Discussion Confused with the Rheims backstory

[Lonious]

Look again at that shot and pay attention to the bowsprits. It's difficult to be sure as they're obscured by fog or cannon smoke, but either the ships are sailing away from you, meaning the fort is to their left; or they're sailing towards you, straight at the fort. Either would make sense - one way is the same way they were sailing during the bombardment, the other is them closing to land troops after knocking out the fort's guns.

The big ship is sailing across the bay. The small ship in front of it is sailing across the big ship's bow and out of the bay. I suspect there is some artistic licence with that clip, which is not from gameplay as the ship is not a game ship. Precise angling of the ships relative to the island is less important than clearly showing the small ship heading for open sea while the big ship opens its gun ports ready for the assault on the fort. (Or perhaps the big ship originally tries to chase the small one, then the captain realises that (a) he can't catch it and (b) he has a more important target to engage which isn't going anywhere.)

If you pay this sort of attention to films, you'll find a lot of similar errors. In fact, there's been at least one TV series whose entire purpose is to spot the many mistakes in films. Consider this one of them.

True, storywise there was no English ship apart from the Victory and one other ship (probably Danielle's schooner Vertigo). Nathaniel doesn't mention any massive warship fighting off the French in his journal. I suppose I just noticed it because it looked bigger than any ship encountered in the game apart from the Belette, had three (?) gun decks, and was red, so I entertained the possibility that just maybe, the Belette was, in fact, there.

There are still others to find out about these game, these small details. I often like to observe these little things in a story I'm into. For example, who are the skeletons that dot the archipelago at night? At one point, I thought that they're members of the Black Pearl, guarding jungles and caverns just in case there are missing coins there, then found out this wouldn't make sense as they can be killed. By the way, Henry Peat wasn't under the effects of the curse (as you can hurt him), meaning to say he didn't spend the coins, I suppose.

And the group of soldiers Ewan Glover dropped off to Oxbay cave, I wonder if they had to fight those skeletons. "Our troops report undead skeleton warriors who attack any intruders they come across in the cave," they say to the governor.

Why Falaise de Fleur no longer fires on Nathaniel after the colony is recaptured (and when he talks to Virgile Boon), etc.

The animist storyline I could certainly see working excellently in Disney. There could be a whole new film (or comic book) with Jack Sparrow encountering them and their frigate, since fighting supernatural villains is always the plot of PotC films.

 

[Grey Roger]

True, storywise there was no English ship apart from the Victory and one other ship (probably Danielle's schooner Vertigo). Nathaniel doesn't mention any massive warship fighting off the French in his journal. I suppose I just noticed it because it looked bigger than any ship encountered in the game apart from the Belette, had three (?) gun decks, and was red, so I entertained the possibility that just maybe, the Belette was, in fact, there.

The battleship has the same three gun decks - the main gun deck behind the yellow stripe, the upper guns in the red part of the hull which are a continuation of the battery on the midships top deck, and some more guns on the quarterdeck. If you count gun decks the same way that the ship in the video has three gun decks, then the Belette has four.

There are still others to find out about these game, these small details. I often like to observe these little things in a story I'm into. For example, who are the skeletons that dot the archipelago at night? At one point, I thought that they're members of the Black Pearl, guarding jungles and caverns just in case there are missing coins there, then found out this wouldn't make sense as they can be killed. By the way, Henry Peat wasn't under the effects of the curse (as you can hurt him), meaning to say he didn't spend the coins, I suppose.

Bear in mind that this was originally going to be "Seadogs 2" before Akella and Disney made a deal to link the game to the then new "Pirates of the Caribbean" film. The skeletons in dungeons were probably always going to be there, nothing to do with the Black Pearl crew. The whole section about taking a chest of cursed coins and meeting unkillable cursed pirates appears to have been added as part of the link to the film; it's way out of sequence in the game code and has next to nothing to do with the progress of the main story. The glowy thing in the temple also owes nothing to the film.

As for Henry Peat:

Soon there were duels...and murder.
The best of us were killed, and I and several others were left on an island to die. Somehow we survived, but others were condemned by the curse.
They became the walking dead.

So the curse did not take effect until after Henry Peat had been evicted from the crew. Before that, but after they'd taken the coins, the crew could be killed.

And the group of soldiers Ewan Glover dropped off to Oxbay cave, I wonder if they had to fight those skeletons. "Our troops report undead skeleton warriors who attack any intruders they come across in the cave," they say to the governor.

Very possibly. Either such things are common in this version of the archipelago, in which case Silehard didn't think it worth mentioning to you; or he didn't believe reports of walking skeletons, in which case he didn't think it worth mentioning to you. Either way, he has more important things to say.

Why Falaise de Fleur no longer fires on Nathaniel after the colony is recaptured (and when he talks to Virgile Boon), etc.

Because you've been set at peace with France so that you can get into Falaise de Fleur to meet Virgile Boon. Afterwards, unless you start attacking French ships, they remain peaceful to you. Other nations are already at peace with you unless you start attacking them.

The animist storyline I could certainly see working excellently in Disney. There could be a whole new film (or comic book) with Jack Sparrow encountering them and their frigate, since fighting supernatural villains is always the plot of PotC films.

The Animists aren't supernatural villains, due to not being supernatural. They're regular mortal men who don't turn into skeletons and can be killed at any time of day or night. Anyway, if Disney does make another PoTC film, they'll have their own ideas without needing to borrow anything from the game.

 

[Lonious]

Bear in mind that this was originally going to be "Seadogs 2" before Akella and Disney made a deal to link the game to the then new "Pirates of the Caribbean" film. The skeletons in dungeons were probably always going to be there, nothing to do with the Black Pearl crew.

I haven't played the other Sea Dogs games, but isn't this the only one with skeletons in it? I'd always thought that the skeletons and their monkeys were added intentionally for a link to the film. And I'm referring to the random ones in jungles and caves, not just the Pearl's.

The whole section about taking a chest of cursed coins and meeting unkillable cursed pirates appears to have been added as part of the link to the film; it's way out of sequence in the game code and has next to nothing to do with the progress of the main story. The glowy thing in the temple also owes nothing to the film.

True. It seems the game's Black Pearl is also different in this respect. The crew are immortal, but the ship is "immortal" as well, requiring you to use the ball. In the film, the Black Pearl, even while cursed, wasn't implied to be invincible. In fact, Barbossa boarded the Dauntless specifically because he could seize a more powerful ship without losing any men.

As for Henry Peat:So the curse did not take effect until after Henry Peat had been evicted from the crew. Before that, but after they'd taken the coins, the crew could be killed.

Ah, I missed that one. I suppose another divergence from the film canon?

Very possibly. Either such things are common in this version of the archipelago, in which case Silehard didn't think it worth mentioning to you; or he didn't believe reports of walking skeletons, in which case he didn't think it worth mentioning to you. Either way, he has more important things to say.

It seems to be a superstition in the game lore, because the random jungle strangers tell you of legends about "dead men walking at night".

Now, maybe these "skeletons" are a type of ghost. Because when you kill them in the caves they come back. Perhaps they're troubled spirits of the men who'd died in these caves/dungeons, and they can't thrive under sunlight.

Which brings to me the observation that the Pearl's crew are ultimately defeated by the Incan Sun God's artifact. Plus the Inca temple Sun/Skull symbol...something about the duality of darkness/death and sunlight/life???

Because you've been set at peace with France so that you can get into Falaise de Fleur to meet Virgile Boon. Afterwards, unless you start attacking French ships, they remain peaceful to you. Other nations are already at peace with you unless you start attacking them.

Well, that's the external reason. But in-lore, ai wonder why. Maybe Nathaniel obtained a French flag which allowed him to moor in their port, and continued using this after Oxbay's liberation.

The Animists aren't supernatural villains, due to not being supernatural. They're regular mortal men who don't turn into skeletons and can be killed at any time of day or night. Anyway, if Disney does make another PoTC film, they'll have their own ideas without needing to borrow anything from the game.

They aren't supernatural during the story, but who knows what their ritual was for? I always felt their arc was kind of darker than even the Black Pearl's. These were men who intentionally sought out the devil.

 

[Grey Roger]

I haven't played the other Sea Dogs games, but isn't this the only one with skeletons in it? I'd always thought that the skeletons and their monkeys were added intentionally for a link to the film. And I'm referring to the random ones in jungles and caves, not just the Pearl's.

Could be. Perhaps the inhabitants of the caves were originally going to be human, so all the programmers did was change their models. Incidentally, in the Build Mod, the inhabitants of the caves and jungles are human for exactly that reason, someone changed them to use human models instead of skeletons. Monkeys still sometimes show up, though.

True. It seems the game's Black Pearl is also different in this respect. The crew are immortal, but the ship is "immortal" as well, requiring you to use the ball. In the film, the Black Pearl, even while cursed, wasn't implied to be invincible. In fact, Barbossa boarded the Dauntless specifically because he could seize a more powerful ship without losing any men.

Or perhaps because he just fancied having a bigger ship. Cursed or not, if I had the opportunity to trade the Pearl for the Dauntless at no risk to myself, you can bet I'd take it!

It seems to be a superstition in the game lore, because the random jungle strangers tell you of legends about "dead men walking at night"

Perhaps, if reports of skeletons did reach Silehard, he simply dismissed them as exactly that, superstition.

Now, maybe these "skeletons" are a type of ghost. Because when you kill them in the caves they come back. Perhaps they're troubled spirits of the men who'd died in these caves/dungeons, and they can't thrive under sunlight.

Walking skeletons probably are some sort of ghost, since they're certainly not normal living beings! They certainly can't survive out in the daylight where anyone can see and kill them. So they hide in secluded caves, maybe go out for a bit of a walk at night when they think they're safe, and then you come along and kill them anyway.

As to why they come back in caves: there's a limit to how many characters the game can handle. The full population of the cave is probably more than that. So when you've killed everything the game can throw at you, it respawns them to keep the action going and represent some more of the cave's inhabitants.

Which brings to me the observation that the Pearl's crew are ultimately defeated by the Incan Sun God's artifact. Plus the Inca temple Sun/Skull symbol...something about the duality of darkness/death and sunlight/life???

I simply took the symbol as meaning "Go this way if you want to live". Incidentally, if you don't follow the signposts and instead go wandering around the rest of the temple, you might find something interesting...

Well, that's the external reason. But in-lore, ai wonder why. Maybe Nathaniel obtained a French flag which allowed him to moor in their port, and continued using this after Oxbay's liberation.

Indeed. Take a close look at your ship on worldmap when you're on your way to Redmond for the first time. Then look at it again when you're on your way to Falaise de Fleur to meet Virgile Boon. And at any time afterwards. The question you should probably be asking is, why aren't English forts firing at you?

They aren't supernatural during the story, but who knows what their ritual was for? I always felt their arc was kind of darker than even the Black Pearl's. These were men who intentionally sought out the devil.

True, but if Jack Sparrow makes a habit of encountering enemies who are themselves supernatural, a bunch of ordinary humans who are trying to do something naughty in a cave is probably beneath his notice. Or a bit of light relaxation before encountering the next supernatural captain.

 

[The Nameless Pirate]

I haven't played the other Sea Dogs games, but isn't this the only one with skeletons in it? I'd always thought that the skeletons and their monkeys were added intentionally for a link to the film. And I'm referring to the random ones in jungles and caves, not just the Pearl's.

Could be. Perhaps the inhabitants of the caves were originally going to be human, so all the programmers did was change their models. Incidentally, in the Build Mod, the inhabitants of the caves and jungles are human for exactly that reason, someone changed them to use human models instead of skeletons. Monkeys still sometimes show up, though.

Actually, CoAS did have skeletons in the dungeons. This doesn't mean it isn't related to the film in PotC, but they aren't unique to it.
And anyway going by the film lore, it makes sense for the "skeletons" in dungeons to look like normal humans. Most of the time there is no moonlight there.