• New Horizons on Maelstrom
    Maelstrom New Horizons


    Visit our website www.piratehorizons.com to quickly find download links for the newest versions of our New Horizons mods Beyond New Horizons and Maelstrom New Horizons!

'New' Mod ideas+current Mod polishing.

I don't think the opium den is in the brothel mod. The brothel mod, if you change it to 1, will put a brothel on the pirate island, I will warn you that you may experience vulgar language if you visit it. No nudity or anything like that though. The opium den is I believe across the street from the blacksmith shop in Redmond and a few doors down. If you go in, there is a woman standing there and a few men sitting on the floor. You can buy some kind of poisonous bottles from the woman and tatoos from one of the men. I don't think they actually show up on your character though. I think the are just shown in your equipment, they can give you certain bonuses, but also may have bad side effects.

As far as the sailing port to port in 3D mode, if they are able to do it so that ships generate along the journey, I think it would add alot and in that case, I think your weather instrumentation idea would be a good addition. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/par-ty.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheers" border="0" alt="par-ty.gif" />
 
Thanks for the info - i found the opium den for the first time and got myself a tatoo on some arm skin to carry around(goulish!) with me! Ok so we have a 'tatoo shop' - one less to think about <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

I have indeed changed the brothel number to 1, but didnt know where it was - it makes sense its on the pirate island, so will have to go check it out sometime.

And i'm glad you like the idea of the weather-mod in conjunction with a port-to-port sailing mod, and yes part of the port-to-port mod will be to generate ships throughout your journey. I think we might have a possbile method for doing all these. Anyway the detail is on one of my HUGE posts above(post #11).


<b>NEW SHIPS FOR GAME START</b>

I have been reading Kazeite's thread on his new 74 gun ship here:

<a href="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=8796" target="_blank">http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=8796</a>

And apart from my thinking "wow we have a bunch of seriously talanted ship modelers here!" and 'I love it!" etc <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />

It got me thinking about the game start of PotC. I'll start by going of on a tangent - its often my method of illustrating a point or particular feature when designing a game, so bear with me!

<i>Elite</i>

Do you remember that most classic of computer games from the 80's? maybe like me you still play it from time-to-time? Most people that have played it rightly reguard it as one of THE games of those early days of computer gaming. I did also, and my reasons for finding such affection for that game was that it was pretty challanging and open ended.

you start out in an extremely basic space craft(the good ol Cobra), with little money, little equipement and a large and often dangerous universe to explore. I cant tell of the frustration i felt when first playing it - docking killed me often.
Still that frustration was tempered by me knowing what an awesome game(especialy for the time - were in the 80's here!) lay ahead of me if only i could work out this manual 'docking' trick. And i did, as most players did also and the game became an all time classic.

Anyway the feature i always loved in Elite was the progression from mearly having a hull with an engine to eventualy getting that docking computer, better laser etc. All bought with my hard earned cash as i found out the better trade runs or just got lucky with an encounter and my cargo scoop.

We have this in PotC. In the stock game you have a Lugger, then build up to buy/pirate better ships. We have an advanced version in the mods now where you can choose you starting ship(kind of the same feature as used in the later Elite games).

I'm currently playing a game(see my 'Play Test:' thread) and decided to pick the smallest ship i could this time. I never have started in anything less than the Lugger in any other game of PotC. And well i'm likeing it!! really i am, its like elite all over again <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

So this got me thinking, wouldn't it be nice to have a wider selection of small(class7) starting ships? It seems entirely possible to get through the game from this position - lol i'm making money on trading 10 tons of sandlewood in redmond(yep 10 - its all i could fit!), and i'm seeing progress.

Still we only have one class7 ship the tartarene(sp?) with a few flavours like the 'war tartarene' etc. This is what i'm thinking could be a nice game start option?:

1. Resize some of the current ship models to expand our range of class7 ships e.g:

a) class7 'Sloop' type - 38 crew/8 cannons 15.1 knots etc
b) class7 'lugger' type - 30 crew/8 cannons 16.3 knots etc

stuff like that. We could even find more suitable names(ie 'real' small craft names) so not to confuse players? I dont think we need complete new models of them, just re-size the ones we have(but if modlers wanted to look through books to find some nice small class ships then great!).

Then at game start give the player a starting selection of the smallest type ship. The reason i'm suggesting this is partialy a game-balance thing. I dont know how most people find it, but i find it very easy to make alot of money early in the game. Thats just by trading with the available ships - mostly the standard Lugger. This was a problem in stock PotC anyway, and its still around with us now.

I guess what the idea is is to look at ways to stretch the time at game start when the player feels like a small fish in a big pond, which in turn gives the player a greater sense of achievment(and satisfaction) as they progress in the game, get better and bigger ships etc?

What do people think on this? If people like starting higher up the pirate chain, then thats cool - we could still have a wider choice of class7 ships anyway, choice is good <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />
 
Sounds nice to me. But actually resizing the ships is far from easy, I think. You don't just need to resize the model, but also the locators, sails, and worst of all: the walk files. It should be possible to change the stats for several ships though to make them less good and enable these ships as starting ships. Adding new starting ship options is quite possible.
 
You don't even have to resize them. Just change the crew numbers for a new class of ship. I've always been amazed at how many crew can fit on such small ships in PotC...
 
Getting back to earlier posts in the thread, slavery IMO should be incorporated into the next build. However unpleasant, it was a fact of life in the 17th and 18th centuries, and most New World economies depended on it. Akella had intended it to be in Sea Dogs 2 (kudos to them for having the guts to put it in), but when the game was bastardized into what is now known as PotC, it was removed in the interests of political correctness.
I can remember an early mod for PotC which restored the buying and selling of slaves to the game, but this was again removed apparently.
As some are offended by the idea despite its historical authenticity, there could be a toggle to include it or not. As Pieter suggested, there could be a reputation drop for dealing in slaves, and a reputation increase for capturing slavers (although historically rep would drop as slaveships were legal property of shipowners). A lot of the work here has already been done by Akella; simply restore the icon for slaves to the merchants, and include slaves as a cargo item on ships. When capturing a slaver, you could be presented with the option to keep the slaves as cargo (which would of course become contraband, as the slaves were someone elses legal property), which would also be historically correct, as pirates, although often having many ex-slaves as crew, were as likely to sell the captured slaves as to offer them freedom through joining the crew.
And of course if you free a captured cargo of slaves, then there would be a button to transfer them to your crew.
I don't know how hard all this would be to incorporate, but IMO it would add to the authenticity of the game. Scurvy too. Equally unpleasant, but another fact of life in the 17th century. With diseases though, there were so many (malaria, smallpox, tuberculosis etc) that carried most folks off by age 40, it might make for some very short careers in PotC!
 
<!--quoteo(post=168801:date=Oct 25 2006, 07:22 PM:name=Capn_Tucker)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Capn_Tucker @ Oct 25 2006, 07:22 PM) [snapback]168801[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
.........
As some are offended by the idea despite its historical authenticity, there could be a toggle to include it or not. As Pieter suggested, there could be a reputation drop for dealing in slaves, and a reputation increase for capturing slavers (although historically rep would drop as slaveships were legal property of shipowners). A lot of the work here has already been done by Akella; simply restore the icon for slaves to the merchants, and include slaves as a cargo item on ships. When capturing a slaver, you could be presented with the option to keep the slaves as cargo (which would of course become contraband, as the slaves were someone elses legal property), which would also be historically correct, as pirates, although often having many ex-slaves as crew, were as likely to sell the captured slaves as to offer them freedom through joining the crew.

And of course if you free a captured cargo of slaves, then there would be a button to transfer them to your crew.
I don't know how hard all this would be to incorporate, but IMO it would add to the authenticity of the game. Scurvy too. Equally unpleasant, but another fact of life in the 17th century. With diseases though, there were so many (malaria, smallpox, tuberculosis etc) that carried most folks off by age 40, it might make for some very short careers in PotC!
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Hey thanks for those diseases!(you wont often see that said <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" /> ) - i even had malaria many years ago, i was having a blank patch when trying to think of more authentic ones.

I agree that slaves should be a toggle, but i also think they were a large enough aspect of the pirate era, it seems a shame to ignore them. And not all slaves were africans either - poor european pirates/merchant crew all ran the risk of getting enslaved(mostly on pirate ships as crew, sometimes on plantations as workers) - so i dont think this should become a 'colour' issue, although african slaves were by far the greater number involved.

At the end of the day if we can teach a little history in the game, while adding some cool new features, then we should consider all the options.

<b>Slaves in more detail+disease ideas</b>

The main thing i worry about with the slave thing is balance. Pieter came up with some great ideas for certain in-game features, like becoming a slave-hunter etc that if developed fully i can see as helping balance out potential over-powering features of lots of slaves.

Extensions that could be added to the sides of slaver/slave hunter would be to have it as a particular reputation effect(other than just negative/positve as per normal). kinda like how if you raise a pirate flag now, that is reguarded as a special case by all nations, you become a friend of one and enemy of all with that one flag change.

We could use something like this to encourage AI ships to behave like Pirate ships in regaurds to slave ships. maybe even have a seperate reputation account for exactly what each nation feels about slavery at any one time? This could fluctuate over time, maybe even being directly effected by the amount of slave trading going on in a given countries colonies?

So as more trading goes on - that country has a greater chance of turning against slavey. The more you come into contact with certain people, the more you realise we are alike, so increasing the chance of the local population feel empathy for the slave in this example. A very crude model of how the immancipation came about.

Still the game mechanic to balance the financial benefit of slavery would be to use the 'slave-friendly' nations as slave-ship hunters - its not 100% authentic, but its something to keep the slave trading player on thier toes, and something else for the slave-hunter player to look out for when at sea. So we need a way for the player to know which ships are slave ships? this would also change the legal status of slaves as trade goods - you might be forced to meet the slave trader as if meeting a smuggler, and also run the risk of the local guards spoiling your plans.

The other balancing factor would be the disease mod - if there is a chance(not a great one - we dont want to constantly kill all the players crew! I found how frustrating this was with the 'starvation bug' recently) that you can suffer a certain amount of crew loss to scurvy, or some other random disease from time to time, then freeing slaves to bolster your crew numbers would give another option to players that encounter slaves, other than using them for financial or spiritual(aha! a feature for the church! cool)gain depending on what they did with them.

So maybe we could have geographicaly shifting diseases for land? like maybe Oxbay gets an outbreak of smallpox and if visited over that period there is a chance the players crew could suffer. This would open up an interesting option on quests "please could you deliver this much needed medicine to Oxbay!" etc

And a stock number of chosen diseases could have a small random chance of generating into a breakout amongst the various islands, not all the time, but from time-to-time. Medicine as a trade good becomes very usefull - or maybe you need it for your crew...decisions, decisions <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />
 
Yep, lots of ideas here. And in conjunction with that thread of Pieters about creating swamps, maybe alligators wouldn't be possible, but instead there could be a chance of getting malaria, just from visiting the swamp (and its mosquitoes)...
 
Yes! great tie-in. Swamps are the perfect breeding ground for malaria/mosquitoes.

<b>Weather patterns in 3D sailing mode</b>

I've recently been doing a lot of watching of the weather in PotC. I think my earlier hunch about it being a global setting, covering both on land+ at sea sections of the game at the same time is correct.

I say 'i think' because occasionaly you do get a completely different weather pattern after boarding your ship(this noticable change seems to happen less when going from ship to shore though?). Which could just be chance that i board when the hourly weather change is taking place, but i'm not 100% sure.[see NOTE:1]

Mostly you get the impression it is global. I've been watching the way grass is blown about in the land section, coupled with watching out for rain and seeing that this can be used to get a crude 'reading' on the weather state you will most likely find when going to sea at that time. The amount of grass swaying, and how violent it is can tell you how strong the wind is, and if it is raining you can more or less get the wind direction. I quite like using this method now - its 'boy scout' fun <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

Anyway onto the main topic of this post. I've been thinking more about just how exactly to model changing weather in the 3D sailing mode, to be used in conjunction with the port-to-port sailing mod. It needs to be reasonably realistic, to improve the sailing aspect of the game, but also gamer friendly so it wont constantly frustrate the player.

So how about something like this:

We have a certain weather state each game hour. As mentioned before we need to store the current weather state in a different variable, like 'previousweather' or some such.

The game will use 'previousweather' as the control that determines the most likely next range of weather change.

The attributes of the weather, knots+direction, will have a bearing on the next hourly in-game change. I thought about numbers a little for this, i'll use % to illustrate the degree for a reasonable framework for these changes.

So lets make a current weather state of 12 knots blowing in a NW direction - that state gets saved as the new variable 'previousweather' On the change a few more calcualtions are done to get the next weather state.

I'm thinking something like this:

on the lower end of the scale:

If previousweather less than 10 knots have a 60% chance of there being an increase in wind speed
If previousweather less than 5 knots have a 80% chance of there being an increase in wind speed


on the higher end of the scale:

If previousweather greater than 20 knots have a 60% chance of there being a decrease in wind speed(+5% chance of 'Storm')
If previousweather reater than 30 knots have an 80% chance of there being a decrease in wind speed(+10% chance of 'Storm')

On both these higher-end conditions this is where i'd like to tie in a possible 'storm trigger' that could load the player into one of the 'storm screens' - so along with the above check it also runs a storm event check. All these example percentiles will need testing+changing untill we are happy with the in-game effect.

For the mid ranges between 10 knots and 20 knots i'm thinking a simple 50% change for the wind going up or down will be ok? Again something we would have to test and change as needed.

This method will(i hope) tend to favour the mid range of weather speeds - so you will more likely be sailing in those ranges. I am trying to add an element of realism, BUT this is a 'game' and i want to try to avoid causeing frustration - who would really like to sail from Oxbay to Redmond in 3D mode with half the journey spent be-calmed?? probably not many of us.

Wind direction would take a simular tack -

If previousweather NW(blowing towards) then say a 70% chance it will change within the parameters of North and West on the compass, so it would come down to checking against the actual degrees of wind direction. So if blowing from south east with a wind heading of 300 degrees( i needed to check my compass on this!) then that 70% would be in favour of the next change being within a range of between say 240 to 20 degrees?

Now along with all these kinds of checks etc it also needs to be entirely possible for the weather to just 'flip-out' and do something completely random(like it works currently). So i'm thinking that we could maybe have a constant 10% chance at each weather change, that it might be completely random? something like that?

i hope i'm getting the idea across well enough! The whole aim is to create a smoother transition from one weather change to the next, being able to include storms within the model, and also keep a certain amount of randomness to the whole thing - you never really know what the weather might do while at sea(well not without radar tracking and modern forcasts!).
Overall it would be great to have this in the port-to-port mods framework, i think it would greatly enhance the 3D sailing aspect of the game.

[NOTE:1] - I've also noticed a weird weather change when visiting the captains cabin. Doing this will 'always'(90% sure?) change the weather pattern. I think its because time passes when you go to your cabin, i'm guessing 1 hour?
Along these lines you can get some 'odd' effects e.g. if in the storm screen, go to the captains cabin and come back - the weather wont look stromy anymore even though the storm music is playing and your still taking storm damage. Odd - but not a huge concern, something to be aware of.
 
<b>Ships stats re-worked?</b> - for later build

Have a look at this picture(sorry for the low light levels):

<img src="http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p199/BlackBart06/GaleothvsSchooner.jpg" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />

The bottom ship in the picture is a schooner with a crew capacity of 112 and cargo capacity of 1109

The ship on the top right is a Galeoth with a crew capacity of 85 and a cargo capacity of 699

The Galeoth is roughly a third again the physical size of the schooner.

Other ships have a simular imbalance of actual game scale(size) compared to their statistics, do people think this is worth addressing?
 
Along the lines of wind direction, doesn't wind normally tend to blow seaward in coastal areas? I find it really annoying to head out to sea from a port when i'm going into the wind. When I'm escaping with Tobias from Oxbay, it becomes impossible to run the gauntlet while being fired upon. But if the wind is in my favor it becomes a fun challenge.

Could this be incorporated into the weather around islands? (not always, just more often than not the wind blows away from land). i've noticed that the anchorable zone in places like redmond extends past even the fort. if areas could be extended like this it would help counter the complaint "i can never get into port with the wind in my face". this would surely work better than trying to implement the ability of towing yourself with ships boats.

this also makes me think of trying to have general wind direction... e.g in sid meier's pirates winds are generally from the east (throughout the carribbean map), this makes sailing from florida to mexico easy, but the reverse more difficult. in potc this would make how close a given ship can lie to the wind an important trait, but is that adjustable for each ship or even precise enough? i wonder if a toggleable feature like this would be of interest to realism buffs. any thoughts on this?

can abilities be edited? the instant boarding ability is way too arcady. but if it could be worded as attacking an enemy with small ships boats (and possible only at night/fog && low seas) that would add a lot more to realism.
 
In the Caribbean the prevailing winds are from the northeast. But costal winds are always variable, and you're never far from a coastline in this game.

After over 1000 sea battes, almost all of which have involved at least one wind change, I can report that the wind changes help you a lot more often than they hurt you.

And if you don't like the weather changes, you can turn them off. In BuildSettings.h set WEATHER_UPDATE_AT_SEA to zero.

Hook
 
<!--quoteo(post=168927:date=Oct 27 2006, 01:55 AM:name=Hook)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Hook @ Oct 27 2006, 01:55 AM) [snapback]168927[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
In the Caribbean the prevailing winds are from the northeast. But costal winds are always variable, and you're never far from a coastline in this game.

After over 1000 sea battes, almost all of which have involved at least one wind change, I can report that the wind changes help you a lot more often than they hurt you.

Hook
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Sids origonal Pirates! had a 'realistic' weather model for the caribbean - it often meant you really tried to not head in a westerly direction too far - especially if sailing any square-riggers; it would take months to head back eastwards into the teeth of the trade winds!!

So yeah i dont think the effect i'd be looking for would be the same - the aim is to make sailing over long periods from place to place in the 3D mode a little more realisitic without actualy making it real(and a nightmare for big ships) <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />

the fact we have a weather change at all is as you say much more prefreble to no weather change(like in stock PotC). Its just a shame the grass doesnt appear to blow in a direction to help determine wind direction, its not often you have rain to help you make the judgement.
I now always look for violently moving grass - its fun and i recommend it to people who might get frustrated by putting to sea to find a 3 knot wind out there, read the grass its kinda cool <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

<!--quoteo(post=168927:date=Oct 27 2006, 01:55 AM:name=Cmdr Quan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Cmdr Quan @ Oct 27 2006, 01:55 AM) [snapback]168927[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
Along the lines of wind direction, doesn't wind normally tend to blow seaward in coastal areas?........<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I think it entirely depends on where you are in the world and local conditions. At a local beach i used to surf at, my favourite bay always seemed to have the wind blowing in-shore, great in the winter when the swell got large,but in the summer this would often kill the surf. But as Hook said the fact we have random weather in PotC now is good. Hey you could try this when going to sea and finding conditions not to your likeing - head down into your captains cabin(might work with other ship levels also?) and come back out again, the weather will have changed. This only works the one time, so i save it for emergencies(like fleeing a fort/battleship fireing upon me!) <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />
 
<b>New Items for ingame use:</b>

Timepieces example:

<img src="http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p199/BlackBart06/timepiecetest.jpg" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />

to be used in conjunction with Hooks display time mod?

I would see a selection of different timepieces available - not that they would provide any other effects(they would all allow the time to be displayed on screen as in Hooks mod), although we could add a 'date' function also to the more expensive ones? We could have a variety of different textures and decide which looked most valuable. So the fancy looking gold ones would be more expensive than the pewter ones for example.

note that example is a test - i took about 20mins on it and its a rough in progress version, untill i can find larger watch images to copy for a crisper image(or better yet ged has a go).

<b>usefull websites for pictues for items(sextants/barometers/watches etc):</b>

<a href="http://www.stanleylondon.com/sextsext.htm" target="_blank">http://www.stanleylondon.com/sextsext.htm</a>

<a href="http://www.prometheus-imports.com/instrumentsrow2col2.htm" target="_blank">http://www.prometheus-imports.com/instrumentsrow2col2.htm</a>

<a href="http://www.nautical-instrument.com/" target="_blank">http://www.nautical-instrument.com/</a>

<a href="http://www.antiquesofthesea.com/weather.html" target="_blank">http://www.antiquesofthesea.com/weather.html</a>

<a href="http://www.ahuracollectables.co.uk/" target="_blank">http://www.ahuracollectables.co.uk/</a>

<a href="http://www.londonlighthouse.com/" target="_blank">http://www.londonlighthouse.com/</a>

<b>same for weapons:</b> (i had posted these in another thread, but want them all in one place)

<a href="http://www.thearma.org/essays/weights.htm" target="_blank">http://www.thearma.org/essays/weights.htm</a>

<a href="http://www.nmm.ac.uk/collections/search/listResults.cfm?sortby=title&name=Sword&category=edgedweapons&startrow=31" target="_blank">http://www.nmm.ac.uk/collections/search/li...amp;startrow=31</a>

<a href="http://www.armor.com/swords.html" target="_blank">http://www.armor.com/swords.html</a>
 
Back
Top