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Calling a halt to the ModPack so we can update the Build

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm sure we don't want to make this a personality issue, so are you saying that you also want all of my new skins to be added as well?  <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes of course (and catalina's and grim's and any other). I only said alan's because that's what was being talked about - sorry.
 
Cat, Could we get JMV's military skins mod included in the new update? I think they are very good. I also like seeing the new soldiers when you board or get into a fight in town.
 
<img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mybad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":facepalm" border="0" alt="mybad.gif" /> <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="xD:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" /> Gawd... See what I started here? <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":rolleyes:" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" /> <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mybad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":facepalm" border="0" alt="mybad.gif" />

<img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_praise.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":bow" border="0" alt="icon_praise.gif" /> Okay, settle down, everyone! <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_praise.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":bow" border="0" alt="icon_praise.gif" /> Please! <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_praise.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":bow" border="0" alt="icon_praise.gif" /> I'd like to see whatever is finished and tested and WORKS without shutting down parts or all of the game to be included. I do not want to shut anyone out.

This goes for skins too, although, MM, I am unsure that we can include JMV's military skins mod (they ARE excellent, I agree) - is it set up so it can be switchable via BuildSettings.h ? Some people may not want to use them. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":?" border="0" alt="unsure.gif" /> Actually I thought they were to be ONLY an elective - like the extra textures package that was put together for B11. Perhaps if that can be done, MM, we can add JMV's military skins as an elective download. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/onya.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":onya" border="0" alt="onya.gif" />

Petros has a point about the extra character skins not needed for a quest, tho. Perhaps these SHOULD be made into a separate modpack you can electively download - including those just recently added to the tailor shops like the girls I made and the girls Petros enabled with portraits - and Alan's new group. Do you think someone can package those up separately?

I have been testing these modpacks Pieter has been putting together, sporadically (when I can, and <b>AHEM!!!</b> to the detriment of my own personal mod - Sneaky Trader - development, <b>AHEM!!!</b>), and I hope whatever notes I'm making have been helpful... I asked some others to test too, and I hope they've been doing that.

I'm all for waiting for a few bugs to be ironed out in mods that are FINISHED and in Pieter's modpack already - the trusty fists and disarm mod may take some work, so these can, as Pieter suggests, be included but switched OFF until we can get an update in that will get them working correctly.

My reason for this announcement was to let you know we should consider closing off Pieter's modpack to <b>new</b> mods and settle this package so that we can MOVE FORWARD. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheeky" border="0" alt="icon_mrgreen1.gif" /> I did not mean to cause a panic! <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/no.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":no" border="0" alt="no.gif" /> <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/par-ty.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheers" border="0" alt="par-ty.gif" />

So have some ale, <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/beer2.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":beer" border="0" alt="beer2.gif" /> and think it over. What do YOU want for this update (for it IS only an UPDATE).

Keep in mind that these will be updates from now on, because of the clever way Mad Jack (thank you, Mad Jack!) has configured the installer. We can add an update at any time - and if anyone wishes or needs to download the entire B12 they can. Those of us who need only updates or extras will only need to download the update or extra of their choice. . <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/onya.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":onya" border="0" alt="onya.gif" />
 
Cat is right, no need for panic. I think we will in the future see a steady flow of new mods, so we can make an update about every two months. So what doesn't make it into this update will be in the next, and in probably better shape than now, cause there are always improvements and bugfixes.

As for all the beautiful new skins, I could employ them for random characters (citizens, travellers, bandits) if the authors agree. But in that case they must be in the package, or otherwise my code might search for them in vain.

Thanks for the ale <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/par-ty.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheers" border="0" alt="par-ty.gif" />
 
You - or anyone - may use whatever I have contributed for whatever you wish, CCC. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/onya.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":onya" border="0" alt="onya.gif" /> Just don't use the quest characters I made - Fred Bob, Armand, or Estrella - for I have plans for them! <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="icon_wink.gif" /> <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":yes" border="0" alt="yes.gif" /> <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/par-ty.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheers" border="0" alt="par-ty.gif" />
 
Firedrill has just been rewritten according to Cat's proposals, and Boardingparty will be rewritten to include the weaponslocker feature. So I'd say that the Captain's Challenge should be postponed to the NEXT update.
 
Yep, seperate character modpacks is good. It was compatibility I was worried about for the optional ones, so the portrait numbers and such don't overwrite one another. Since the numbers can be increased much higher than I first thought, the only thing to settle is assigning maybe a series of numbers; for instance, I've been starting from 200, which is all code that's been added new and nothing replaced.

Many of the skins I'm working on I'd intended for my own quests, but those are kind of kaput for now and I didn't want them to just sit langouring on my machine and not enjoyed by anyone. But then there're a few I think who'd be good for existing `main-and` `side-quest` characters... for instance, I've a few very `well-dressed` ladies who could replace the overused towngirl1 model, who stands for Rachel Blacque and about a dozen others.
 
I think it would be a great Idea to use all of those skins (with exception of the quest resevered ones of course) as random characters, you see way too many of the same characters everywhere.

For those with dial up I think it would be good if this was an optional download/feature. If possible could it be made so people who don't like a paticular skin easily remove the skin from being added into the random generator by commenting the skins they dislike out. Just a thought.

I like the idea of doing an update every two months (or sooner if need be) to incorperate the new bugfixes/mods everyone is working on.

Keep up the good work all.
 
For character skins: why not use Viper's Patch Util?

If we write the *.potc files so there's a separate install one and uninstall one, we can make them interoperable with other *.potc'd skin packs[fn1], and that way they'd be a la carte rather than in packs.

[fn1] the reason for this is structural, in that the install version looks for:
<!--c1--><div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><!--ec1-->// add new characters above this line<!--c2--></div><!--ec2-->
or whatever it is in models.c and facemaker.c
And replaces it with:
<!--c1--><div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><!--ec1-->//new char 1

// add new characters above this line<!--c2--></div><!--ec2-->

BUT: if you install two chars, you will have
<!--c1--><div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><!--ec1-->//new char 1

//new char 2

// add new character above this line<!--c2--></div><!--ec2-->

And if you go to uninstall char 1, it will fail because it is looking to uninstall
<!--c1--><div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><!--ec1-->//new char 1

// add new ch...<!--c2--></div><!--ec2-->

So you write a separate uninstall potc that has _only_
<!--c1--><div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><!--ec1-->//new char 1

{new line}<!--c2--></div><!--ec2-->
in it's search field and _nothing_ in the replace field, so it will remove the char 1 and the trailing blank line.

That's how you get interoperable uninstall (I hope).
 
I think we can use the B12 installer Mad Jack made, Nathan...

(WB, BTW!) <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/onya.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":onya" border="0" alt="onya.gif" /> <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheeky" border="0" alt="icon_mrgreen1.gif" />
 
If you make seperate installation packages, don't you risk them overwriting each other? So if you install, say, Fanielle, you would deinstall the skins you already had installed? <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ohmy.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":eek:" border="0" alt="ohmy.gif" />
 
Yes, that's a dilemma we'll have to overcome with each new update but I think it can be handled if we stay on top of updating the facemaker files in each character package each time we alter them in the regular build updates. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/onya.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":onya" border="0" alt="onya.gif" />
 
Thankee, Cat. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

Right, that's why I suggest Viper's patchutil, because it operates within the code files, rather than copying one on top of another.

Unless MadJack's installer also does diffing? (I can't recall). If so, sorry, never mind, move along, this isn't the installer you're looking for. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="icon_wink.gif" /> <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/oops3.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":eek:ops2" border="0" alt="oops3.gif" />
 
The way the installer works is that I compare the files on the network to the files on the target machine. If the date/time stamp <b>and</b> CRC of a file on the server is newer, then the file on the target machine is overwritten, savvy? <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

So, as Catalina so correctly pointed out, if we're dilligent about the files placed in the updates, we'll have no trouble at all. That begs a proper change process, whereby new files are properly vetted and we avoid overwriting necessary files altogether. But that's very doable. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/par-ty.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheers" border="0" alt="par-ty.gif" />
 
Um, right. But the problem is the models.c file.
If we do the `overwrite-files` method, we'll need an initmodels.c file for every possible situation (this new model and this new model but not that one, it's not installed) whereas if we can change the file itself line by line then we can do a la carte model insertion.

No disrespect to your excellent installer intended, of course. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />
 
<img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/oops3.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":eek:ops2" border="0" alt="oops3.gif" /> I can't even pretend to understand this installer stuff. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dunno.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":shrug" border="0" alt="dunno.gif" /> <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":rolleyes:" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" /> <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="icon_wink.gif" />
 
<!--`QuoteBegin-NathanKell`+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(NathanKell)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->...if we can change the file itself line by line then we can do a la carte model insertion.[/quote]

Very simple to do. As each model is added, the installer can be made to insert the required lines in an existing file withou overwriting the entire file. If a user decides to uninstall a given model, then only the corresponding lines will be removed. It'll mean a little extra work for yours truly, but c'est la guerre. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />
 
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As each model is added, the installer can be made to insert the required lines  <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Now THAT's cool <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/william.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":will" border="0" alt="william.gif" />
 
Mad Jack put together a VERY fine installer package! <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":yes" border="0" alt="yes.gif" /> Have some RUM, Mad Jack! <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/par-ty.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheers" border="0" alt="par-ty.gif" /> <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/beer2.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":beer" border="0" alt="beer2.gif" /> <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/buds.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":drunk" border="0" alt="buds.gif" />
 
Mad Jack, happy warrior in the Installer Wars. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/onya.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":onya" border="0" alt="onya.gif" /> <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheeky" border="0" alt="icon_mrgreen1.gif" />
Cheers!
 
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