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National ship paint designs in the 17th century?

I

iamthejarha

Landlubber
I've noticed quite a few people request ship textures based on each nation's respective "standard" paint designs, the most famous of which is the Nelson Checker, of course. It got me interested, so I started Googling, but most of these standards seemed to start forming around the Napoleanic era (`late-18th`/`early-19th` century). Did national naval `ship-painting` standards exist to any extent in the late 17th century? I'd love to see conforming naval ships in POTC, but not if they didn't really come into existence until a century later, you know?
 
I have a distinct impression that everyone seems to really want this era rather than the one that "came with the game" - and it's been suggested that we should try progressive versions of PotC - so we can use the Napoleonic military skins and the nice ship skins &tc...
 
<!--`QuoteBegin-CatalinaThePirate`+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(CatalinaThePirate)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I have a distinct impression that everyone seems to really want this era rather than the one that "came with the game" - and it's been suggested that we should try progressive versions of PotC - so we can use the Napoleonic military skins and the nice ship skins &tc...[/quote]

I've noticed that, but in all honesty, I'm not one of them. I rather like the era it's in now. The ideas people are working on for a `Napoleonic-era` style are very cool, but not exactly what I'm looking for.

On a side note, have you ever found a reference to a historical galeoth? It's in the game, but I can't find a reference to it in actual history anywhere. The closest I've found is the <i>galliot</i>, a Dutch ship that looks strikingly similar. I'm hashing out an idea that would rework the entire way ships are set up in POTC (details to come in a later thread), so I've been doing research on each ship in the game, but the galeoth completely escapes me--it just doesn't seem to exist outside of POTC. Of course, the "pinnace" in the game doesn't match any description of a pinnace I've ever seen, either.

Well, back to the proverbial drawing board. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/bookish.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":mm" border="0" alt="bookish.gif" />
 
Well, in places in POTC it _is_ referred to as a galeot...so who knows.

I'm interested to hear how you plan on reworking things, as I have a few ideas there myself, but more on the skins side, i.e. to sever the close connection between skin and stats.
 
I like the era the game is currently in, too, iamthejarha... I mean, the uniforms of the Napoleonic era are nice, but <shrug> everyday wear would also be much different. If you think about it, fashion for "just plain folks" or for ordinary seamen is not quite correct for the era, either... Wanna start modeling changes for *that*? <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":rolleyes:" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" />

I think it's likely that the Galliot is the Galeoth in the game. I've always assumed it was somebody's spelling translation... But you're right about that pinnace. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":blah:" border="0" alt="tongue.gif" />
 
While I have some hope of eventually whistling <i>The Battle Cry of Freedom</i> from the cupola of USS <i>Monitor</i>*, I'm mostly a Golden Age of Piracy feller, corrupted at an early age by Sid Meier's Pirates! Gold.

But then, I don't really identify with either side of the Napoleonic Wars (A Whiff of Grapeshot having put paid to the `tri-words` that mattered more (to me) than the tri<i>color</i>).
{But I digress, and worse'n usual at that... <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="xD:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" /> }

*And note that Clutch Marauder, Duke Surak'nar, and others were/are working on `ACW-era` ships...
 
<!--`QuoteBegin-NathanKell`+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(NathanKell)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Well, in places in POTC it _is_ referred to as a galeot...so who knows.

I'm interested to hear how you plan on reworking things, as I have a few ideas there myself, but more on the skins side, i.e. to sever the close connection between skin and stats.[/quote]

<!--`QuoteBegin-CatalinaThePirate`+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(CatalinaThePirate)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I think it's likely that the Galliot is the Galeoth in the game. I've always assumed it was somebody's spelling translation... But you're right about that pinnace. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":blah:" border="0" alt="tongue.gif" /> [/quote]

I'm still writing up the post--it's a long one, heh. I'm going to start a new thread on it as soon as I finish my research and iron out the details in my own head. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/bookish.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":mm" border="0" alt="bookish.gif" /> Part of it does include renaming some of the ships in the game, like the galeoth and pinnace. More info will be forthcoming soon, of course. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/pirate2.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p:" border="0" alt="pirate2.gif" />

Nathan, most of what I'm envisioning deals more with the ships themselves: which ships are available to each nation (both types <i>and</i> models/textures), and a reworking of the stats. As far as separating skins from stats, it'd be worlds easier if the referenced textures weren't `hard-coded` into each ship's model. That's one thing I haven't found a way around.

I <i>did</i>, however, use the 'console' from your other thread to dynamically switch my ships. I'm using it to get a `screen-capture` of every ship in my game, but it has massive potential toward getting a shipyard "paint shop" into the game. That would only be really useful with more ship textures than are currently in the game, but it's definitely a step toward a future mod.
 
Hey iamthejarha I was thinking about having the ability to repaint your ship in the shipyard as I was reading you post and then you said so you beat me to it lol. That would make sense as if you were working for the brits in a letter of marque lets say, you wouldnt go sailing around in a pirate style painted ship wud ya!
 
Okay, I started a new thread about my various ideas, right here: <a href="http://forum.piratesahoy.net/ftopic2769.php" target="_blank">Rethinking ships in POTC: new project?</a>.
 
This is a good thread. I'm in the middle of apartment trouble what with going back to school and all, but when I am more readily available I'll scour what I have and come up with an historical paint scheme for the 17th century.

Concerning a "Napoleonic Mod" I've always been in favor of that... but I'm also very much in favor of expanding the 1690 date... perhaps even moving it back closer to 1600. I know I've been pushing the whole 1800 idea for a while, but if there is more of an interest to going back than forward... let me know, and I'll retool what I've been working on.

Regardting the Galeoth v. Galiot debate... they are the same. In the early modern period in English as with other Germanic languages, the "th" was pronounced many times like hard "t." Example, "nothing" would be pronounced as "`note-ing`." Regarding the rigging, a Galeoth and a Galiot are very much the same.

You are right about the pinnace. A Pinnace is a very small craft launched by a ship. If I had to call the ingame pinnace anything right now I would just call it a "ship." I haven't found anything that it matches yet, but I've looked a lot.
 
IMHO, the most interesting part of what happens in the Caribbean is between the Spanish and anyone else - but particularly the English - `mid-1500`'s on through the 1600's. Most of the rest of this stuff (Napoleonic, for example) is all EUROPEAN, to my way of thinking...

The Spanish Main has always been where the legendary pirates plied their trade... That's why I like the earlier era... English Sea Dogs, and Spanish galleons... <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/onya.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":onya" border="0" alt="onya.gif" />

I'm glad there are people interested in making the ships more like what they're supposed to be. I think it's rather muddled at the moment, and to straighten everything out will be a big job, but I for one will be most appreciative of any work anyone does to fix that!

More power to ya, iamthejarha! <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheeky" border="0" alt="icon_mrgreen1.gif" />
 
Hear hear Cat. If we are thinking of a full fledged mod we could make Conceicao Spanish, and Greenford Dutch (with a new name of course).

You are right. For a true Nepoleonic mod to work, Pirates of the Caribbean would have to become "Navies of the Mediterranean" or something. All European is right.
 
hmmm, interesting idea, `no-ones` considered putting the mod <i>back</i> in time before. that would definitely be interesting! the elizabethan era was soooo cool... and we could put some <i>really</i> `well-known` privateers in <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/happy.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="^_^" border="0" alt="happy.gif" />

(oh and btw pg conceição -> es concepción. i don't know any dutch though <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":?" border="0" alt="unsure.gif" /> )
 
I know that's Sailor Al's dream at least, a `galleon-age` POTC (hence his avatar).
And I'd like to see that too, actually; I always picked 1560 in P!G...
 
I have such a nice Drake skin to contribute, and I think jacksparrowjr was making the Golden Hind... <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/par-ty.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheers" border="0" alt="par-ty.gif" />
 
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