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Calling a halt to the ModPack so we can update the Build

hmk, finally I've a chance and the means to show you something I was talking about... A towngirl, appropriate for some quest character or another and to be released in my next Captains Courageous, modelled after Christina Ricci in "Sleepy Hollow."

<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v251/alan_smithee/ricci.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
 
<img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/w00t.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":woot" border="0" alt="w00t.gif" /> Nice! My taste does not run to gowns, but this one is mighty fine! Great job, Alan!!! <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/onya.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":onya" border="0" alt="onya.gif" />
 
I think modders should play first what they will make up before it is public for people. I think it isn´t suffice to churn out the mods one by one but make sure the mods work properly and are good, playble and contributive, which doesn´t happen in all cases. Sometimes modders invent something which isn´t good and playable but they don´t know it often because they didn´t try them themselves and it isn´t good. I am playing Buil 12.1 + Modpack and I met such important bug in the main storyline which wasn´t present in previous Buil 12. Without Nathan help I couldn´t proceed in the game further. So, I think that certain responsibility to people is important here too. And I think in the future what is good in Mod pack should be include in Buil 13, so as the installation would be as simple as possible. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mybad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":facepalm" border="0" alt="mybad.gif" />
 
Yer point is well taken Rad,but keep in mind Mods now are updates to build 12.1 as Cataliiina pointed out,they are released to public for beta testing,Im sure modders check there code over o be sure it is correct but to expect them to play the game through main quest and all side quests would be unreasonable,so players must contribute to help fix any bugs,think of it as contributing to the modders and the pirate community in general <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/par-ty.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheers" border="0" alt="par-ty.gif" />
 
What you are seeing is the modding process at work, Rad. Pieter's ModPack, the one you are playing along with B12, is available now for testing purposes ONLY. We don't have a private group of testers, so we need people like you that volunteer to help test these mods so that we can make them as `bug-free` as possible before they are committed to the CVS and subsequently to the OFFICIAL Build release.

Anyone who picks up these "unofficial" mods (like Pieter's ModPack) which are not in the offical Build release has to understand that these other mods that are not already part of the Build (from the Build installer) are still being tested and worked upon to make them able to be fully integrated into the Build.

If you want to avoid any gameplay troubles, please don't play anything but the official release of the Build, which can be had from the online installer. That version, we are reasonably certain, is relatively `bug-free`... Any other mods we have NO GUARANTEES about because they are not yet part of the full Build.

What you've been doing with Nathan has helped make these "unofficial" mods more compatible with and ready for integration into the "official" Build, and we are happy to see anyone who offers to help us in this way. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/par-ty.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheers" border="0" alt="par-ty.gif" /> We DO appreciate your input (that's the whole idea of putting this ModPack out for all to test for us). <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":yes" border="0" alt="yes.gif" /> If you've found a bug in the ModPack that needs to be fixed, please report it here:

<a href="http://forum.piratesahoy.net/`ftopic4322-340`.php" target="_blank">http://forum.piratesahoy.net/`ftopic4322-340`.php</a>

so that we can take care of the problems. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/onya.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":onya" border="0" alt="onya.gif" />

Modder mod, testers test and do bug reports. I test my mods briefly to see that they aren't crashing the game before I release them for others to test, because if I did any thorough testing I would have no time to work on making mods at all. Each of us has their "job" in this process. It's the way it works. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dunno.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":shrug" border="0" alt="dunno.gif" />
 
Hear hear.
There are differing modding "styles" if you will; one is to test everything to death, to make sure it works flawlessly, and only then release it.
But the downside is that, all that time it's being tested, no one but the modders themselves get to play it!

The other extreme is to release immediately after only checking that the game doesn't crash.
That puts the same amount of stress on the playtesters, to find bugs and test it in all ways, but the difference is that _anyone_ can choose to be a playtester.

So as Cat says, if you don't like playing (potentially) buggy mods, stick to the `officially-released` stable versions.

I like open betas because they're symbiotic; the modders get more people to test and give feedback, and the testers get to play the mods.
But that doesn't mean anyone's _forced_ to test the mods. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />
 
True... And I really like the feedback in open betas; it helps - especially if there's a problem with HOW something is put together, like somebody doesn't like this because it's not quite *correct* in a historical sense, or it's too silly, or an unreal situation, or whatever... Every little bit helps! <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/onya.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":onya" border="0" alt="onya.gif" />
 
Ahoy, all. Nathan you know me I never refuse some beta testing I only wanted to say so as anybody would accept your resposibility in this process, modders, testers and even players. No extremes are good here. So as nobody had too high ego and worked (if freely chose so) as humble as possible so as the Builds was as good as possible in the future. So as one would be able in some cases tell to oneself "no it isn´t good what I made up here, it rather would spoil all the current game." No stagnation, only proceeding further and high. Subordinate one´s ego to the common good. I think Catalina and Nathan you know what I mean by it. It asks for some inner discipline, responsibility and even respecting some authority and hierarchy in modding here. It won´t work if anybody could insert into the builds anything what one wants only for the reason that would say to oneself "it was me who made it and it is in the game now." I think it is good matter to selflessly support good things but reject adamantly some bad experiments. I mean it well. But nobody would be able to test several builds if similar useless bugs would repeat in them again and agin. It is quite difficult thing to play one game anew and anew. I played builds 6,7 8,9 10 and 12 so that I know something about it already. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/onya.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":onya" border="0" alt="onya.gif" />
 
did all you guys really join in 1969 because 4 days ago it said u guys joined in 1970!! <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":?" border="0" alt="unsure.gif" />
 
<img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" /> <b>Orias, </b>a lot of the lengthier memberships were inadvertently reset to 1970 when the forum was updated, and just a couple of days ago Keith put in a new update so some of the old membership dates were reset again. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":rolleyes:" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" /> Go figure. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dunno.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":shrug" border="0" alt="dunno.gif" />

<b>Rad,</b> we have exactly those kinds of controls you mention here set on who gets to update the CVS and the Build update, so it isn't just anybody who gets to put mods into the Build - new mods go through a process of bugtesting and of course if there are any problems with anything we all discuss it to come up with solutions. If the mod is not acceptable for any reason (incompatibility or whatever) the mods are separate and not put into the Build.

Was there something in particular you don't like about the current Build? Or upcoming mods? Please express yourself specifically - As I said, we appreciate the input! <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/par-ty.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheers" border="0" alt="par-ty.gif" />
 
Hi Catalina. I hope Nathan corrected this already but for sureness once again. When I played the main stroryline about destroying of bark Oiseau, everything was good in Build 12. But in version 12.1 with Modpoack situation appeared that when after my talk with captain of Oiseaus I go for my ships at Octobus bay. But French don´t let mi in the harbour and I can´t achor in the port. It was a serious new bug and I hope Nathan corrected it. And the second thing, when I go to the blacksmith in Dawnseen he imoproved only one sword for me and further he refuses do it with any other again. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mybad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":facepalm" border="0" alt="mybad.gif" />
 
Rad, re: blacksmith: I admit it's not fully `bug-free` yet; a lot of people have become inadvertant but hopefully not unwilling playtesters and `bug-finders` for me there. Barring this being an error, make sure 1) you have enough money to pay for the repair, and 2) try talking to him again, or try equipping a different sword, then `re-equipping` the one you want fixed, then talking to him.
 
Rad, regarding what you say above: I agree with you that quality is indeed important, that bugfinding and fixing is important.
But I also agree with CCC (who states this elsewhere) that not everyone's taste in mods is the same. What to one person is fun, to another "it rather would spoil all the current game."

So we endeavor to make mods toggleable, so that for those who don't like a mod they can turn it off; but we can't tell people who _do_ like a mod "we're taking it out because someone else /doesn't/ like it."

And in terms of quality--quality is great. But as above, I'd rather, and I think most people would rather, have a mod of lower quality (that may in time be improved), then either wait until it's of stirling quality to play it (or, more likely, never play it at all, since it may never get released due to `never-ending` tweaking, or the creator losing interest). And again, there's a certain individualism. While we probably all agree that poor spelling (to take one example), or things that crash/don't work, are pretty universally bad for quality, on other things one person's idea of what increases the quality may be different, or even diametrically opposed, to another's.

Example: some people like campy, corny, funny mods, or mods with one's own name in them--mods that purposefully shout "this is a game!"; but some people think they spoil the sense of the game being real.

And that example I see as one of differing interpretations of quality, rather than just differing likes (well, that is to say that a disagreement about what quality is, is a subset of different likes).
 
Mebbe what ol' Rad needs be his own moddin' assignment! <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/onya.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":onya" border="0" alt="onya.gif" />
 
Yes, I know. So many people and so many opinions about anything. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mybad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":facepalm" border="0" alt="mybad.gif" />
 
Didn't somebody call it the Bazaar or something?

My view is, if the good ideas/bad ideas ratio stays constant, the more ideas there are, the more good ideas there are. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />
 
Hmm. Wasn't Cat wanting to have an udate to Build 12 ready? If you tell us what you reckon should be finished before you can make a new update, we can try and get those things finished as top priority. I reckon almost everything released should work `more-or`-less fine. The disarming feature can be saved for another update; I don't have the time to get it fixed myself soon. You can leave it in the update, but turn it off by default.
 
Sorry about not getting back to you re: disarm. I got kinda swamped with coding itemtrading. I'll have something for you ASAP. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/oops3.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":eek:ops2" border="0" alt="oops3.gif" />
 
I am awaiting word that what we have is settled down and actually ready to commit. I have no clue as to what is stable and what is not, as I've not been able to test much lately... But let me know, get the package together, and we'll get Mad Jack to crank the system up and let it fly. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":yes" border="0" alt="yes.gif" /> <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/par-ty.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheers" border="0" alt="par-ty.gif" />
 
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