Too many Squadrons!

[Vict0r_1994]

Okay, I forgot about this game for a long time, but recently I rediscovered it, and, as I had the French questline already completed with Danielle Greene, I started using my Battle Man'o'wars fleet to capture some forts and create the 1st free American nation 108 years earlier than in our universe ), but I have a big problem.

Smashing forts proved to be very easy, as I conquered Antigua, Nevis, Barbados and Trinidad in a blast, but the problem came when the English started sending in the Squadrons. I defeated them once in Antigua and twice in Nevis! Every month, I have to fight a 6-ships squadron which is barely beatable if far from the fort, and I already lost Antigua when they attacked there a second time. I tried to pay a diplomat to normalize my relationship with England, but then, after the relationship grew to normal, they started the 1st siege of Barbados! Is there no way to stop the infinite waves of war fleets??? I can barely repair the ships and get back my lost crew, and they attack again! I conquered Trinidad from the Dutch, and after I paid a diplomat to set me straight with them, they did not retaliate. Why are the English acting differently? And it's also ridiculous! We all know that they didn't have 20 man'o'wars and lineships to send in the Carribbeans back in the 17th century! They needed those ships in Europe.

So, what I'm asking is, can I make the sieges stop somehow in the game, or, if it isn't possible, can I hack into the game files so that no squadrons would arrive ever again? The game becomes less enjoyable if you have to fight continuously without getting any real loot...

 

[Luke159]

This is where a fast but heavily manned ship helps, you can race around the battle boarding ships early on to reduce the problem and get your captured ships back to the fort where after the battle is over you can sell them to help cover the costs of your repairs and upkeep costs each month. Sadly though you can't stop the constant attacks from any nation, perhaps pay the diplomat again to fix the relations will help, but I can't say how that will turn out for you. As for realism, no country had the amount of ships you will see in the game, that's what makes this a game. We have tried to make the game as realistic as possible through the use of toggle switches that you can switch on and off in the games option = mods tab (if playing GOF 1.2 or 2.0). One such feature was changing the way encounters worked, we made it so its harder to encounter large ships to early. So at low ranks you would mostly find yourself in battles against small class 6 and 7 ships with the odd class 5 ship showing up, or t worse a class 4 ship. The only place you would most likely find large ships would be in harbours.

 

[modernknight1]

And it's also ridiculous! We all know that they didn't have 20 man'o'wars and lineships to send in the Carribbeans back in the 17th century! They needed those ships in Europe.

I don't know why everyone always assumes that. By the middle of the 17th century many Caribbean cities were as cosmopolitan as those in Europe. Huge invasion fleets were sent to the Caribbean all the time. Look at De Estrees disaster at Las Aves. Remember that DeRuyter chased Sir Robert Holmes into the Caribbean from Africa with most of Holland's confederate fleet.

This picture is of the English attempt to take Martinique in 1667. How many capital ships can you count.... MK

 

[Vict0r_1994]

This is where a fast but heavily manned ship helps, you can race around the battle boarding ships early on to reduce the problem and get your captured ships back to the fort where after the battle is over you can sell them to help cover the costs of your repairs and upkeep costs each month. Sadly though you can't stop the constant attacks from any nation, perhaps pay the diplomat again to fix the relations will help, but I can't say how that will turn out for you. As for realism, no country had the amount of ships you will see in the game, that's what makes this a game. We have tried to make the game as realistic as possible through the use of toggle switches that you can switch on and off in the games option = mods tab (if playing GOF 1.2 or 2.0). One such feature was changing the way encounters worked, we made it so its harder to encounter large ships to early. So at low ranks you would mostly find yourself in battles against small class 6 and 7 ships with the odd class 5 ship showing up, or t worse a class 4 ship. The only place you would most likely find large ships would be in harbours.

So, which ship would you recommend? Is there any fast 1st class ship? I'll probably just keep less cities (1 or 2) if endless sieges are unstoppable, but what should I look for in the shipyards? The game I continued is really old and is on GoF 1.0, so there probably aren't as many ships as in 1.2.

BTW, I didn't insult or criticize you guys in any way about lack of realism! You did a wonderful job in making the game more enjoyable and less filled with bugs! Your additions to the game are brilliant as well, and you have my respect for all your work! The countless attacks I criticized a bit were programmed by the producers, not by you...

 

[Vict0r_1994]

I don't know why everyone always assumes that. By the middle of the 17th century many Caribbean cities were as cosmopolitan as those in Europe. Huge invasion fleets were sent to the Caribbean all the time. Look at De Estrees disaster at Las Aves. Remember that DeRuyter chased Sir Robert Holmes into the Caribbean from Africa with most of Holland's confederate fleet.

This picture is of the English attempt to take Martinique in 1667. How many capital ships can you count.... MK

View attachment 11862

I just assumed that because the population of the Caribbean colonies was mostly below 10.000 people, while big European cities had hundreds of thousands of residents... Sure, Havana and Santo Domingo were big, but most of the colonies weren't large in the mid 1600s. That's the only reason why I assumed they weren't a naval focus-point, but you seem to be right! Hmm, probably there was more native gold to be protected in those islands than I first thought... Anyway, I still don't think they sent this many capital ships monthly (like in my game). Yet, I assume most pirates did not have 4 bank accounts with a credit of 10 million pieces of eight each either! ))

 

[modernknight1]

I just assumed that because the population of the Caribbean colonies was mostly below 10.000 people, while big European cities had hundreds of thousands of residents... Sure, Havana and Santo Domingo were big, but most of the colonies weren't large in the mid 1600s. That's the only reason why I assumed they weren't a naval focus-point, but you seem to be right! Hmm, probably there was more native gold to be protected in those islands than I first thought... Anyway, I still don't think they sent this many capital ships monthly (like in my game). Yet, I assume most pirates did not have 4 bank accounts with a credit of 10 million pieces of eight each either! ))

I think they were larger than you might imagine. I looked up some figures real quick and here's what I found....

- Between 1650 to 1700 the English had over 200,000 colonists in the Caribbean and another 200,000 in North America.

- The Dutch had over 170,000 mainly concentrated in Dutch Surinam, Guyana, the Antilles and Curacao. Curacao alone was one of the most cosmopolitan areas of the New World with almost 30,000 inhabitants. People also don't realize that Brazil was seized and held by the Dutch for 40 years. OR that Rio de Janerio was founded by French Hugenots sent there by Admiral de Coligny in the 1570s.

- I couldn't find good population numbers for the French or Portuguese (I could if I dug more) but did find that the Spaniards had over a 6 million population in their possessions during this time with estimates of about one fifth of that being ethnic Iberian colonists/inhabitants and the rest mixed breed and Native American.

- Another notable number is that between five and six million African slaves had been imported by that time - most to Dutch, English and French possessions as the Spanish weren't allowed to buy slaves unless they were "liberated" from enemy ships or colonies during war.

- Bottom line is that there were millions of people living in the Caribbean region during the Golden Age of piracy and thousands of ships crossing those waters every day.

I do agree though that they attack way too much and I will look to see if there is a number that can be changed as far as frequency is concerned. If a campaign was planned, fitted out and executed, it would happen once a year....not once a month.

MK

 

[Pieter Boelen]

This picture is of the English attempt to take Martinique in 1667. How many capital ships can you count.... MK

Holy crappaloni! History never ceases the amaze me!

 

[modernknight1]

A couple more interesting tidbits:

The Spaniards spent over 4 million escudos on fortifying all their possessions in the New World during the 1570's because of the disastrous and embarrassing battle at San Juan de Uloa. That is an immense sum in today's currency ($17 Billion today). Our video games do not do the sizes of the forts or the towns justice. New Horizon's gets close on the bigger towns at least.

Here's another. By the mid 17th century the Tierra Firma and Plata Flotas fleets would join in Havana for the journey home to Spain. Combined together, the Spanish treasure fleet averaged OVER ONE HUNDRED SHIPS!!! Just a little larger than what we have depicted in our video games. This also shows why the treasure fleet was such a ripe plum for the picking and why so many tried to bag it.

A little known fact though is that ONLY ONE MAN in history ever bagged an entire Spanish treasure fleet. Do you know who it was????

The Dutchman Piet Heyn in 1628. With the seizure of that fleet the Dutch rebels were able to bankrupt the Spanish crown for over a year and effectively fund a concerted Spanish defeat in the Netherlands - using Spanish money to do so. This is why Heyn is attributed with the soubriquet "Savior of the Netherlands".

History is AWESOME!

MK

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Our video games do not do the sizes of the forts or the towns justice. New Horizon's gets close on the bigger towns at least.

I'll believe you on that! Have you seen the new fort we have at Cartagena in PotC? That's the first REAL fort in the game. And it looks so much better than those castles everywhere else.

A little known fact though is that ONLY ONE MAN in history ever bagged an entire Spanish treasure fleet. Do you know who it was????

I knew that! Sort of.... Apart from the ONE HUNDRED SHIPS thing!!!
There's a famous Dutch song on Piet Heyn and his taking of the "Silver Fleet" being a grand deed.

 

[Luke159]

So, which ship would you recommend? Is there any fast 1st class ship? I'll probably just keep less cities (1 or 2) if endless sieges are unstoppable, but what should I look for in the shipyards? The game I continued is really old and is on GoF 1.0, so there probably aren't as many ships as in 1.2.

BTW, I didn't insult or criticize you guys in any way about lack of realism! You did a wonderful job in making the game more enjoyable and less filled with bugs! Your additions to the game are brilliant as well, and you have my respect for all your work! The countless attacks I criticized a bit were programmed by the producers, not by you...

There are many you can use, Constitution, Frigate (the one you take as Captain Blood, because it will be generated in shipyards and encounters in both GOF 1.2 and 2.0) in fact almost any Frigate will do. The main focus points for you is crew size and ship speed, once you capture a ship that's got a good crew size and is quiet fast head over to Bermuda and get the ships crew size and speed upgrades done. The ship will be much faster and hold more crew, keep this ship as your flag ship. Have 2 other fighting ships in your fleet (MOW's or any large class 2 ships) use them to take the brunt end of the fighting while you steam in and try to capture the weaker ships (you don't need to keep the weaker ships, you can just loot them and sink them). I say MOW's because you can use these ships to top your crew backup between boarding fights, the only down side to this strategy is mast damage. But if you let your war ships take the brunt end and then come in while the enemy are busy fighting your war ships, you can easily turn the tide of the battle.

The higher your navigation or the officer who's been assigned the navigator role, the better, because this will help you get more out of the ship. My advice is to capture the highest ranking ship and send the captured ship back to the fort which should be behind your war ships. Let the captured ship(s) stay there till the battle is over, this is because the highest ranking ship will be worth much more to sell, the downs side is, it could also be very slow, use chain shot on the enemy rigging to help slow them down, this will aid you in the long run anyway.

No I know you didn't say anything bad about our work, I was just saying we tried to get things more realistic, but some things we didn't really look into, but i'm pretty sure you can modify the amount of ship brought into fort battles and most likely the min and max ranks. If I wasn't so tired I would look for it myself, but I've been out all day and only just got back after a 4 hour journey each way, with only 1 stop for a drink. left at 5am and arrived at 9:45+ and then left again at 8:50pm. We had fun though and it was a needed day out for all of us. Anyway if I get chance I will do some searching, i'm sure MK has idea's where to look and could well find it before I even get chance to start looking. because i'm again busy tomorrow.

 

[Vict0r_1994]

I think they were larger than you might imagine. I looked up some figures real quick and here's what I found....

- Between 1650 to 1700 the English had over 200,000 colonists in the Caribbean and another 200,000 in North America.

- The Dutch had over 170,000 mainly concentrated in Dutch Surinam, Guyana, the Antilles and Curacao. Curacao alone was one of the most cosmopolitan areas of the New World with almost 30,000 inhabitants. People also don't realize that Brazil was seized and held by the Dutch for 40 years. OR that Rio de Janerio was founded by French Hugenots sent there by Admiral de Coligny in the 1570s.

- I couldn't find good population numbers for the French or Portuguese (I could if I dug more) but did find that the Spaniards had over a 6 million population in their possessions during this time with estimates of about one fifth of that being ethnic Iberian colonists/inhabitants and the rest mixed breed and Native American.

- Another notable number is that between five and six million African slaves had been imported by that time - most to Dutch, English and French possessions as the Spanish weren't allowed to buy slaves unless they were "liberated" from enemy ships or colonies during war.

- Bottom line is that there were millions of people living in the Caribbean region during the Golden Age of piracy and thousands of ships crossing those waters every day.

I do agree though that they attack way too much and I will look to see if there is a number that can be changed as far as frequency is concerned. If a campaign was planned, fitted out and executed, it would happen once a year....not once a month.

MK

Your facts were fascinating! I thought that most settlements were smaller because I came across some information about Henry Morgan's assault on Portobello from 1668 a lot of time ago. I read that he sacked the city with a land army of only 450 men, and your facts made me dig up some more information on the matter. I found no demographics of Portobello in the 17th century, (I think it was smaller than other cities because Yucatan was much more attractive in central America due to the gold and huge number of native enslaved/enslave-able population...) but I stumbled on an interesting story. Get this: Morgan and many other privateers actually raided Spanish settlements in the region because they took part in the Port Royal "forced trade".

Spain already faced shortages of manufactured goods after the invasion of Jamaica in 1653, and because privateers sacked Spanish settlements in the Caribbean constantly, the Spaniards were forced to rely on English goods and the growth of flourishing colonies such as Port Royal was guaranteed. Port Royal merchants sponsored both the attacks on Spanish ports and trade ships led by privateers and trading endeavors with the Spanish at the same time, so, while the merchants had the upper hand, it was good business for the sea dogs as well! It's quite hilarious that even the most feared pirates of the era like Morgan made backroom deals with the supposedly "respectable citizens" the monopoly-desiring bourgeois in the region were...

Yet, I also found out that during the 1692 earthquake which destroyed Port Royal, the population of the settlement was about 6500, so I'm guessing that not all regions were as populated as Cuba, Hispaniola or the Eastern Caribbeans.

About the game, I found out what I did wrong, so you don't need to do any modding! I paid diplomats to reconcile with the Dutch and the English, but what I should have done for being left alone was to pay the diplomats to convince the country I seized a colony from to abandon its claim to those lands. (a new dialogue option which appears only when you hold cities) Barbados costed me 3 million pieces of eight, so it's quite expensive, but it works. Sorry for bothering you because of my mistake, but, I hope you don't mind me saying this - I like where this discussion is going!

Being an eastern European, I never studied renaissance in the Americas properly and I simply love history, so reading all this facts is really entertaining!