybe also the visible name, was "Grey Goose" or "Ultimate Ship".

 

[The Nameless Pirate]

True, but that doesn't excuse the flat, vertical stern.

Indeed, I just felt that it should be noted, even if this is only one of the deferences between the two ships.
Plus it turns out that the rigging is different on the stock game too.

The cursed coins look as though they were added as an afterthought. The cursed ship does not. It's the whole point of the story - you team up with Danielle to get the idol which opens the temple, where you're hoping to find gold and instead find an artifact which helps you defeat the cursed ship. The code for the battle against the cursed ship is in "quests_reaction.c", and nowhere near the end. There's no questbook entry for the final battle because you wouldn't be able to read it, as the stock game ends after the battle, but the questbook entry "Sneak into the temple" is also nowhere near the end of "quests_text.txt", it's before all the sidequest entries. So the same logic which indicates that the cursed coins were a late addition also indicates that the battle against the cursed ship was probably planned before the Disney deal. It would then have been fairly simple to change the names of the ship and its commander. Fun fact: the commander of the Black Pearl in the stock game is named "Barbossa", but has model "Offic_eng" - perhaps the cursed ship was originally supposed to have an English commander, or more likely the writers didn't care what model he used because you weren't going to see him anyway. So they never bothered to change him to use "pirat10".

Can't argue with that logic.

If there was originally a different cursed ship before Disney got involved, what was it? Possibly "Fearless". Or possibly they already had the model which was subsequently named "Black Pearl". The code's name for the ship might not be the same as the name you'd see through a spyglass, in the same way that "Frigate_sat" is not Mefisto. So it's possible that the ship's entry in "Ships_init.c" might have been "Black Frigate" and it's even possible that the ship's visible name was also "Black Frigate". But without any solid evidence, that's just speculation. It's equally possible that the "Ships_init.c" entry, and maybe also the visible name, was "Grey Goose" or "Ultimate Ship".

Indeed, without proof we can't say we know what happened.
Though if that's the case I wonder why they didn't rename Nathaniel in the code, he is still referred as Blaze.
Maybe because it was more work than the Black Pearl and Barbossa?

 

[Pieter Boelen]

@Volodymyr is in contact with some of the original game developers.
He kindly relayed this question and came back with this response from Ursus:

The details of the plot, which was redrawn to please Disney, are unknown to me. After all, there was no game ready to be adapted for Disney. But I do not exclude that the original idea can be found in the minds of a game designer. She didn't interest me. Then something else was more important. Perhaps Renat Nezametdinov knows - he was one of the screenwriters and game designers.

Unfortunately Renat Nezametdinov doesn't talk to "press" like us anymore these days.

So seems that the original intents are still a bit lost in the mists of time.

@EldritchNexus, you might be interested in watching this recent interview by @Volodymyr with Ursus:
Interview of Yuri Rogach
It doesn't say everything; but it certainly tells us more than we ever knew of the game's past before!

Thanks for the information, I'll be sure to contribute it to the POTC Wiki. But for the sake of this thread, it's just the actual name of the ship that I'm interested in. I am asking for verification from other people experienced with this game that the Black Pearl was originally called Black Frigate, or if someone on the POTC Wiki made a mistake and their edits need to be corrected.

In the original game as released in the Western world, the final boss was already the "Black Pearl"; even if the ship model wasn't even remotely film-accurate.
There was a 3D model named "Fearless" in the game files, which was not actually used anywhere in the game at all.

A named model like that probably indicates there was some story use intended for her.
But what that story actually would've been? Hard to say...
To me, "Fearless" sounds more like a HERO ship than a villain one.

As an overview, in the original game there were:
- "Black Pearl": inaccurate model; but certainly black and cursed and used as final boss of the main storyline
- "Mefisto": black frigate used as boss for the longest of the sidequests, about Animists (originally intended to be Satanists)
- "Fearless": completely unused model for an unknown purpose

 

[Foop my Car]

Given her naval looks, I'm having a guess the Fearless was intended to be captured by the player from Silehard's fleet captains or in an earlier mission. Or maybe a some plot that the Fearless and Black Pearl were actually sister ships and only one can defeat the other which makes the Fearless crucial?

 

[Grey Roger]

Another thought for "Fearless" is that perhaps it was meant for Danielle's story, not Nathaniel's. There was originally an intention to allow the player to choose to play as Danielle, which would have followed a different but parallel story. There are traces of this in the game files in the form of dialog files not used by anyone in the game, plus definitions for some characters who are also never used. One pair of the unused dialog files is "quest_my_sailor_tmp.c" and "quest_my_sailor_tmp.h", the latter of which includes this:

Spare me. Just what are we going to do, captain?
Did you see the French battleship anchored here?
Yes, I saw her. A fearsome ship indeed.
We're going to capture her.

The dialog continues on to a plan to blow up, rather than capture, the ship, and ends by triggering quest case "frigate_sink_preparation", which does not exist.

OK, so the name doesn't sound French; it's "Fearless", not "Fearsome"; and it's not exactly a battleship. But it could be a frigate by the 17th century definition which includes Mefisto and Black Pearl. Anyway, the dialog would have needed some work because case "First time" in "quest_my_sailor_tmp.c" is a random switch between four pairs of dialog text, but the first eight lines of "quest_my_sailor_tmp.h" look more like the beginning of the conversation which leads to the part about the battleship. The point is, there are vestiges of this alternative story in the form of unused files, and then there's "Fearless", an unused ship. Coincidence?

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Coincidence?

(Sorry... I just had to... )