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Ok you got me. I didn't know this about the spanish war galleons. I have found this Galleon where it says they mounted demi culverins. Is this what you say or there were real culverins too?. I have to read more, i wonder how many of them were mounted on each side, 9-10?That paragraph specially this sentence from that book is mixing different terms with little knowledge. Culverins weren't the main gun, they were special long range guns mounted in the bow or stern if there was space enough to place them and operate them. Just the opposite, smashers is how they called the short range, heavy shot weight guns made by the Carron Company (carronades) in the XVIII century. Yes, those were devastating if fired at close range (and useless at longer range), but they weren't culverins at all, and culverins weren't fired in broadsides.
You can't make a generalization here that applies to the entire age of sail. Spain is actually credited with consolidating standard bore and weight sizes in the 16th century. Sweden often gets the credit for this during the times of Gustavus Adolphus. It's true he standardized it for land armies, but it had already been done in the Armies of Prince Maurice during the first decade of the 17th century. However, standardized bore and weight sizes in naval guns were already well established by then.
Even though Spain gets the credit, it was the Netherlands (which were a Spanish possession at the time) where the good guns were being made. Spain and France had horrible foundries and bad ores. They had not figured out the mixtures yet. Those countries imported the vast majority of their guns from the Netherlands. When the Dutch broke away from Spain during their successful 80 year war of rebellion, they established the first Swedish gun works, the German gun works at Asslar/Wetzlar, and Russian gun foundries at Tula. The Dutch were truly the engineers that brought the world the common naval gun standards adopted by every other European nation - including England, for the following two centuries. The Dutch became the great arms traders of the 17th century.
The Dutch produced thousands of Bronze culverines during the 16th and 17th centuries. I have sources that give numbers made by year and factory if desired. Before standardization, odd guns like 50 pounder culverines were even produced in limitted numbers for naval use on the largest Spanish War Galleons of the 16th century. Some of these ships mounted even larger bombards that were more closely related to seige weapons than naval artillery. During the Dutch naval reforms of the first and second Anglo-Dutch Wars (which saw the largest battles in history during the age of sail), it was not unusual for large Dutch galleons to have complete batteries of 24 pounder culverines. These were NOT chasers. They were primary armament.
I have no arguments with what you state for the Eighteenth Century and especially within the Royal Navy, but you cannot apply that to the whole. After all, COAS is set in the year 1665.
BTW I am developing a mod as we speak that is going rather well - that will become a COAS period mod. The first installment GOF: Colonization 1580-1620 is working nicely. I have simply eliminated all the ships outside the era, added Officerpuppies older uniforms, added the older period flags, and thanks to Luke have changed the alliances to match that era. I am doing another now called GOF: The Golden Century 1648-1725 and will do a final one called GOF: Buccaneer's Sunset 1750-1820. As it stands now each mod is a seperate game. We do not know how to bundle them together yet so that you could just pick the era you want to play. My music mod is finished and I'm just waiting for permission to use a couple of the tracks before I release it. For GOF: Bucaneer's Sunset, I'm thinking about having a different music mod that has later music more akin to the Hornblower series. This will give our players that have complained for a long time about the mis-matched out of period ships in the same sand box, what they want. I hope to have the mods all finished by Christmas. Sounds like you would like to play the late era.
MK
I'll see how can be done and i'll write to you. The only problem is that all guns in the ship have to be the same type. So if we made a carronade type like the 68 lbs of the Victory, then a ship armed with say 50 of those guns would be a killer at less than 100 yards but defenseless at other ranges. I don't know which of the two i like the least, the all culverins or the all carronadesI've changed the range for cannons and culverines and will test them out, a lot of other key things have changed which has a impact of naval battles and will increase the use of tactics. We can't make COAS 100% historically accurate but we can improve its engine slightly to be more accurate and give a much better feeling for the time. Its alway's been my aim to improve tactical naval battles but with as much realism as possible, if the range of the cannons takes away from the tactical side then they need to be changed and so they have for that reason as well as other things.
Sadly its not possible to change what calibures can be mounted where in that you can't define chase guns to be a different calibure to the calibure the ship has mounted. So if you want to mount 24Ibs culverines as chase guns then all guns would need to be 24Ibs, sad but thats the way it is. Ships in the battle of trafalgar did have 42Ibs mounted, the Victory had 2 68Ibs mounted, so we have kept the calibures as close to real as possible. If we could we would change it so small ships wouldn't be able to mount culverines, making it even more realistic, but sadly we haven't been able to do that yet. I do think it is possible though. Maybe even changing it so each ship has 2 seperate enteries for maximum calibures, 1 for cannons and 1 for culverines. Then we could drastically change the mechanic of naval battles.
Well there is a way to change that in the game as follows.
Culverines
4, 8 = 400
12, 16 = 450
20, 24 = 500
28, 32 = 550
Cannons
4, 8 = 300
12, 16 = 350
20, 24 = 400
28, 32 = 450
36, 42 = 500
48, 92 = 550
By changing it to the above value's the culverines would have greater range compared to the cannons than they do in GOF 1.1.2, but the calibures would be grouped to reduce overal shot distance and bring all ships closer together the way you like it bringing back into the game tactical disissions to be made that could lead on to victory or loose you the battle. How does this sound to you?
P.S.
Please note 42 and 48Ibs cannons are only seen mounted on MOW's and maybe some quest ships and you can't upgrade to these calibures at Bermuda. While 92Ibs will only ever be seen on the forts and can't be purchased from shipyards any where in the caribbean.
GOF 1.1.x have changed nothing related with that flag, but I don't know if GOF 1.x changed something.
Cheers.
buho (A).
Ok you got me. I didn't know this about the spanish war galleons. I have found this Galleon where it says they mounted demi culverins. Is this what you say or there were real culverins too?. I have to read more, i wonder how many of them were mounted on each side, 9-10?
Well i can't deny they got long range guns, just let me explain why i think the effective ranges were much shorter. Many naval battle report i have read of those times tell the same story. Two ships firing at each other from less than 50 yards. There were no long range fights. At least i haven't read any so far. Besides Nelson favorite tactics in Trafalgar, battles of the Nile and of Copenhagen, read this about the frigate Constitution:
"Guerriere opened fire upon entering range of Constitution doing little damage. After a few exchanges of cannon fire between the ships, Captain Hull maneuvered into an advantageous position and brought Constitution to within 25 yards (23 m) of Guerriere. He then ordered a full double-loaded broadside of grape and round shot fired which took out Guerriere's mizzenmast." [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Constitution" ]USS Constitution[/url]
My reasoning is: that happened in the beginning of the XIX century, when naval tactics had been developing for 2-3 centuries. Still a superb designed frigate at the time, engages some british ships and the battles ended at close range. Why should be different in 1600? By logic, guns should be more powerful and accurate after a century of warfare. Why did they evolve in that direction?
I
Question gives in the GOF 1.1.2 Mod the Queen Anne's Revenge as Enemy Ship with Cpt. Blackbeard?
And that means what?
I saw a video on YouTube of GOF 1.2
is that gof 1.1.2 ?
To all GOF Modders.
Please add Cpt. Blackbeard and the Real Ship Model of queen anne's revenge to GOF 1.2
Co
To all GOF Modders.
Please add Cpt. Blackbeard and the Real Ship Model of queen anne's revenge to GOF 1.2
Co
We will be don't worry.
Is captain BlackBeard in GOF 1.1.2? i don't think he is even in the new work, in fact is there even a BlackBeard character for COAS or POTC ready or been worked on?
To all GOF Modders.
Please add Cpt. Blackbeard and the Real Ship Model of queen anne's revenge to GOF 1.2
Co
We will be don't worry.
Is captain BlackBeard in GOF 1.1.2? i don't think he is even in the new work, in fact is there even a BlackBeard character for COAS or POTC ready or been worked on?
Oh nice to read that you Work on BlackBeard and on the Real Queen Anne's Revenge Ship.
"I mean the Cpt. BlackBeard and Real queen Anne' Revenge ship simply still belong into a pirate's Game."
So please do your Best.
PS: What do you think will GOF 1.2 ready for Release?
Cu
Jack
To all GOF Modders.
Please add Cpt. Blackbeard and the Real Ship Model of queen anne's revenge to GOF 1.2
Co
We will be don't worry.
Is captain BlackBeard in GOF 1.1.2? i don't think he is even in the new work, in fact is there even a BlackBeard character for COAS or POTC ready or been worked on?
Oh nice to read that you Work on BlackBeard and on the Real Queen Anne's Revenge Ship.
"I mean the Cpt. BlackBeard and Real queen Anne' Revenge ship simply still belong into a pirate's Game."
So please do your Best.
PS: What do you think will GOF 1.2 ready for Release?
Cu
Jack
I'm not sure if there is a BlackBeard character ready or been worked on at the moment.![]()
I can't give a time frame for GOF 1.2 because there are still many things to get finished and some bugs to fix, followed by testing. It could be before xmas (don't hold your breath though) or towards April/May of next year. We are working as best we can and hopefully will have GOF 1.2 ready for you guy's soon.![]()