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The nautical origin of S.H.I.T.

C

CatalinaThePirate

Unholy Terror,
Storm Modder
Interesting story I found today:

<b>Some exciting Historical information you need to know about shipping Manure:</b>

In the 16th and 17th centuries, everything had to be transported by ship. It was also before commercial fertilizer's invention, so large shipments of manure were common. It was shipped dry, because in dry form it weighed a lot less than when wet, but once water (at sea) hit it, it not only became heavier, but the process of fermentation began again, of which a `by-product` is methane gas.

As the stuff was stored below decks in bundles you can see what could (and did) happen. Methane began to build up below decks and the first time someone came below at night with a lantern, BOOOOM!

Several ships were destroyed in this manner before it was determined just what was happening. After that, the bundles of manure were always stamped with the term "Ship High In Transit" on them which meant for the sailors to stow it high enough off the lower decks so that any water that came into the hold would not touch this volatile cargo and start the production of methane.

Thus evolved the term "S.H.I.T," which came down through the centuries and is in use to this very day.
 
Lady Cat, are you really trying to give us a load of Ship High In Transit here? <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/huh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":huh" border="0" alt="huh.gif" />
 
that is freaken awesome if true <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dev.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":d:" border="0" alt="dev.gif" />
 
He ho hi ho! Arrrrr!!! <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/pirate2.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p:" border="0" alt="pirate2.gif" />
Well ye'd think the local farmers would know that I'm at large, but just the other day I found an unprotected barge, I snuck up right behind them and they were none the wiser, I ran there ship and stole theier fertilizer!

ARRRRR!!!! <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/pirate2.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p:" border="0" alt="pirate2.gif" />
 
Heh, I'm not claiming it's true, but I thought it was something you guys would enjoy... Heh... <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dev.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":d:" border="0" alt="dev.gif" />
 
Funny, but definitely untrue. Found this at wordorigins.org:
--------------------------
Sh*t
Sh*t is a very old word, with an Old English root. *Scítan is the Old English word. It has cognates in most of the other Germanic languages and shares a common Germanic root with modern equivalents like the German scheissen.

*Scítan, however, doesn't appear in extant Old English texts and is only assumed to have existed in Old English. The verb to sh*t dates the Middle English period (c. 1308), and the noun form is from the 16th century. The interjection is of quite recent vintage, not found until the 1920s.

In 2002, an alleged acronymic origin for sh*t appeared on the Internet. According to this tale, the word is from an acronym for Ship High In Transit, referring to barges carrying manure. This is a complete fabrication and absurd on its face. All it takes to disprove it is to look up the word in any decent dictionary. Remember, anytime someone posits an acronymic word origin, chances are that it is utterly false.
--------------------------
But also found this, which I thought interesting:
--------------------------
Shark
Shark is an interesting word, appearing much later than one might expect. It was coined by sailors on John Hawkins's `1568-69` expedition. This expedition returned a specimen of the fish to London. Where they caught the fish is not recorded, but the trip was one to the Caribbean and was famous for a battle with the Spanish fleet off Veracruz in Mexico. Why they called this fish a shark is not known.

But it is possible that the word derives from the Mayan word for the fish, xoc, pronounced showk. This word is represented in Mayan writing by a glyph of two fish fins or sometimes two fish. Given the destination of the Hawkins's expedition, it is possible that the sailors adopted the local Indian word for the fish.
 
I knew the story was apocryphal... But it is funny...

One wonders why the interjection popped up in the 1920's... I would offer that the origin as stated above had a bit to do with the Germanic "scheissen" - there were many Germans in the USA at that particular time.

That's a very cool site there, Bilgemunky, wordorigins.org - I have one that you wordlovers might appreciate - <a href="http://wordsmith.org/" target="_blank">http://wordsmith.org/</a> - they have an emailed newsletter with a new word a day - so you can increase your wordpower...
 
I'm not sure which is funnier; whether it is Lady Cat trying to sneak that past us, or us catching her in the act.

And now Bilgemunky is showing up with a fishy story.

I'm not sure I should trust either of you, and Bilgemunky, I have my doubts because one of the oldest jokes in the world, "since Noah was a sailor," has the phrase, "Help, help,<i>shark</i>!" <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_eek.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":shock:" border="0" alt="icon_eek.gif" />

This reminds me of the time I tried to convince Lady Mings that the origin of the word, "pandemonium," was in the 1950's when people outside of China became aware of the existance of the panda, and became very excited about it.

I still bear the bruises from when she realised that I was full of scheisse. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blush.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":eek:ops" border="0" alt="blush.gif" />:
 
<img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_eek.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":shock:" border="0" alt="icon_eek.gif" /> Doubt? ME? Sir Christopher, I am WOUNDED!!! <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ib012.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cry" border="0" alt="ib012.gif" />:

Oh gawd, this is the Blind Parrot, we must behave... :x

Ummm, let me stay on topic here by, ummmm, talking about WORDS, yeah words...

Here are some other cool word links:

Alternative Dictionaries (Slang, profanities, insults and vulgarisms from all the world)
<a href="http://www.notam02.no/~hcholm/altlang/" target="_blank">http://www.notam02.no/~hcholm/altlang/</a> Learn to curse in Hungarian or Basque! LOL!

AMBIGRAMS: <a href="http://www.johnlangdon.net/website/New_Pages/Ambigrams.htm" target="_blank">http://www.johnlangdon.net/website/New_Pag...s/Ambigrams.htm</a>

<a href="http://`fun-with`-words.com/index.html" target="_blank">http://`fun-with`-words.com/index.html</a> what the url says... cool site...
 
Fred Bob 'twas truly sheptical o' yer story thar, Cat! Thought he be replyin' tew dat effect earlier but must'ave onct agin pressed "Go" instead of "Submit"! <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":rolleyes:" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" /> De story be hard tew buy fer a couple reasons: 1) Hard fer Fred Bob tew believe it e'er would've been cost effective in an agrarian, `ox-driven` society tew ship manure and 2) manure packaged in bundles? Fred Bob usually be buyin his manure in bags fer his veggie garden! If'n thay be shippin' it at all, 'twould be done loose, prolly not packaged, in bulk an' prolly on a barge not down in a hold! <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cool.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="8)" border="0" alt="cool.gif" />
 
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And now Bilgemunky is showing up with a fishy story.  <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Fishy? Me?

Actually, the shark origin seems to be pretty heavily backed up by a number of sources, both `word-origin` sites and shark history sites. Being as I found it on a site that debunks several "false" origins, I'm inclined to assume they did some homework before posting (but it certainly wouldn't be the first time I was suckered <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blush.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":eek:ops" border="0" alt="blush.gif" />: )

Don't know the joke about Noah - so can't really comment.
 
<snicker> So Fred Bob, ye be sayin' that ya can't ship shit? <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="xD:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" />

I would TRULY hate to be serving on a ship that is shipping shit... <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/w00t.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":woot" border="0" alt="w00t.gif" />

MAN, I am in a <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dev.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":d:" border="0" alt="dev.gif" /> mood today... <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="xD:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" />
 
Guess so, Cat! <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheeky" border="0" alt="icon_mrgreen1.gif" />

... now `guano-haulin`' in a ship be anudder matter all together! Dat stuff would be gittin' `high-dollar` an' be well worth de coat an' hassle o' loadin' and' haulin' an' unloadin'! <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheeky" border="0" alt="icon_mrgreen1.gif" />
 
<b><!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->originally posted by CatalinaThePirate
Doubt? ME? Sir Christopher, I am WOUNDED!!!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--></b>

"Queen. The lady doth protest too much, methinks."
Hamlet Act III sc. II

I was expressing my admiration for both the confounded attempt, as well as the confounded deed, I'd put this in a proper quotation form, but the last time I quoted that play I had bad luck. Hope your day gets better.


<b><!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->originally posted by Bilgemunky
Fishy? Me?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--></b>

"Mar. Something is rotten in the state of Denmark."
Hamlet Act I sc. IV

What else should a story about the shark's name be but fishy, if not rotten, given time and occasion?

The joke only dates from before the time of Noah, and does not involve him. I cannot do the story justice via email, but it involves a man, a prosthetic device, an ocean voyage, a rather large shark, and a change of pitch that serves as the punchline. (Should I draw you a picture?)

It is my fervent hope, Bilgemunkey, that you are trying to pass off a shark in sheep's clothing here, but we'll have to see whether that dog will hunt.

"Though this be madness, yet there's method in it,"Ibid. (I must have quoted this somwhere previously,)

You don't think I'm going to show up at the table and not play?

The title character in Shakepeare's <u>Hamlet</u>, or rather his name, is actually a palindrome of the name of the main character in the original source material that Shakepeare used as the basis for the story line in the play, <u>Hamlet</u>. The name of the character that Shakespeare "borrowed" and then palindromed is Amleth, and it is the story of a prince who pretends to be mad so his wicked uncle, who has usurped him, will not kill him, and he can secretly plot his uncle's overthrow, which he does.

This is starting to remind me of the home version of the game, "Will It Float?"
 
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><b>originally posted by Bilgemunky
(but it certainly wouldn't be the first time I was suckered )</b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Bilgemunky,
I have no doubt that you are not suckered very often, but this is not the first time that I have had to eat my words, let me get out the hot sauce and some Snakebite to help them down.

Your fish story certainly does appear to float, I didn't have to look any farther than the dictionary on my desk to find the word origin date of 1569. (This was after I spent a few hours cleaning the dust off of the rarely touched tome.)

Considering that the naval skirmish between the British and the Spanish occurred at San Juan de Ulua in 1568 it appears that the rest of the tale bears out as well. Hawkins' crew were probably tolerably well acquainted with sharks considering that the cargo they were trying to forcibly trade with the Spanish consisted of slaves from Africa. (the Spanish colonies were mandated against trading with anyone other than the Spanish merchants, but this mandate was hard to enforce when the English traders showed up heavily armed.) That they were able to bring back a specimen of a shark is remarkable considering they were unable to bring back very many of their sailors after the battle. It was reported that only 15 of the English sailors on Hawkins' Flagship, the Minion after the Jesus de Lubeck was abandoned, survived the trip home and many of the crew wound up as castaways on the North American shore.

The real question that I have is that, considering sharks inhabit most if not all of the world's oceans, how did they refer to sharks before the word shark came into common usage?
It seems like it would be harder to rouse people from the water by yelling," Big fish with lots of teeth and fins! Run!"
"Shark" seems to do the job with far greater efficiency.

Please accept my apologies Bilgmunky, I should know it's bad form to cast apprehensions upon your mates without proper warrant. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ib012.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cry" border="0" alt="ib012.gif" />
 
<!--`QuoteBegin-SirChristopherMings`+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SirChristopherMings)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The real question that I have is that, considering sharks inhabit most if not all of the world's oceans, how did they refer to sharks before the word shark came into common usage? [/quote]Here's a possible answer... The English did not SWIM, so who needed a word for that big fish with lots of teeth and fins? <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="xD:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" />
 
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