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Look at the Facts

Civrules

Civrules

Landlubber
Well, I know many say that Pirates! compared to some other game is somewhat unrealistic. I used to think so too, but after reading some historically correct information on a very cool website, it was almost like I was reading features from the Pirates! website.

Here is an article about Blackbeard, for example:
<a href="http://www.geocities.com/captcutlass/bio/blackbeard.html" target="_blank">http://www.geocities.com/captcutlass/bio/b...blackbeard.html</a>

And here is the home page of the pirate site:
<a href="http://www.geocities.com/captcutlass/" target="_blank">http://www.geocities.com/captcutlass/</a>

I mean literally, sometimes it is as if you are actually reading features of the game straight from a real history site. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" />
 
I don't know where I read this, but apparently, there was a very famous pirate escape from a prison fort(?) in the carribean... the prisoners escaped by tunnels, though, and not through a village, as seen in screenshots.

I'd be very suprised if there wasn't a variation of the prison escape sequence which features tunnels, though.

Perhaps someone can remember which prison escape I'm talking about, and get the attention of the Firaxis coder reading this forum, and get it included in the game? (Hopefully including some historical factoids in the manual as well.) Should be a too good opportunity to miss out on, I think, since the basic escape from jail system is already in the game, and might settle some of us who is worried about the cartoon graphics, and console esque "special moves" of the fighting sequences.
 
Guys, I've been saying this all along. Pirates! (old and presumably new) is much more realistic than any games that have appeared since. Cutthroats: Terror on the High Seas comes very close and exceeds it in many ways.

I could be wrong about this, but does anyone have an OLD version of the Pirates! game manual? I'm not talking the Sega Genesis version or Pirates! Gold for the PC which both fell victim I think to the downsizing of paper. I mean one of the originals. Did they not provide a ton of references used in the creation of the game? Again, I could be wrong. One way or another I know Sid & company did a ton of homework, research and study when putting together Pirates! Much was obviously tossed out because their first intention was to make a fun game, but they did stay well within the boundaries of acceptable history. And (I'll say it again) Akella totally disregarded the Papal Line of Demarcation when they made Spanish and Portuguese possessions in the same waters (sounds like a small thing to us in 2004 but believe me it would be the same as making a game on the 1960s, 70s and 80s Cold War and having the USA and USSR as allies and both members of NATO). Akella uses the Archipelago which is obviously a big joke if you've ever looked at a map. There are no striking of colors and pirate companies do not observe the cardinal rule of "No Prey, No Pay" (which is about the equivalent of building a PC and neglecting to add the CPU) - THAT'S how central the division of spoils was to West Indian piracy and probably elsewhere.

Other popular games like Port Royale and that `rip-off` Pirate Hunter which I was stupid enough to buy (after already owning PR and finding it was just "PR Light") do not break as many rules as Akella's graphically beautiful abortion of history, but they fail in the things they omit. Great as `age-of`-sail business simulators but abysmal as pirate games. Pirates! adds so much more.

I am not writing these things to get into a debate about whether other games are good or not. The argument has been made that none of them are sims so why should I care if they are realistic or not? Well, I have my own reasons. For one, getting back to SD/POTC, I wonder to myself why a company would go to so much trouble to make these ships, water and physics so utterly convincing and then fail on such simple, fundamental, easily implemented details. But that's neither here nor there. No, they are not sims. Neither is Pirates! But the question is one of realism. The point of contention is which of these games comes closest to "getting it right". Civrules is very accurate in his interpretation of the research he's done so far. I would challenge everyone who has not done so yet and has an interest in this subject to do similar research and make your own conclusions. Does the level of realism mean one game should be more enjoyable than another? Not at all. In the end I enjoy Pirates! most because I think it is the most `well-balanced`, rewarding, enjoyable and well thought out of the pack. That's the most important thing, and also the most relative. No one can argue which is better based on pure entertainment value because it's a matter of personal preference. Pirates! has a gazillion "Best Game of All Time" awards which says something for the game itself, but if your thing is watching a stately frigate pitch and roll in the open sea, painted crimson by the setting sun with two French `man-of`-wars looming dangerously in the distance, then SD/POTC is for you and no game ever made can touch it by a mile. Yes, all of these games have strengths and weaknesses. But when it comes to realistically recreating the life and times of a pirate captain and crew, Pirates! is the more realistic alternative and to date, no German or Russian producers have come close to matching them.

I'm done.

By the way, Catalina, I downloaded and installed Build 11 and you are right, it is very good. Funny thing is (and I think you will agree), many of the goals of this collective group of modders seemed to be making POTC more realistic by way of adding concepts from Pirates! Hmmm, a funny thing, ain't it? Oh one more thing. The darned thing crashed on me the second time I raised my colors. Has this been reported as a glitch or was it anomalous you think?

<img src="http://publish.hometown.aol.com/markquinn2k3/images/newquinn02.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" />
 
<!--`QuoteBegin-MarkQuinn`+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MarkQuinn)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I could be wrong about this, but does anyone have an OLD version of the Pirates! game manual?  I'm not talking the Sega Genesis version or Pirates! Gold for the PC which both fell victim I think to the downsizing of paper.  I mean one of the originals.  Did they not provide a ton of references used in the creation of the game? [/quote]

I have the original manuals from the Amiga, C64 and PC (they're all the same), there aren't any references listed. But as with all those early Microprose classics, it's clear they did their homework. The manual is filled with historical background information on piracy, the time period and political climate of the region.
 
<!--`QuoteBegin-MarkQuinn`+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MarkQuinn)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->For one, getting back to SD/POTC, I wonder to myself why a company would go to so much trouble to make these ships, water and physics so utterly convincing and then fail on such simple, fundamental, easily implemented details.[/quote]In a word... DISNEY. --> <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_twisted.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":twisted:" border="0" alt="icon_twisted.gif" /> You want to talk about an abortion of history, blame them. They bought the game out from under Akella's control and asked them to make changes and take shortcuts and put it out before it was really finished - and that is why the unmodded game is the way it is. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":blah:" border="0" alt="tongue.gif" />

<!--`QuoteBegin-MarkQuinn`+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MarkQuinn)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->By the way, Catalina, I downloaded and installed Build 11 and you are right, it is very good.  Funny thing is (and I think you will agree), many of the goals of this collective group of modders seemed to be making POTC more realistic by way of adding concepts from Pirates![/quote]Yes, that was deliberate! <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheeky" border="0" alt="icon_mrgreen1.gif" /> After all, a lot of the modders are old Pirates! players, and they remember what was great about that game...

Glad you're enjoying it. The modders aim has been to make PotC SEA DOGS II. Basically, it is continuing to work up into the game Akella wanted to make before they were bought out by Disney.

Akella is now working on the "proper" version of Sea Dogs II - might have to call it something else if they release it outside of Russia, but they are finally getting to finish the game the way they wanted to in the first place.

If you look at the map that was released for the Russian version of this game, some of the islands look very similar to ones on the PotC map - but the map is the "REAL" Caribbean... They were at work at this game trying to make it right before Disney bought it out from under them (via Bethesda)...

I talked to some of the Akella people at E3 and they expressed their disappointment with what happened with the game after Disney bought it... They know how we `historically-minded` gamers feel, and believe me, they have paid attention to our comments... They're trying to make the game right.

We may all have to learn Russian to play it, tho! <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="xD:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" />

<!--`QuoteBegin-MarkQuinn`+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MarkQuinn)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The darned thing crashed on me the second time I raised my colors.  Has this been reported as a glitch or was it anomalous you think?[/quote]I don't recall a crash happening because of your raising colors - Perhaps you should ask in the PotC Modding section - under "BUGS ONLY". Someone will hopefully answer you and help you fix the trouble, and if it's a universal problem, there will be a fix in the next Build update. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />
 
Catalina, I respect what you are saying and agree. I am shocked and pleasantly surprised that Akella were working on a more realistic map. However I must interject that all of the problems I have mentioned about POTC aside from Portugal were also problems in SeaDogs. So I cannot blame Disney entirely: if Akella had done their homework the first time around then the second build, later hijacked by Michael (Eisner), Mickey and Donald wouldn't have been so bad off because the ideas needed for a stellar pirate game would have already been in place. I also find it hard to believe that Disney had any hand whatsoever in the addition of Portugal: that was just sloppy `game-making`. As for all the bugs, errors and `dead-end` quests, that much I can blame `whole-heartedly` on Disney because of their rush to push it out the door in time for the movie's release. Game should have been called Pirates of Wonderland.

<img src="http://publish.hometown.aol.com/markquinn2k3/images/mqbw.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" />
 
Let's wait an output of game Sea Dogs II. Game will give us all answers to all questions

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We may all have to learn Russian to play it, tho<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Catalina You make a heroic feat!!! <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/onya.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":onya" border="0" alt="onya.gif" />
 
So, back to Pirates! perhaps?

Does anyone know the prison break I'm talking about? I think I even may have read about it on these forums, but I don't recall anything beyond what I've already written about it.
 
When you get captured and sent to prison, you have opportunities to "break out" - and once you do, you have to sneak away through the streets - either avoiding the guards who are searching for you, or sneaking up on them and knocking them on the head to avoid detection. Of course, when you do knock them out and they're lying there in the street, other guards could discover him and raise the alarm... Increasing the danger that you could be caught again...
 
The vids remind me a bit of a game of Frogger. Not sure why.

<img src="http://publish.hometown.aol.com/markquinn2k3/images/newquinn01.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" />
 
Catalina, you should read the previous posts better! <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":blah:" border="0" alt="tongue.gif" />

I know that you can escape by running through a village, but I was wondering if you also could escape by running through a tunnel system, since I know that there exists a historical record of pirates escaping from the tunnels of a prison fort!

Arr! <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/pirate2.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p:" border="0" alt="pirate2.gif" />
 
<!--QuoteBegin-eobet+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eobet)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Catalina, you should read the previous posts better! <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":blah:" border="0" alt="tongue.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blush.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":eek:ops" border="0" alt="blush.gif" />: Sorry, I am so busy it's amazing I can drop in here for a few minutes to participate... <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blush.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":eek:ops" border="0" alt="blush.gif" />: I hadn't heard or seen anything demonstrated about the tunnel break or I would have mentioned it. I was just responding to your (immediate) question that did not specify tunnels... <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":rolleyes:" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" /> Nevermind! <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/par-ty.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheers" border="0" alt="par-ty.gif" />
 
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