A second version of the USS Enterprise

[Post Captain]

Just a quick note if you're up for it-- You don't quite have a true brig yet- it could technically still be called a tops'l schooner. To be considered a brig, it needs proper t'gallant masts, and the main yard should be moved to just below the intersection of the mainmast proper and maintopmast. The main gaff should be just below the yard.

I'm gonna smack you. lol

Well make up a diagram or something for me. I wasn't finished making the last adjustments.

Alright, I should hopefully be able to do that while I'm being lectured on the Cold War today. Once you've got that, though, you'll pretty much be set for any future projects; all European square riggers generally share the same layout. Since I don't know of any sail plan for the brig Enterprise, I'll have to guess based on other brigs of that same time period.

 

[Legendary_Spider]

Just a quick note if you're up for it-- You don't quite have a true brig yet- it could technically still be called a tops'l schooner. To be considered a brig, it needs proper t'gallant masts, and the main yard should be moved to just below the intersection of the mainmast proper and maintopmast. The main gaff should be just below the yard.

I'm gonna smack you. lol

Well make up a diagram or something for me. I wasn't finished making the last adjustments.

Alright, I should hopefully be able to do that while I'm being lectured on the Cold War today. Once you've got that, though, you'll pretty much be set for any future projects; all European square riggers generally share the same layout. Since I don't know of any sail plan for the brig Enterprise, I'll have to guess based on other brigs of that same time period.

Maybe this will help: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Enterprise_(1799)

She started out as a shooner (we currently have a schooner model) and was later converted into a brig.

 

[Captain Armstrong]

here are a few references
http://www.ipernity.com/doc/mmssenf/1720382
http://www.flickr.com/photos/10000569@N06/3964914502/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/10000569@N06/3964140853/in/photostream/
the sailplan is from after rebuilding as a "brig I think, not 100% sure, but the black and whit etching is for sure of the enterprise in brig form.

 

[Post Captain]

I have a simplified diagram done showing all the masts and the important stays. I'll have to get it uploaded later tonight. You could also look at the cover of the Book Master and Commander as a fairly good reference for the spanker and lower shrouds and backstays.

 

[Post Captain]

Here'yago.

http://i780.photobucket.com/albums/yy82/Alexander_Ah/Ships/Brigspars001.jpg?t=1331180275

Keep in mind that this is only a rough sketch showing the layout of the masts and main and fore stays. I recommended looking up pictures of Niagara, even though it is not the closest match, since it is the only existing brig from around the time of Enterprise's conversion. I you are anywhere near the Pilgrim, we're giving free tours this Saturday for the Festival of Whales from around 10:00 to 2:30ish, and you could take more detailed pictures for references. We'll also have some of the foremost rigging experts in California (one has written four separate books on knot tying) who will be there answering questions. The Pilgrim does have some differences in the way the lower masts are rigged, but everything above the tops will be the same. (If you're lucky, you might see our fore t'gallant mast sent back up and rerigged, that should be happening this weekend.) If you go, you should ask for Lindsey or Charlie, they are qualified to answer any rigging question you might have.

 

[Legendary_Spider]

How funny you should mention the Pilgrim! I live in San Clemente, just 5 minutes south of Dana Point Harbor.

I see the Pilgrim and the Spirit of Dana Point all the time. I've been whale watching 3 times recently and got some awesome shots of whales, dolphins, and the Spirit, which we crossed paths with. Didn't realize the Pilgrim or the Spirit were taking part in the whale festival!

Free tours eh? That'd be a good opportunity for me to come get some reference shots of brig rigging for the Enterprise.

So you work on the Pilgrim? You've probably seen me around then. Especially during the tallship festival. I go every year.

Nice to know there's a fellow modder and lover of tallships nearby!

Will the Pilgrim actually be sailing? She's so beautiful under full sail and I just love taking pics of her. It's wonderful to have two local tallships.

I think we gotta get the Pilgrim in the game. It would be another historical US ship in the game. What do you think?

 

[Post Captain]

Spirit's actually sailing this Saturday, and the crew of Pilgrim (myself included) have been giving tours alongside of the work we've been doing on Saturdays.
Now, I think the next time we're going out is mid August. We'll be sailing for two weeks and then returning for the festival. (We need a few weeks to get the all sails rigged; they come down every year to preserve them from the weather.)
Right now our jibboom is missing most of its rigging, (makes it more interesting to climb out on, I can tell you) but the rigging on the mainmast is, for the most part, completely intact, and we should e in the process of getting everything back up on Saturday.

I would love to have Pilgrim ingame, but we would first have to find line drawings of the original hull. Our current hull is a 1945 wooden Baltic three masted schooner double-ender, (quite a mouthful) with very heavy modifications to reflect the original vessel.

Oh and I think I must have encountered you on You Tube a few months back- you might find this interesting. It was taken about two and a half weeks before the festival.

 

[Legendary_Spider]

Spirit's actually sailing this Saturday, and the crew of Pilgrim (myself included) have been giving tours alongside of the work we've been doing on Saturdays.
Now, I think the next time we're going out is mid August. We'll be sailing for two weeks and then returning for the festival. (We need a few weeks to get the all sails rigged; they come down every year to preserve them from the weather.)
Right now our jibboom is missing most of its rigging, (makes it more interesting to climb out on, I can tell you) but the rigging on the mainmast is, for the most part, completely intact, and we should e in the process of getting everything back up on Saturday.

I would love to have Pilgrim ingame, but we would first have to find line drawings of the original hull. Our current hull is a 1945 wooden Baltic three masted schooner double-ender, (quite a mouthful) with very heavy modifications to reflect the original vessel.

Yeah it seems like the only time I ever get to see the Pilgrim sail is during the tallship festival.

I see the Spirit sailing all the time. Sometimes I can even see it from my window. I've been on both ships, but only when they were sitting in the harbor. It must be a lot of fun to work on those ships. I wish I could do that. Alas, there's not really any place for a cripple on a tallship.

Indeed! We'll have to find some drawings or just try to make our best guesses at it. I''ll get her in the game if I have anything to say about it. We just need to make a plan and convince a modeler to make her from scratch or modify an existing vessel. We already have the Surprise from San Diego in the game.

I've also been trying to get people interested in bringing yet another historical US ship into the game, the Columbia. There's a full-scale replica of that ship at Disneyland, so I can get plenty of reference shots if I can ever get anyone interested in that ship.

Armada, can you make adjustments to your diagram for the Enterprise so I can make the rigging more accurate as per Post Captain's drawing? I still have to finish the Empress before I get back to my brig USS Enterprise project.

 

[Post Captain]

Indeed! We'll have to find some drawings or just try to make our best guesses at it. I''ll get her in the game if I have anything to say about it. We just need to make a plan and convince a modeler to make her from scratch or modify an existing vessel. We already have the Surprise from San Diego in the game.

Well, I know the people to ask about that. I do have some dimensions and I know that the original was built for the slave trade, so I'm assuming the hull was similar that of a very moderate Baltimore Clipper. I definitely think it can be done with a little tweaking of a current model.

I think I may have run in to you on Youtube a few months back. You might find this interesting. It was taken about two weeks before last year's festival. Unfortunately, we can't sail more often, since Pilgrim isn't certified to carry paying passengers, and since it takes so many trained volunteers to work the ship. (We couldn't even start the engine without our volunteer engineers- one is an 84 year old submariner from WWII.) And besides, the OI does need Pilgrim for its 18 hours before the mast program-- That's how I first got into tall ships years and years ago.

Edit: I'll write a list of important random facts for rigging brigs tomorrow or Saturday.

 

[Legendary_Spider]

Indeed! We'll have to find some drawings or just try to make our best guesses at it. I''ll get her in the game if I have anything to say about it. We just need to make a plan and convince a modeler to make her from scratch or modify an existing vessel. We already have the Surprise from San Diego in the game.

Well, I know the people to ask about that. I do have some dimensions and I know that the original was built for the slave trade, so I'm assuming the hull was similar that of a very moderate Baltimore Clipper. I definitely think it can be done with a little tweaking of a current model.

I think I may have run in to you on Youtube a few months back. You might find this interesting. It was taken about two weeks before last year's festival. Unfortunately, we can't sail more often, since Pilgrim isn't certified to carry paying passengers, and since it takes so many trained volunteers to work the ship. (We couldn't even start the engine without our volunteer engineers- one is an 84 year old submariner from WWII.) And besides, the OI does need Pilgrim for its 18 hours before the mast program-- That's how I first got into tall ships years and years ago.

Edit: I'll write a list of important random facts for rigging brigs tomorrow or Saturday.

Very nice. I reckon that's the closest I'll ever get to sailing on that ship. We'll get her into the game some day.

 

[Armada]

Armada, can you make adjustments to your diagram for the Enterprise so I can make the rigging more accurate as per Post Captain's drawing? I still have to finish the Empress before I get back to my brig USS Enterprise project.

If you remind me to do so when you need it, yes. Right now I have several modelling projects to sort out. :nk

As for brainstorming for a model of the Pilgrim, I expect it would be easier to modify an existing vessel than make one from scratch.
Great things can be done when using existing models; I've managed to completely transform the stock frigate, for instance.
If anyone can find/produce some accurate (or at least clear) plans, I'm sure a modeller will take her on eventually.
From the photos I've seen, she's a nice little brig.

 

[Legendary_Spider]

Armada, can you make adjustments to your diagram for the Enterprise so I can make the rigging more accurate as per Post Captain's drawing? I still have to finish the Empress before I get back to my brig USS Enterprise project.

If you remind me to do so when you need it, yes. Right now I have several modelling projects to sort out. :nk

As for brainstorming for a model of the Pilgrim, I expect it would be easier to modify an existing vessel than make one from scratch.
Great things can be done when using existing models; I've managed to completely transform the stock frigate, for instance.
If anyone can find/produce some accurate (or at least clear) plans, I'm sure a modeller will take her on eventually.
From the photos I've seen, she's a nice little brig.

Sweet. I've been using the Pilgrim for my signature. I took that pic at the last tallship festival in September. Me and PC will see what we can come up with.

 

[Post Captain]

And guess I'll ask some of the Ocean Institute's people if they know of any plans. If not, I'll search for the best ingame vessel to tweak. I know that there is a period print of the Pilgrim out there, but that's all I've seen.

Edit: if you know of any plans of early 1830's brigs built for the slave trade, around 80-90 feet unrigged, they would probably work. We definitely shouldn't use the current Pilgrim too much as a reference.

Keep in mind if you visit the Pilgrim tomorrow that the Enterprise didn't have trys'l masts, or a spencer. (the "extra masts" aft of the lower masts to which the spanker boom and gaff and spencer gaff are rigged, and the gaff rigged fore-and-aft sail on the foremast, respectively) I can draw a rigging diagram of all the important parts that should go on the model and that are not on the Pilgrim right now. (namely the royal and t'gallant braces, most of the stays on the jibboom, and a third of the foremast)

 

[Legendary_Spider]

And guess I'll ask some of the Ocean Institute's people if they know of any plans. If not, I'll search for the best ingame vessel to tweak. I know that there is a period print of the Pilgrim out there, but that's all I've seen.

Edit: if you know of any plans of early 1830's brigs built for the slave trade, around 80-90 feet unrigged, they would probably work. We definitely shouldn't use the current Pilgrim too much as a reference.

Keep in mind if you visit the Pilgrim tomorrow that the Enterprise didn't have trys'l masts, or a spencer. (the "extra masts" aft of the lower masts to which the spanker boom and gaff and spencer gaff are rigged, and the gaff rigged fore-and-aft sail on the foremast, respectively) I can draw a rigging diagram of all the important parts that should go on the model and that are not on the Pilgrim right now. (namely the royal and t'gallant braces, most of the stays on the jibboom, and a third of the foremast)

Sadly, it looks like I'll be missing the Whale Festival yet again.

I've always wanted to go too.
Wow, and here I thought the current Pilgrim was supposed to be a replica. lol Shows how much I really know about that ship.

I'll see what I can find online. It's handy having an actual member of the Pilgrim's crew here.

I'm sure we'll get her in the game one way or another.

My efforts on the Empress have been hindered because I've been using most of my time trying to find a job, plus in about a month I'll be moving. I really don't have much left on the Empress to finish. Then I'm gonna focus back on the Enterprise, because this project has been sitting idle since last summer when Armada handed the Black Pearl/Queen Anne's Revenge project to me.

 

[Post Captain]

Sadly, it looks like I'll be missing the Whale Festival yet again.

I've always wanted to go too.
Wow, and here I thought the current Pilgrim was supposed to be a replica. lol Shows how much I really know about that ship.

I'll see what I can find online. It's handy having an actual member of the Pilgrim's crew here.

Ah well... You didn't miss much on the tall ships, besides the partial rigging of Pilgrim's t'gallant mast. (I have a few videos I took in between jobs that I've uploaded to youtube) The Spirit of Dana Point was gone all day on a sail, but if you get the chance, you should take a look at its new paint on the head rails and figure head. We repainted the entire vessel and that area just got finished. It definitely look far better than it did before, and the figurehead has arms now.

The Pilgrim is still a replica, (converted in the 1970's in Portugal) but is in the same situation as Surprise in San Diego. While the rigging is accurate, the hulls weren't originally designed for either of the vessels, and they were both very heavily modified.

Sweet. I've been using the Pilgrim for my signature. I took that pic at the last tallship festival in September. Me and PC will see what we can come up with.

Heh... I can see myself sitting on the jibboom.

 

[Legendary_Spider]

Sweet. I've been using the Pilgrim for my signature. I took that pic at the last tallship festival in September. Me and PC will see what we can come up with.

Heh... I can see myself sitting on the jibboom.

Haha yeah, I remember you making that same comment on my video.

 

[Post Captain]

I'm sure we'll get her in the game one way or another.

Sorry for getting so off topic, but just a quick thought:
Why not add the Spirit of Dana Point instead? So far there aren't any really good matches in game, the plans were purchased from the Smithsonian, (by a guy who then preceded to build her single handed in his front yard) and it fits perfectly into the game's time period. We could also take reference pictures whenever we wanted (possibly even of the high-up rigging in my case).

 

[Legendary_Spider]

I'm sure we'll get her in the game one way or another.

Sorry for getting so off topic, but just a quick thought:
Why not add the Spirit of Dana Point instead? So far there aren't any really good matches in game, the plans were purchased from the Smithsonian, (by a guy who then preceded to build her single handed in his front yard) and it fits perfectly into the game's time period. We could also take reference pictures whenever we wanted (possibly even of the high-up rigging in my case).

Awww but the Pilgrim is better looking. lol

 

[Post Captain]

I'm sure we'll get her in the game one way or another.

Sorry for getting so off topic, but just a quick thought:
Why not add the Spirit of Dana Point instead? So far there aren't any really good matches in game, the plans were purchased from the Smithsonian, (by a guy who then preceded to build her single handed in his front yard) and it fits perfectly into the game's time period. We could also take reference pictures whenever we wanted (possibly even of the high-up rigging in my case).

Awww but the Pilgrim is better looking. lol

Really? I don't care much for Pilgrim's hull (not very briggish at all, and slab-sided) and she is a bit stump masted for a brig...

 

[Legendary_Spider]

I'm sure we'll get her in the game one way or another.

Sorry for getting so off topic, but just a quick thought:
Why not add the Spirit of Dana Point instead? So far there aren't any really good matches in game, the plans were purchased from the Smithsonian, (by a guy who then preceded to build her single handed in his front yard) and it fits perfectly into the game's time period. We could also take reference pictures whenever we wanted (possibly even of the high-up rigging in my case).

Awww but the Pilgrim is better looking. lol

Really? I don't care much for Pilgrim's hull (not very briggish at all, and slab-sided) and she is a bit stump masted for a brig...

She looked pretty to me. But then again, I'm not a sailor. lol Is the Spirit even historic at all?