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[The Nameless Pirate]

I must give my opinion for CT.

I haven't actually played the game but I have searched a bit and from what I understand it's good if you want to free play for sure.

The reason though I have not played it is...

That there is not really a main story line, I like free play but I also like story so when I play, I do both at the same time.

Even if I only played free play, I would want a story at some point.

I have a copy somewhere from my father, so I may try it at some point when I have the time.

 

[Cerez]

That there is not really a main story line, I like free play but I also like story so when I play, I do both at the same time.

Then CT is not for you, really (or at least not at this time in your life). There are no predetermined paths/storylines, or even objectives in CT. It's designed for open gameplay. (To be fair, there is sort of one, but it's very sketchy and dodgy -- and I have plans to cut it loose as well in my next, writing-based mod.) For what you are looking for, probably POTC (with New Horizons) and/or COAS is best.

CT is for when you want no guidance, and you want to 'write' your own story, so to speak. To use your own imagination, set your own goals, and go on a free adventure.

 

[DavyJack]

...CT is for when you want no guidance, and you want to 'write' your own story, so to speak. To use your own imagination, set your own goals, and go on a free adventure.

For this to work, there should be tons of sidequests and or things to do or it gets boring, really.

I still haven't dig into CT deep enough and since it only has one currency being used which is "gold". I like doing and going on the merchant/adventurer type path as well but for me, personally, to really enjoy it, I need a more complex currency system. Maybe that's why I got hooked up with TEHO because it uses two values (Peso/Piece of Eight and Doubloon).

If I could find a pirate themed game much like POTC and TEHO that uses at least three (e.g. copper/silver/gold or shilling/crown/sterling/pound or quarter/peso/escudo/doubloon), that would be a truly awesome find.

Man, what I would do to have all the same adventure/story/game mechanics AND WITH a complex currency system including 'shady' tradings with 'shady' people based on real/factual-ish values like what they would have back in the day..that would be heaven on my fantasy world

 

[Cerez]

For this to work, there should be tons of sidequests and or things to do or it gets boring, really.

Hmm, no... I disagree. You don't need sidequests (pre-written stories) if the gameplay is entertaining, and keeps throwing variations/surprises at you. I know with POTC and RPG games in general, pre-written mini-stories are the popular thing, but that's not the only way to role-play.

CT is a large sandbox with a randomised, entertaining sailing/pirate and exploration gameplay. What you make of it depends largely on how you approach it, and whether you are ready to make your own story.

I'm aware that this will never make CT the popular, go-to title, but it never was that. CT is its own thing -- freedom if you want a break from the pre-written formula -- a breath of fresh air. Or at least that's the way I see it.

For example, instead of taking on a sidequest, I set a goal for myself in CT -- such as delivering a cargo I've been tasked with to one of the islands. On the way, unexpectedly, in the middle of the night, I encounter a large Spanish gold convoy -- a spectacular sight. Which sets me thinking, 'Will I ever amass my own merchant fleet'? Upon delivering the cargo, I am offered a shady assignment to smuggle some illegal goods by a new client. Do I take towards pirating, and turn my future fleet into something well armed (maybe one day attacking a Spanish convoy), or do I stay on the clean path, and aim to improve my trade relations, playing it peaceful and growing it big?

Just a beginning scenario off the top of my head to show you how a sidequest is not necessary to play and create your own story if the game helps your imagination out by throwing new and unexpected events your way -- which CT does quite often, and more as you progress further in the game. Actions you take can have future consequences.

It's a different kind of storytelling gameplay than POTC and the standard RPG formula.

 

[Grey Roger]

FIf I could find a pirate themed game much like POTC and TEHO that uses at least three (e.g. copper/silver/gold or shilling/crown/sterling/pound or quarter/peso/escudo/doubloon), that would be a truly awesome find.

I'm not sure how that would work in game. The various coins in a single currency are so that you don't need to carry a truckload of pennies; you have high value coins or notes to pay for expensive stuff, and low value coins to pay for cheap stuff or make up the exact value of the expensive stuff. (Ever wondered why there are usually 1x, 2x and 5x value coins? Because between those, you can make up any exact value up to 10 using no more than 3 coins.) In game, it would just add an extra layer of complexity and delay when trading cargo or buying equipment.

But having different currencies for different nations could be interesting. Your English shillings are worthless if you're trying to buy stuff in Spanish San Juan; you have to go to the loanshark and exchange some shillings for Spanish reales, probably losing some money in the process as he charges an exchange fee.

 

[The Nameless Pirate]

TEHO has it so that, usually when you buy quest related stuff or strategic goods you pay in doubloons and for normal goods pesos.

The Witcher 3 has it so, you find foreign money and in order to spend it you have to go to the bank and exchange them for crowns (main currency).

 

[DavyJack]

...I'm aware that this will never make CT the popular, go-to title, but it never was that. CT is its own thing -- freedom if you want a break from the pre-written formula -- a breath of fresh air. Or at least that's the way I see it...

Yes! That's it, then. It's like having a vacation away from all the politics and normal day to day rules and basically go to a parallel world which doesn't have all that and just basically do what you want. I like that.

I'm not sure how that would work in game. The various coins in a single currency are so that you don't need to carry a truckload of pennies; you have high value coins or notes to pay for expensive stuff, and low value coins to pay for cheap stuff or make up the exact value of the expensive stuff. (Ever wondered why there are usually 1x, 2x and 5x value coins? Because between those, you can make up any exact value up to 10 using no more than 3 coins.) In game, it would just add an extra layer of complexity and delay when trading cargo or buying equipment...

I say it would work out awesomely! Game auto calculates and just gives you whatever change you have when buying/trading and auto calculates all your lower valued coins and just converts it to the next higher valued coin. It's the dream! or more of "my" dream. Hahah

But having different currencies for different nations could be interesting. Your English shillings are worthless if you're trying to buy stuff in Spanish San Juan; you have to go to the loanshark and exchange some shillings for Spanish reales, probably losing some money in the process as he charges an exchange fee.

Yes, that would be very good, indeed if it were implemented.

By comparison the British Shilling was 1/20 ounce of silver. Thus 20 shillings made up the British Pound ( £ ). The British pound was the equivalent worth of the Colonial dollar ($) or piece of eight. (at least in weight) However, the British Crown frowned up foreign currency being used in its colonies and would often give a much lower rate of exchange on official transactions. By the time of the American revolution, Spanish or "Miller Dollars" as they became known were being exchanged at the rate of 4-8 shillings to the dollar. This is between 1/4 to 1/2 their actual value in silver!

Quote from Money, Pirates of the Caribbean, in fact and fiction Pirate Money

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Well put. Not to be/sound discriminatory, but as a multicultural Australian I see this as current, devolved American culture. Europe generally has a very different sentiment about this. This kind of shallow and wasteful thinking and practice comes from Hollywood -- which is mostly following the current American cultural climate and the preferences of its demographic, and dictating it to the world.

America has much to learn from European history and culture (even if that's the last thing they would want to admit). And it shouldn't stop there. It should absorb broad-minded teachings from the East, too. Especially since they currently bear a responsibility for world culture.

To quote the Spider-Man comics, of all things: "With great power there must also come -- great responsibility!"

To have one without the other means to cause a great disturbance and suffering.

Couldn't agree more.

Indeed, this seems to be modern film culture in general these days, except for animation. I agree, it's a rather sad affair. If it was a mix of positive and negative vibe, it would stand, but it seems to be dominated by pessimism and negativity -- which doesn't help people stay healthy. Generally speaking, stories are meant to inspire, not bring you down -- this was their purpose from the dawn of humankind.

Yep. Exactly that.

Not to mention that CT's characters look like they have been run over by something heavy that flattened their heads. (It's actually a rigging/weighting issue, as far as I can tell, when they turn their heads.) Personally I've never minded the anime-inspired look much, but now I can definitely see what you both mean, and, yes, their design, and even their texturing, is definitely different than the character designs for POTC/NH.

I don't mind their look either, but I have to admit... given the choice, I like the PotC style better.
But that's just personal preference.

For this to work, there should be tons of sidequests and or things to do or it gets boring, really.

That's what CoAS did, I think. It took the free play from CT and instead of adding a main story, it added a ton of (sometimes quite massive) side-quests instead.
Good, solid approach if you ask me.

If I could find a pirate themed game much like POTC and TEHO that uses at least three (e.g. copper/silver/gold or shilling/crown/sterling/pound or quarter/peso/escudo/doubloon), that would be a truly awesome find.

The way PotC: New Horizons came to be is because people with similar dreams like you decided not to wait for someone else to make it happen, but make their own dreams come true instead.
Same applies to CoAS as well, which started as an unofficial mod to CT and became a fully-fledged game. TEHO too, actually; but by a different group.

Man, what I would do to have all the same adventure/story/game mechanics AND WITH a complex currency system including 'shady' tradings with 'shady' people based on real/factual-ish values like what they would have back in the day..that would be heaven on my fantasy world

Maybe you can convince @Armada to consider it for the commercial game he's developing. No guarantees, but no harm ever came from asking.

Hmm, no... I disagree. You don't need sidequests (pre-written stories) if the gameplay is entertaining, and keeps throwing variations/surprises at you. I know with POTC and RPG games in general, pre-written mini-stories are the popular thing, but that's not the only way to role-play.

CT is a large sandbox with a randomised, entertaining sailing/pirate and exploration gameplay. What you make of it depends largely on how you approach it, and whether you are ready to make your own story.

I'm aware that this will never make CT the popular, go-to title, but it never was that. CT is its own thing -- freedom if you want a break from the pre-written formula -- a breath of fresh air. Or at least that's the way I see it.

For example, instead of taking on a sidequest, I set a goal for myself in CT -- such as delivering a cargo I've been tasked with to one of the islands. On the way, unexpectedly, in the middle of the night, I encounter a large Spanish gold convoy -- a spectacular sight. Which sets me thinking, 'Will I ever amass my own merchant fleet'? Upon delivering the cargo, I am offered a shady assignment to smuggle some illegal goods by a new client. Do I take towards pirating, and turn my future fleet into something well armed (maybe one day attacking a Spanish convoy), or do I stay on the clean path, and aim to improve my trade relations, playing it peaceful and growing it big?

Just a beginning scenario off the top of my head to show you how a sidequest is not necessary to play and create your own story if the game helps your imagination out by throwing new and unexpected events your way -- which CT does quite often, and more as you progress further in the game. Actions you take can have future consequences.

Agreed. Instead of having the game dictate your story to you, you can also 'write' your own story as you play it yourself.
Bit like real life, where there are also no true pre-determined paths but you have to make your own choices and deal with the consequences of those choices.

It's a different kind of storytelling gameplay than POTC and the standard RPG formula.

Original PotC, that is. And also Build 13 to Build 14 Beta 3 or so.
But Beta 4 adds a lot of functionality that works in the direction you describe and I would love to see that further expanded on.

And the mod-added "Iron Man Game Mode" also shakes things up a lot. That disables pretty much everything that real captains at the time wouldn't have had available.
I added that functionality and tested it once for about an hour or so. That was the coolest hour I ever spent in the game!
Somewhere hiding on this forum, there is still my exciting report that I posted right after that.

Because "Sail To" and "WorldMap" and "artificial information through the spyglass" all don't exist, you're forced into the mindset of a genuine period sea captain.
I remember setting sail, it becoming foggy and suddenly being shot at from 'nowhere' and having to either fight or flee. It was just like the opening to the Master & Commander film really.
And that was just the first hour I ever tried that! Imagine playing for days on end, with you just ending up in random situations such as that and having to deal with it as you would've had to in reality.

So!! Cool!!!

 

[The Nameless Pirate]

That's what CoAS did, I think. It took the free play from CT and instead of adding a main story, it added a ton of (sometimes quite massive) side-quests instead.

That's something I really like in CoAS, you have several mainish quest lines that you can do in any order.

Also I believe that if you play free play on PotC: NH, or finish the "tutorial" in CoAS/TEHO and ignore the quests you will have the same or at least something close to CT.

But I would also like the opinion of those who have actually played CT.

 

[Cerez]

Yes! That's it, then. It's like having a vacation away from all the politics and normal day to day rules and basically go to a parallel world which doesn't have all that and just basically do what you want. I like that.

Yep, basically you have two base "rules" (or conditions) to start with:

1. You have a ship that needs up-keeping.
2. You have a crew that needs feeding.

That means you'll need to find work, any way you can find it. And you take it from there.

If you just want to roam around and attack people and ships randomly, and mess around -- to stage battles -- you can. There's no story to get in your way.

And if you want to dive into your own deep journey, and go on an adventure with any goals you see fit, you also can -- and you will meet new surprises along the way, each time. Each new journey will be unique.

Sometimes I just load the game up to sail -- just that -- to enjoy a peaceful voyage and the scenery.

You basically do whatever you want -- as long as it's within the fundamental design/mechanics of the game -- and the game doesn't try to shoehorn you, but instead simply compliments your chosen gameplay. It's an open world and gameplay, for anything to do with sailing the seas (and commanding a ship/fleet/colony).

That's what CoAS did, I think. It took the free play from CT and instead of adding a main story, it added a ton of (sometimes quite massive) side-quests instead.
Good, solid approach if you ask me.

Indeed. The challenge/difficulty level is high, but that's exactly what COAS has essentially done: it filled CT with pre-written main and sidequests, turning it into a classic open-world RPG, just like POTC.

Agreed. Instead of having the game dictate your story to you, you can also 'write' your own story as you play it yourself.
Bit like real life, where there are also no true pre-determined paths but you have to make your own choices and deal with the consequences of those choices.

Yeah. Like real life liberated, I would say -- and if real life was set in the Age of Sail in the Caribbean. An open world to explore and do anything you want to in (that is in some way related to sailing). No strings attached -- except those you create for yourself.

 

[Cerez]

Also I believe that if you play free play on PotC: NH, or finish the "tutorial" in CoAS/TEHO and ignore the quests you will have the same or at least something close to CT.

No, I tried this. COAS will interrupt you with sidequests -- often literally throwing them in your face (by characters interacting with you when you don't want them to). Having such scripted RP quests generally means that the game is not as free to roam (uninterrupted) as CT. The quests are designed to draw you in, and once that happens you're no longer fully in charge of the events, your story.

You are also limited in getting the resources you need to the storyline(s) of the game. Progress is dependent on completing quests. In CT you take jobs/tasks, not quests -- when you want/need to. If you have enough money, its whole world is open to you -- no story-based and/or progression barriers.

Edit:
And to make things even more convenient, CT has a hidden option that allows you to find a family treasure (if you know were it is) and be set for life. So if you want a shortcut to fully open access to the world to stage quick epic battles, that can very easily be arranged. There are no limits to gameplay in CT -- except the highest limits that the game world allows.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Also I believe that if you play free play on PotC: NH [...] and ignore the quests you will have the same or at least something close to CT.

Perfectly true. With very few exceptions, nobody forces you to follow the storylines; so if you don't feel like it, you can go do your own thing.
In fact, @Bartolomeu o Portugues often adds sections in his storylines where he requires you to do free play for a while on purpose.

Indeed. The challenge/difficulty level is high, but that's exactly what COAS has essentially done: it filled CT with pre-written main and sidequests, turning it into a classic open-world RPG, just like POTC.

If I'm not mistaken, technically CoAS doesn't really have a "main" quest at all. Though some of the sidequests are long and involved enough to almost count as one.

Yeah. Like real life liberated, I would say -- and if real life was set in the Age of Sail in the Caribbean. An open world to explore and do anything you want to in (that is in some way related to sailing). No strings attached -- except those you create for yourself.

Real life with that elusive "save and reload" button! Sometimes I wished I had a "Control+Z" for real.

No, I tried this. COAS will interrupt you with sidequests -- often literally throwing them in your face (by characters interacting with you when you don't want them to). Having such scripted RP quests generally means that the game is not as free to roam (uninterrupted) as CT. The quests are designed to draw you in, and once that happens you're no longer fully in charge of the events, your story.

You are also limited in getting the resources you need to the storyline(s) of the game. Progress is dependent on completing quests. In CT you take jobs/tasks, not quests -- when you want/need to. If you have enough money, its whole world is open to you -- no story-based and/or progression barriers.

In PotC, sometimes characters do pop up to draw you into their quests. But you're free to ignore them / tell them to 'get lost'.
Most of them even allow you to pick up where you left off later, since there are very few hard time limits.

 

[Cerez]

In PotC, sometimes characters do pop up to draw you into their quests. But you're free to ignore them / tell them to 'get lost'.
Most of them even allow you to pick up where you left off later, since there are very few hard time limits.

My problem is this:

I am roaming the town looking for the local trader to stock up on supplies, and thinking what I will need for the long journey ahead, and what obstacles I might face. Suddenly, a woman jumps in front of me, screaming that she needs help, and telling me her life story.

I DON'T care!!! I don't want that kind of interruption to my story. I don't want some text jumping in front of me and breaking my involmenent in my own planned journey.

I don't know -- does that make sense to you? As I said, it's a different kind of way of playing, a different gameplay to the classic RPG formula (even an open-world one). Here I am in charge of my plans and my story, and the game only colours my experiences -- it doesn't try to entice me, and it doesn't take charge of the events.

 

[The Nameless Pirate]

Well it does make sense some times you want to just do your own thing.
But you can still skip the dialog and continue your way can't you?

 

[The Nameless Pirate]

Anyway, I have the game somewhere so, I may try it out, if I find the time.

Maybe this formula is better if you have limited time, since there is no story you go in not expecting what will happen in that department.

 

[Cerez]

Well it does make sense some times you want to just do your own thing.
But you can still skip the dialog and continue your way can't you?

You're missing the point. CT doesn't have such story-based interruptions. None. Because it was originally designed with a different gameplay in mind: an open world where you decide what you want to do, and you are free to do what you want -- nothing pre-written to obstruct your view or get in your way.

Events that happen in CT are happening to the world, not to the player. Whether the player chooses to engage is entirely their action to perform.

Furthermore, with no pre-written stories to entice you, the world events are free to happen whenever they happen (always different), and you always remain in charge of what's happening to you and involved in your own story. You are truly free to move and act as you see fit, just like in real life.

CT was ambitiously designed as an open world with that kind of freedom in mind.

 

[The Nameless Pirate]

Thanks for your opinion @Cerez, as I said I may try the game when I find time.


Also I have a question, the question marks and exclamation marks, are removed by your patch or should I remove them myself?

 

[Cerez]

Also I have a question, the question marks and exclamation marks, are removed by your patch or should I remove them myself?

You can simply disable them in the game settings, but I would leave them on. In CT they are job markers, and it helps to know outright where you can find work.

Ordinary citizens have nothing of meaning to say currently in CT. I plan to expand this with a mod that's going to create truly interactive conversations with citizens, that feels much like real life -- where ordinary citizens even have memories of past chats/conversations -- and at that point turning off the job markers may make sense if you want to immerse yourself in the game world fully, but that's still a long way away.

 

[The Nameless Pirate]

I plan to expand this with a mod that's going to create truly interactive conversations with citizens, that feels much like real life -- where ordinary citizens even have memories of past chats/conversations -- and at that point turning off the job markers may make sense if you want to immerse yourself in the game world fully, but that's still a long way away.

Nice looking forward to it!

 

[Pieter Boelen]

My problem is this:

I am roaming the town looking for the local trader to stock up on supplies, and thinking what I will need for the long journey ahead, and what obstacles I might face. Suddenly, a woman jumps in front of me, screaming that she needs help, and telling me her life story.

I DON'T care!!! I don't want that kind of interruption to my story. I don't want some text jumping in front of me and breaking my involmenent in my own planned journey.

I don't know -- does that make sense to you? As I said, it's a different kind of way of playing, a different gameplay to the classic RPG formula (even an open-world one). Here I am in charge of my plans and my story, and the game only colours my experiences -- it doesn't try to entice me, and it doesn't take charge of the events.

That's your personal preference. Of COURSE it makes sense.
And I cannot possibly disagree with you.

As much as I tried to get PotC closer to the inspiration you suggest, it remains a different game concept.
And that's a good thing in my book.

I like how each game in the series has its pros and cons and there is no real objective "best" to be found.
I know we've tried to achieve a "best of all worlds" approach with New Horizons, but even that isn't perfect.

In the end, differences are there not to be complained about, but to be celebrated!
If everything were the same and everyone had the same preferences, what a mind-numbingly boring world this would be!!!