'New' Mod ideas+current Mod polishing.

Black Bart · Oct 3, 2006

<b>NOTE: STUFF BELOW IN THIS FIRST POST WAS AFTER PLAYING BUILD 12.1(FULL) - FOR LATEST AND FUTURE BUILDS MUCH OF IT WONT APPLY - SEE LATER POSTS FOR MORE</b>

I use the term 'new' losely - as a new member here some of the topics i'll be bringing up may have already been discussed somewhere; and if so please let me know <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

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First of i have been on these forums before, about two years ago, but have forgotten what avatar name i was using back then; if it comes back to me i'll mention it.

My Modding + Potc background is as follows:

I got the game origonaly on xbox a number of years ago and really loved what i found, even with all the mess up Akella felt over its realease as a tie-in to the movie with unfinished potential etc. Thats when i first came here and took part in some threads. It was also at this time i found out about the possibility of modding the PC version of the game, and this set my mind to one day get the PC game once i had a PC capable of running it. So now that has been done and i've spent the last week enjoying the fantastic Mod(v12.1 full) that all you guys have made for the game - awesome effort <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/me.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" :onya

" border="0" alt="me.gif" />

And now i have a mind to take part in the modding process and see if i can bring anything worthwhile to the table. I'm not a current coder(an oldschool 8bit basic dinosaur) but have been a longtime amateur game designer, mostly board games and rpgs, and have recently turned my attention to computer games with the aid of some ex-school mates.

I've been involved with the modding of the game Call To Power II(and helping get the source code released), mostly in helping design new features and minor documentation of that project.

But now i have some more time, and would really love to get involved with everyone on the POTC project.

<b>Mod ideas</b>

I'll start by saying i enjoy the realism of the pirate experience that PotC simulates, and this is where most of my ideas and suggestions will point towards; fanatsy has its place but the framework for PotC really lends itself to creating a belivable pirate world of the 15th and 16th century imho. I'll divide the following points into numbered sections, every title in Italics will be refering to the part of the game that will be titled, numbered and bolded.

<b>1.Realtime sailing mode</b>

I'm a mad fan of using the real-time 3D sailing engine to get around, last time i was posting here i would talk about this quite alot(it might jog some peoples memory of what i was called back then?).
At that time, with just the xbox version to play on, I had worked out that even though it seemed like it could be possible to do this, in reality the engine didnt quite work that way. Now i've tested the PC version and found the same thing, but i have a few ideas that may be possible work arounds.

Why would anyone want to sail from Oxbay to Isla Muelle in real time(or x3 etc with the speed controls)?

Good question, but my answer is simply because i find the sailing engine one of the things that draws me into this game so much - it helps make me feel like a real pirate in the caribbean, it makes the world the game simulates feel more real. Anyway we can improve this aspect of the game will make it all the richer a gaming experience imho.

And having the possibilty of sailing directly in 3D from port to port would keep the continuety of the experience.

The problem we have is that at current the 3D engine needs to load in sections for them to appear in the 3D view. I spent many, many hours testing this. You can sail from Oxbay for example, and head towards Redmond. I use my compass and a printed map to get a rough bearing then leave the ship to it. At this point i usualy go make a cup of tea, do a chore etc then check back to see if the wind has changed or whatever.

Now in the current model you could do this forever - i once spent 3 realtime hours sailing from Conceicao to Redmond, and it confused me as i saw no land or any ships within that time. As soon as i went into the map sailing screen i saw i had long sailed past Redmond - it just never showed up in the 3D enviroment. So you need to load into the map sailing screen to load in the detail for each Island to appear in the 3D sailing mode.

just for the record a 'normal' sailing session from one island next to another takes around 30mins in realtime(x1) - so this is the length of journey you would 'put up with'

One thing i've noticed is in the map sailing screen, whenever you approach an Island you get the "land Ahoy!" speech from one of your crew - at this point if you go into the 3D sailing mode it will also load the Island graphics. Now i'm wondering how the program keeps track of this, what part knows when to use the "land Ahoy!" speech, and if maybe this could be used while in the 3D sailing mode to trigger a quick switch to the map sailing screen and back into the 3D sailing mode - this would allow the Island graphics to load and keep most of the sailing within the 3D mode? Does anyone here have ideas and thoughts on this?

This of course would remain an option - you will still have access to the map sailing screen as normal, its just a matter of trying to make a full 3D sailing experience possible for the 'realism' freaks like me <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

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<i>Ship spawning</i>

I can see this code has been much improved with the modding - i get many more differnt ship encounters than i used to in the vanilla game, so thats cool <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

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Still in the 3D sailing mode this is limited quite badly. You only get a selection of ships when you first go into the 3D sailing mode, once those ships have either been destroyed or left behind you will never come across any new ships. This is a i suspect a harder challange than what i posted above. If the game only generates new ships in the map sailing mode, then i cant see an easy way to impliment changes here.

One thing we could look at is any code that handles what happens when a ship dissapears of your radar screen/over the horizon. If there is something that keeps track of this it might be possible to trigger some random spawnings of new ships while still in the 3D sailing mode?

<i>Weather transitions</i>

I notice we have a much better version of this with the modding work, and i think it might be possible to make it even better. At the moment you still get too many extreme changes of weather state i think. I know it is the caribbean, but i was wondering if these changes could be better defined?

what i'm wondering is would it be possible to adjust the weather changes within tighter parameters, so if you have a 15knot wind from the south the next change would be better related to that state, for example it might become a 10knot from the south west, rather than a 4knot from the north? that kind of thing, but always keep the chance of a complete change a possibility. It would be great(and make better sailing) to have a slightly more rounded weather model i think.

Would it be possible to also include the possibility of having your high winds(20knots+) and big seas develope into a proper storm, as in it could develope into the storm screen thing? All this is within the 3D sailing mode of course. My main aim is to try to make the whole sailing part more interesting and believable.

<i>Option to dump cargo</i>

I think your ships speed takes into account how loaded up it is with cargo, correct me if i'm wrong(as it will make this feature re-dundant). If so how about an option to dump your cargo/cannons to reduce the load and improve your speed? sometimes it might help you outrun those pesky pirates. This is a documented method that was used by desperate traders if it would make the difference, it might make the pirates go for the cargo instead. Anyway a lesser feature, but might be fun?

<b>2.Personal Items/treasure</b>

<i>random loot finds</i>

I love all the new swords! and i laughed out loud when i got my first item that improved one of my stats, i think its a fine idea but after a good 30hrs of playing i think all these things could do with a little adjustment, if not i'd be interested to know how to make those changes to my own game.

My problem is i feel that its too ealry a stage in the game for me to have so many great weapons for my crew. I have an Atwood f100 myself, and my crew of 6 have 2 Cardinals, 1 bosuns choice,2 Solingens and a Squall between them. I'm level 9 the rest are between lv 4 and 8 and all our weapons were found lying around in random pick up treasure. I think it might make these great items more valuable/special if they were harder to come by? For the better weapons, i'm thinking it would be unlikely you would find these just lying around - they are too good to be accidentaly dropped and forgotten about?

How about weapon shops? Often the Cargo Traders have weapons on the wall behind them, would it be possible to make them the sole resource for these great weapons? Is there anyway to differenciate the Cargo Traders personal item shopping lists be different from the normal traders(the ones around town or by the harbour) shopping lists?

Onto the itmes that add extra skills - I like it but it seems a shame that ALL items are the same. Is it possible to make it so they would be much rarer and much more valuable. So for example, you would still have normal diamonds,rubies,inca idols etc - 'non-magical' ones if you like, but also the much rarer items of the same that would give you these skill increases? They would then be much more valuable to the player when found, as you would know that the next emerald you found might not give you a skill increase.

my general impression is i find too many of the good items too often - it cheapens their value to some extent.

I'm not disrespecting any of the work that has been done so far - infact i absolutely love what has been acheived, still i think there are many things we can do to further improve and balance the game, to make it the best pirate crpg/sim available <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

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<b>3.Trade</b>

<i>Crew rations</i>

wow i now have to keep my crew supplied with food+rum - that is fantastic and adds much needed depth/realism to the gameplay. How about going one further? Scurvy - aye we all know it was part of life at sea so why not carry on this 'crew needs' mod and add fruit to the mix to prevent scurvy?
Ale - is it possible to use/change/add water or grog(watered down rum) to the list of cargos? Pirates and rum has a long tradition, but you cant survive on rum alone, you need your fluids in the hot temperatures of the caribbean!

Hows this small list look to you all:

1.Wheat - needed to keep crew alive(its food), lack of wheat means loss of crew over a period of time?
2.Ale/water/grog - needed to keep crew alive(its drink), lack of such means loss of crew over a period of time?
3.Rum - needed as currently used to keep the morale of your crew up.
4.Fruit - needed like rum to keep the crews morale up - losing your teeth and finger nails would get you down!

So we have four elements to keeping your crew alive and well at sea, 2 that directly effect the health of your crew and 2 that directly effect the morale. Does this seem an ok idea in extending this part of the mod?

<i>Cargo space</i>

I did a bit of digging and found that cwt stands for a hundredweight. 1 ton = 20 cwt is the conversion i think?
Anyway i like the added cost of buying ships and the added value of trade items to compansate. Still its possible to make a lot of money pretty quickly, probably too much on balance i think. One cargo run on even the startup ship(the Lugger) can net me a cool 20,000+ if i'm careful on what i choose and where i go to sell.

So it got me thinking about the cargo capacities of the various ships. I had a 30ft yacht quite a few years ago, a traditional style modern build of the Oysterman class. It weighed around 5ton and berthed 4 crew. It probably could have managed around 1 ton of cargo(not that it had a cargo area as such) along with the crew etc. My feeling is that the cargo allowence on the ships in PotC may be too generous, especially when taking into account the crew numbers. Anyway i'm not sure on this so if anyone has some ideas i think its an area we can look at to reduce the players abilty to make alot of money from game start.

It would be nice to extend the period where the player tries hard(and runs the gauntlet of pirates etc) to make the money they will need to progress up the tree of ship owning. Maybe re-evaluating the lower level ships stats would help this? cargo space vs speed might be a way to balance out the relative weakness and lower cargo of the smaller craft if we go this way?

<i>Trade Goods</i>

What are the limits on the amount of trade goods and can they be changed with modding? I think it would be good to change/add goods especialy in the 'illegal/smuggling' area. For example it always seemed a bit daft that things like paprika were illegal. So how about some new cargos for this area, or a different approach maybe. In fact i think all the current 'illegal' goods need de-legalising to make it all more sensible.

Slaves - they had slaves back then right, and many a pirate had been a slave before managing to escape. So how about having them as a cargo in the game, maybe even the mod that allows you to pick up crew from the sea could use this - these unlucky ex-pirates/sailors would become your new cargo of slaves, maybe the only way to get this valuable cargo?

I guess the main problem of what is an illegal good is that back then laws were pretty slack, and most stuff was legal. So if we went on a different approach we could look at some way of introducing a customs tax on goods sold through the official stores of a colony or town? To avoid the tax you go through the smugglers(and the risks involved).

I think this whole area can be balanced a bit more to avoid the player being able to amass such large sums of gold too quickly. Anyway i'll do a quick list of possible semi-illegal goods that could be added:

1.Slaves - picked up from ship wreckage/collected after raiding a fort? sold at either normal stores(for less money), or sold to smugglers(for more money+risk)

2.Weapons - traded between stores or to smugglers as above.

3.Medicines - as above

Do we want to stay away from narcotics?(probably i expect) - if not opium was a common but valuable drug of the period - it was used medicaly as well.

If we included these 4 i could see three of them(Slaves/Weapons/Opium) being much more realisitc 'illegal' goods in some ports?

<b>Ship modification</b>

I love the new tailorshop feature - being able to find the exact likeness for my character helps in the immersion. How about something simular for our ships? I know we have the ability to change sail colour, but what about maybe going in to the dock and asking for a repaint? The textures are already there so would it be possible to customise your ship this way - obviously keeping it all within the correct type of ship.

How about an ability to improve your ships performance(at great cost). Add more sail footage to increase speed, careening to improve the turning circle? stuff like that. They would be small(in effect) tweeks to squeeze that extra couple of knots etc - something to spend that horde of money on and personalise your ship more.

this is probably too much work but i find always having the same cabin no mater what ship a bit weird? Is it at all possible to change this?

<b>Controls</b>

One thing i miss on the PC version is the ability to rotate the camera view around my character when he is on land. on the xbox you could do this like you can move around your ship in the 3D sailing mode. It was just nice after a hard voyage to kick back in a tavern and rotate the camera to view the front of my chars face while i stood in front of the fire <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

" border="0" alt="smile.gif" /> not a biggie, but as it was possible in teh xbox version i think it must be possible to introduce that to the pc game - maybe using the mouse scroll wheel + direction keys to spin the camera?

Thats all for now - thanks for your patience in reading it andi look forward to any feedback <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/par-ty.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" :cheers

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Pieter Boelen · Oct 3, 2006

I understand you are using Build 12.1, right? We are currently working on finishing Build 13 which will add many more features. The latest available version is Beta 2, but apparently Beta 1 works better.

1. Realtime sailing mode
Interesting idea. I do believe that the "Land Ho" notification works based on the worldmap, which means it wouldn't work in 3D sailing mode. It might be worth checking out, but I don't think it'll work. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":?" border="0" alt="unsure.gif" />

2. Ship spawning
It might be possible to spawn ships while you are in 3D sailing mode. Talk of that has happened before and people did think it was possible. Nobody has worked on coding it in though.

3. Weather transitions
Might be possible. Not sure how though. I don't know how the weather transistions are called. I'd have to check the files... <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" :rolleyes:

" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" />

4. Option to dump cargo
That should be very possible. I know there is a dump cargo button somewhere already. The option you ask for might actually already be added to the Build 13 Beta version. Not sure though. I'd have to check.

5. Random loot finds
Major changes have been made to that in Build 13 and it will work much better now. Rare items will now indeed be much harder to find.

About weapon shops: The blacksmiths in Build 13 sell items. Not sure which kind of items anymore. They used to sell the same as regular traders, but that might have been changed now.

About the skill items: Making those changes is easy. You just need to edit initItems.c. If you make these changes, please do it in the Build 13 version, so that these changes can eventually be added to the modpack. initItems.c has had a complete rewrite for Build 13. We also had the idea of making the skillenhancing to only be added to items where it makes sense. So a diamond will not increase your navigation skill, but a sextant will.

6. Crew rations
I agree about that. We've had thoughts about that before and this is a mod that will probably be made for Build 14. It is possible to add new trade goods, yes.

7. Cargo space
You can easily change the values in ships_init.c

8. Trade Goods
These things can be changed reasonably easily and, in fact, have already been modded in Build 13. Somebody made some major changes to this as well, but I didn't add that mod because it wasn't finished. This might be something to look at for Build 14. I don't like slaves. If they are added, it should be with a toggle on it. And make it affect your reputation. And add the ability to hunt slavetraders to increase your reputation.

9. Ship modification
You can't change the paint job on the same ship. Game engine limitation. KBlack did make a mod for Build 14 in which you can improve your ship's performance. Different cabins for different ships is a mod that is already included in Build 13.

10. Controls
Agreed. But we can't add such a mod, I think. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

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Black Bart · Oct 3, 2006

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pieter Boelen @ Oct 3 2006, 04:50 PM) [snapback]165218[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'>
I understand you are using Build 12.1, right? We are currently working on finishing Build 13 which will add many more features. The latest available version is Beta 2, but apparently Beta 1 works better.</div>

Yes i'll give 12.1 another week(i'm enjoying my game!) and then switch to the latest version <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>1. Realtime sailing mode
Interesting idea. I do believe that the "Land Ho" notification works based on the worldmap, which means it wouldn't work in 3D sailing mode. It might be worth checking out, but I don't think it'll work. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":?" border="0" alt="unsure.gif" />

2. Ship spawning
It might be possible to spawn ships while you are in 3D sailing mode. Talk of that has happened before and people did think it was possible. Nobody has worked on coding it in though.</div>

I suspect a way around this could be applied to both these situations. I'm not sure what you can get at in the code though in terms of the modding process. Many of Call To Powers II limits we came up against was due to not having access to the source code.

I've noticed that in the 3D sailing mode it keeps track of objects distance to you all the time(well atleast all the forts/ships that are loaded into memory at that time), and any distance you travel in the 3D sailing mode is transfered directly to the map sailing mode when you enter it. What i probably need to test is if you sail back to where you've come from if the game still keeps that Island/ship info intact - even after your tens of thousands of meters away.

What i'm thinking is by keeping track of distance travelled it should be possible to set up a distance defined trigger that could autoload the map sailing mode screen(and the required Island) when you get close to the trigger point?

Along these lines it should also be possible to use for when a ship leaves your radar screen(bad name for that little round area map/wind direction hud). At that point, as it does keep track of the distance; we could use a spawn trigger to randomly generate new ships in the general direction of travel(as opposed to behind where you wont ever encounter them).

I think i just find the map sailing screen a little too 'arcadey' - it's quick and easy but takes away from the sailing(still i'm not thinking of getting rid of it - just making the option of real sailing more realistic).
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>
3. Weather transitions
Might be possible. Not sure how though. I don't know how the weather transistions are called. I'd have to check the files... <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" :rolleyes:

" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" /></div>

So no ones done work on these files already? strange - maybe its just a diference in the PC vs Xbox version of the game then, as in the PC version weather is much more realistic and dynamic, on xbox its much more static.
Ok well what i would be looking at once the relevent files have been located, would be to seed the process of when it swithces. There would be a higher chance of weather similar to what went before, but always with a chance for a complete change(rather than the apparantly completely random selection used at present).
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>
4. Option to dump cargo
That should be very possible. I know there is a dump cargo button somewhere already. The option you ask for might actually already be added to the Build 13 Beta version. Not sure though. I'd have to check.

5. Random loot finds
Major changes have been made to that in Build 13 and it will work much better now. Rare items will now indeed be much harder to find.

About weapon shops: The blacksmiths in Build 13 sell items. Not sure which kind of items anymore. They used to sell the same as regular traders, but that might have been changed now.</div>

sounds good <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

" border="0" alt="smile.gif" /> i'll definately check out build 13 asap.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>
About the skill items: Making those changes is easy. You just need to edit initItems.c. If you make these changes, please do it in the Build 13 version, so that these changes can eventually be added to the modpack. initItems.c has had a complete rewrite for Build 13. We also had the idea of making the skillenhancing to only be added to items where it makes sense. So a diamond will not increase your navigation skill, but a sextant will.
</div>

sounds excellent, still do you think its possible to make only a % of an item type have special abilities. I'm talking more about special 'cursed/blessed' types - not examples like the sextant, or have you got rid of all 'magical' type items that improve skills? I'll go have a look in those files and see what i can make out.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>
6. Crew rations
I agree about that. We've had thoughts about that before and this is a mod that will probably be made for Build 14. It is possible to add new trade goods, yes.</div>

Great! i'm just wondering where is best to go to find all those types of discusions? dont worry i'll spend the next
few weeks trawling the threads and get myself more into the loop.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>
7. Cargo space
You can easily change the values in ships_init.c</div>

thanks for the pointer, working on 20 cwt = 1ton i guess the values might not be too inacurate, i still worry that crew numbers should effect available cargo space more, especialy on the smaller ships. Anyway this is one for me to do more research on as i'm not sure of the real numbers.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>
8. Trade Goods
These things can be changed reasonably easily and, in fact, have already been modded in Build 13. Somebody made some major changes to this as well, but I didn't add that mod because it wasn't finished. This might be something to look at for Build 14. I don't like slaves. If they are added, it should be with a toggle on it. And make it affect your reputation. And add the ability to hunt slavetraders to increase your reputation.</div>

Toggle on slaves(and most additions) is good. Is it the slaves themselves you dont like or the fact of slavery? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />
I was just looking around for some more realistic cargos that could be made 'illegal', and slavery was a sad part of plantation life for many caribbean people <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

" border="0" alt="sad.gif" /> I really like your idea of the rep drop and slave trader hunting <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/bounce.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":b:" border="0" alt="bounce.gif" />

The main points of this suggestion(plus weapon and opium trade goods) was to add some gritty detail to the seedier side of pirate life, and re-think the whole 'illegal' goods thing. Any other suggestions on things we can use in place of paprika and cinnamon are much needed imho!
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>
9. Ship modification
You can't change the paint job on the same ship. Game engine limitation. KBlack did make a mod for Build 14 in which you can improve your ship's performance. Different cabins for different ships is a mod that is already included in Build 13.</div>

Again excellent! - it seems many of us have the same aims for bringing more realism to the game. I suppose a complete change of paint job was a rare undertaking anyway, you would just stick with the ship you liked best. hmmm on that thought would it be possible to view the actual skin of the ship you will be buying(yes i do buy ships sometimes!) - rather than just the default graphic? just so you can get a better idea of what the ship looks like. Its not a big issue, and probably more work than its worth, but maybe the guys who have worked on this might know of an easy way?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>
10. Controls
Agreed. But we can't add such a mod, I think. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

" border="0" alt="sad.gif" />
</div>

well someone(i'll get to know names as i get more familiar with all the modders) had added the mod thing that fixed the annoying camera spin you would get when walking past doorways/entrances. It was most noticable when walking up the stairs in the taverns. I wonder if something can be done with this code?

Anyway thanks for your reply - i'll get myself build 13 soon and will come back and review what my impressions are. I've started to look at some files and will post a few questions when they arise.

And finaly do you think modding PotC will stay worthwhile now that Age of Pirates is out - is that potentialy a better game to mod to get the ultimate pirate game were all looking for? Or even is it possible that the PotC mod can be transfered to the newer game?

thanks for taking the time over my post
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/par-ty.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" :cheers

" border="0" alt="par-ty.gif" />

Pieter Boelen · Oct 4, 2006

1. Might be possible. Not sure. I don't know aybody who would want to make such a mod though.

2. Is probably possible. Would be nice for Build 14.

3. There were no weather transistions in the original game at all. Those were modded in. It can be turned off with the WEATHER_UPDATE_AT_SEA toggle in BuildSettings.h. The following code in AIShip.c makes the weather transistions happen:<div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'>// NK --> 04-09-16
//gets the current time in seconds (roughly!) since loaded sea.
int GetSeaTime()
{
    ref pchar = GetMainCharacter();
    if(!CheckAttribute(pchar,"seatime")) return 0;
    return sti(pchar.seatime);
}
// 04-09-21
int AddSeaTimeToCurrent()
{
    ref pchar = GetMainCharacter();
    int st = GetSeaTime();
    int minutes = 0;
    if(!CheckAttribute(pchar,"lastupdateseatime")) pchar.lastupdateseatime = 0;
    if(sti(pchar.lastupdateseatime) + 1 <= st/60)
    {
        int oldhour = GetHour();
        minutes = TIMESCALAR_SEA * (st/60 - sti(pchar.lastupdateseatime));
        AddTimeToCurrent(0, minutes);
        pchar.lastupdateseatime = (st/60);
        if(oldhour != GetHour() && WEATHER_UPDATE_AT_SEA)
        {
            sNewExecuteLayer = SEA_EXECUTE;
            sNewRealizeLayer = SEA_REALIZE;
            Whr_UpdateWeather(false);
        }
    }
    return minutes;
}
// NK <--</div>
It might be possible to make the transistions smoother by changing the Whr_UpdateWeather() function, but it most certainly will not be easy to do.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>do you think its possible to make only a % of an item type have special abilities.</div>Sure. Just make a copy of the initItems entry and remove the skill modifier. You can also change the rarity values. We haven't removed the "magical" items, no. But we might eventually when we can replace them with other items that do make sense.

10. Perhaps it is possible, but I don't know how. The following code in characters_events.c changes the camera:
<div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'>    case "camdetector":
        // CCC -->
        if(LOC_CAMERA)
        {
            locAttr = "locators.camera." + locator;
            if(CheckAttribute(loc, locAttr) != 0)
            {
                x = MakeFloat(loc.(locAttr).x);
                y = MakeFloat(loc.(locAttr).y);
                z = MakeFloat(loc.(locAttr).z);
                locCameraToPos(x, y, z, false);
            }
        }
        else { locCameraFollow(); }
        // CCC <--
    break;</div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>And finaly do you think modding PotC will stay worthwhile now that Age of Pirates is out - is that potentialy a better game to mod to get the ultimate pirate game were all looking for? Or even is it possible that the PotC mod can be transfered to the newer game?</div>I do think it's worthwhile, yes. It would be nice if all our modding work could be transferred to AoP, but the code is so different that I don't think this is possible. I also believe that PotC is much easier to mod than AoP. In any case, I stick to modding PotC. I have no real interest in AoP. It seems to me a shame to abandon all our current modding work to start all over again with AoP. I'd rather continue our current work. Just about all features in AoP can be modded into PotC. Many of them already have been modded in. The only MAIN difference between AoP and PotC are the graphics, I think. And I don't like the Japanese anime style of AoP <i>AT ALL</i>.

Anyway: I'm sure there will be people to mod AoP as well. So in the end, there'd be two pirate games which should both be good. And people can simply play the one they like. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dunno.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" :shrug

" border="0" alt="dunno.gif" />

Black Bart · Oct 4, 2006

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pieter Boelen @ Oct 4 2006, 10:30 AM) [snapback]165395[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'>
1. Might be possible. Not sure. I don't know aybody who would want to make such a mod though.</div>

i know, probably just me - but if 3D sailing can be made more interesting with the other features mentioned i suspect any salty sea-dog worth their salt would enjoy it <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/keith.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" :keith

" border="0" alt="keith.gif" />

And thanks for bothering to dish out some of that code - I've just kept to looking over the text files so far, but have that sinking feeling the code will be where i end up <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />

And i agree about sticking to mod PotC over AoP. Starforce remnents in official patches was enough to keep me well away from it, which is sad for Akella as i suspect there are many more that feel the same <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

" border="0" alt="sad.gif" />
I was just trying to see if all of you current modders were ready to jump ship, but i can tell many are here to stay so i have no reservations about jumping in to help(well maybe hinder! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

" border="0" alt="wink.gif" /> ) with PotC modding.

Well i've just got me the pre-build 13(plus update) so will have a go at installing it and giving her a run.

zorglub · Oct 12, 2006

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pieter Boelen @ Oct 4 2006, 06:30 AM) [snapback]165395[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>do you think its possible to make only a % of an item type have special abilities.</div>
Sure. Just make a copy of the initItems entry and remove the skill modifier. You can also change the rarity values. We haven't removed the "magical" items, no. But we might eventually when we can replace them with other items that do make sense.
</div>

I like the idea, I think that if it isn't added in Build 13 I will add it myself in my game!

To make the add even more interesting, we could remove the lines in the trade item interface that explain what the object do ('+1 grapling' for exemple) , so that you can't guess if this object really has got some powers or if the trader is tricking you. Of course you would still be able to see that in your item menu... That would make those items harder to find, and less common. And you will be thinking twice before buying one!
A little like the 'rag-dolls' in Tradewinds2, a game that a friend just show me.

Black Bart · Oct 13, 2006

sounds good <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

I like the idea that throughout the game, all the items you find may be a little different from one another - in the same way it seems to work for ships at present. I also would like the 'magical' items to be much rarer and when found much more expensive. I like your idea of the 'hidden'(stat wise) magical item.........along those lines how does this sound:

Games has both hidden and non hidden magical items.

When buying from a merchant stall you could see the particualr benifit of that item, and it would be very expensive.(imaginary discussion with seller: "here sir look what i have for you, an ancient treasure blessed with magic - i've been told those who own it become great swordsmen")

So when buying from a merchant it is sold as a bona fide magical item, with the cost to prove it, and all details out in the open.

When finding items in random pickups, then the items power would remain hidden(in that when you look in the inventory it wont say +1 melee) and its value would be that of a standard item for its type. maybe the player would notice his stat increase when he was carrying it, and keep hold of it. Or maybe he wouldn't, and sell it unwitingly to a trader for the normal rate?

something like that?

looking at that technicaly - you would need some sort of switch to assign to the item to tell when it was a known or unknown magic item. Maybe once in the hands of a trader all magic items properties become known and their value increases? So the trader becomes the switch.

The balance aspect in that is that all methods possible to stop the player getting vast amounts of money are in the long run good options for the gameplay. So you can buy magical items at inflated prices, but can only sell 'free' magical items(ones you pick up) at normal rates, and once in the traders hands it becomes a non-hidden magical item and the price goes up(he hs a good eye for such things). obviously you can sell a magical item back to the vendor, but that system is already in place so you dont make money of it.

zorglub · Oct 13, 2006

Well, yes, it is another good possibility... Exactly the oposit of what I was thinking thought.
In mine, you could have some good surprise : 'Dear me! But that item had magical powers! Good that I've bought it!' and in yours, bad ones : 'ARRR! No! Don't tell me it was a magical item, and that I've stupidly sold it to that fat merchant for nothing!!! Heaven! I want it back! Give me that!!!'

And it's certainly much more complicate to write it down! In my option, basically you just had to make a few Ctrl+C and Ctrl+V in the initItems as said Pieter Boellen, and then modify one line in the itemstrade.c file.

this one :
describeStr += LanguageConvertString(idLngFile,arItm.describe) + GetItemBonuses(arItm.id); // NK
by this one :
describeStr += LanguageConvertString(idLngFile,arItm.describe));// + GetItemBonuses(arItm.id); // NK

Very easy, as you can see... Your option is much more elaborated, but well we can discuss about it anyway.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>
The balance aspect in that is that all methods possible to stop the player getting vast amounts of money are in the long run good options for the gameplay. So you can buy magical items at inflated prices, but can only sell 'free' magical items(ones you pick up) at normal rates, and once in the traders hands it becomes a non-hidden magical item and the price goes up(he hs a good eye for such things). obviously you can sell a magical item back to the vendor, but that system is already in place so you dont make money of it.
</div>

Agree, that would be a good part.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>
When buying from a merchant stall you could see the particualr benifit of that item, and it would be very expensive.(imaginary discussion with seller: "here sir look what i have for you, an ancient treasure blessed with magic - i've been told those who own it become great swordsmen")
</div>

Well in the latest build beta some random walking guy wants to sell you one or two incredible weapons (excellent quality for exemple). They could say that and sell you real magical items too, at very expensive price... In addition to the usual merchant I mean.

Another option for the lucky items : after playing a while against some dice players, they could run out of money and bet their lucky ring, bronze cross or indian idol. Or they could try to loose a cursed item against you at first to low down you luck skill, in order to have more chance to win next... Or in the middle of a game the guy could say : 'Damn I've lost so much gold! Here, (take a bronze cross out of his pocket and kiss it three time) Jesus, Mary, help me!' and he gets this perticular item and gain +1 luck...

-----been thinking a while-------

In fact, the best idea could be to mix the two idea.

~Some merchants doesn't recognise magical items, and sell both magical and useless to the same average price. -> my idea.

~Others sell the useless very cheap, and the magical very high, and tells you which is which. -> your idea.

~Others random walking traders sell both magical or useless items to the same high price, telling you there are all magical. In that case, they will be a % of 'chance' of being swindlered.

~Some people can just tell you if the object has got powers or not (some people wanted to add Tia Dalma in a swamp, no?... That would make her usefull)

I'm not too shure that those ideas are compatible with the current state of the trade interface. It would require to analyse each special items (magical or not) seperatly, and for now the computer would just mix your items and the trader's. That means some addtional coding is needed...

Pieter Boelen · Oct 14, 2006

These are some pretty interesting ideas. However, all different items are shown as different items. So if you want to add hidden magical, not hidden magical and non-magical items to the game, you'd have to add three versions of each item. And you wouldn't actually see a difference between the hidden magical and non-magical items, but they WOULD show up as different items in the inventory, which could be confusing.

Black Bart · Oct 14, 2006

hmmm yes it probably would be too fiddly to be worth the pay-off. Still the concept of having different types of items(of the same type) i think is one worth looking at - with the aim of keeping the really good/usefull items rare+expensive, without giving the player access to huge amounts of money too often.

For example as it currently stands i think the player finds too many great items(specificaly swords) too frequently.

I think "In fact, the best idea could be to mix the two idea." is the ideal - but we may not be able to achieve it. Still its all worth dwelling on, down the line we may work out a way to best implement it for a later build <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

<b>NEW CONCEPT: WEAPON SHOPS</b> - for a later build

I've been enjoying finding weapons laying around in random loot, but imho i feel i find great swords too often. This may be of course because the modder of those great swords wants people to appriciate his good work which is completely understandable <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />
Anyway i've been thinking along these lines and had come up with a possible solution to the 'great sword random find' issue.

Use the town stores as exclusive dealers in fine arms - they already have the background graphics to stimulate the mind(the weapons mounted on the wall behind some of them) and if we could seperate the town stores personal items from the outdoor vendors that would be the way to approach it i think.

This would also allow those great new weapons to have a showcase earlier in the game that the player could see from game start and aim to save up for - they would become a real treat, something the player would have to work towards obtaining, and feel like a true reward when the player manages to save enough to afford one.

As it stands it just feels too easy to get these really great items. eg in my current game at level 4 i found the great Atwood F100 in a random pickup, its probably the best blade in the game(well i think so anyway) and now i have nothing to look forward to in terms of getting better personal weapons for the rest of the game?

Also i dont find it particularily realistic you would find such quality weapons laying around, well maybe 1 time in 1000, but definately not as often as you do.

The aim would be to make the best personal items something extra special to have.

In terms of implimentation within the game, they could also be tied in to a level requirement if people thought that would work best? Kind of like other parts of the game(like ships), so you would always have a newer/better/ favoured weapon to work towards? you could 'grey them out' like in the ships mod, so the player knows they exist? or not as is seen fit.

The main thing would be to completely change the way personal items are dealt with by town stores, so they are completely seperated from the normal personal item trade goods(this would avoid confusion of those other goods and help keep seperate and exclusive the best weapons in the town stores). It would need to be called something different - like "luxery weapon items"? or some such.

And it would include not only all the new swords, but i'd think about adding the armour and best pistols/muskets as well. Keep them out of the normal trader stall items, make them all more specialised and exclusive, and if ever available in random loot, it should be at much,much lower chance than we currently have.

Peoples thoughts on this?

<b>MORE SHOPS IN GENERAL</b> - for a later build

Is it pirate_kk that was working on having all the doorways lead to somewhere(rather than many being always locked s in the game now). If its not than i apologise for the confusion. Still i understand their were some issues with the modd - not being able to find your way back to where you'd come from properly etc?

Along with the above Weapon Shop idea(really just changing the stores function towards personal items), i think we could do with more 'other' shops. Like the excellent apothacary+tailors for example <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" :yes

" border="0" alt="yes.gif" />

The longterm objective would be to create many more different shops+services for the player to visit+use. Some towns would have them other would not. In a way it would have the same aim as pirate_kk's 'all doors leading somewhere' mod, but aim to create more personalised places to visit.

<b>A)</b> Your feeling sick(have a disease etc) so visit the apothacary(exists) or maybe the doctors(doesnt exist yet)? If we decide to also have Doctor shops then look at ways to differenciate the services Apothacaries+Doctors provide, or maybe just extend the options of the Apothacary as we already have Doctor officers(and their unique skills are being worked on anyway)?

<b>B)</b> You want to visit your family home to see your wife+kids? maybe some of the non-used buildings could become buyable property(they did some great mods for Morrowind like this)? So you would also need an agents shop to sell those properties? Your family home would be a place where you can store things(like your ship, but safer - well it cant get sunk anyway....although it could get burgled? A Place where your spouse lives(you can get married right?). A man trying to gain notice as a repspectable member of society, maybe even with his sights set on a governorship(like Henry Morgan); would require property before being considered for these type of positions? I wonder if we could introduce a heirachical structure of respectable rank here - thinking along the lines of sids origonal Pirates and when you retired you had achieved a certain rank depending on your wealth+fame - Tavern Keeper, Garrison Commander, Governor etc. Tie it all in with the new land ownership thing?

<b>C)</b> What about a Bank? somewhere safe to keep your loot(no pirate likes it when his ship sinks, along with all his gold+plunder!or maybe his homes security just isnt enough?) If the Bank is introduced in each town, then it could also become the place where property is bought and sold. But mainly it provides very safe locations for storing your wealth.(Again Morrowind had a great mod like this.)

<b>D)</b> Bare Knuckle Boxing/betting shop - A place to gamble(and/or take part?) against two fighters using fists until one cant continue anymore. I envisiage a small tavern type location with the centre area cleared where the fight takes place(could be a simple line on the floor with a fighter on either side, and npcs positioned around the outside looking in) - you place you bet on which fighter you think will win, or for larger wins enter the tournament yourself and see if you can beat the current champ and win a large prize? something like that?

<b>E)</b> We have a brothel(which i've yet to find.....curses <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

" border="0" alt="wink.gif" /> ) good for the authentic atmosphere if not so good for the soul?

Hmm ok we can see the life of a pirate wasn't often what you could call pious - and i'm thinking we could also develope that whole aspect of the game. We have churches already - they simply are vessels for donations and improving your current reputation. We could develope the church/pious aspect much more - and it would give those players not comfortable with the more piratey pleasures(brothels/gambling etc) a place to express themselves. I can see it being tied in with part of what i was talking about in the owning your own houses in a town - so it would be a path to respectability rather than a path to just riches+fame, that being a pirate offers.

We could realy develope the whole reputaion/rank, pious/pirate aspects to provide very diferent playing experiences and goals in the game - give the player much more variety <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

So look at developing the churches aspect and influence in the game.

<b>F)</b> Fortune teller/voodoo priestess - a place to spend gold trying to see your future, sort of like if you are stuck and dont know where to go or what to do next; you could gain clues to your next steps....kinda like an in game help function that costs you gold to access?
It could also work as a place to try to get magical spells put on items(work like the few items we already have) or curses removed from items/people, very expensive to do and might not always work?

<b>G)</b> Guilds - i was thinking specificaly a thieves/assasins type guild, mainly to develope further the whole sneaks weapons we have in the game(poison blades/toxic fume bombs etc) - to gain access to these items or take quests that involve more thief like skills, it could be nice to have a shadowy guild you could try to join?

Of course the guild thing could be expaded to encompass many interesting areas, a thief-type one would probably be quite popular?

I think we can come up with many more decent ideas - ways to flesh out the towns more and give the player more to see and do. I know it would be much more work than we probably need, but as long term goals, especialy with all the new Islands we've got, i think it could add some great atmosphere?

Black Bart · Oct 18, 2006

<i>Back to the Future</i> - For a later build.

Well back to talking about 3D anyway - some say it is the future of gaming?

<b>3D sailing mode: Port-to-Port mod</b>

NOTE: i use the term "mini-map" when talking about the navigation map sailing screen - its shorter to type.

There have been a few ideas posted on this subject and i think i'll put them all down here so we can have them in one place.

<i>Possible solutions to having a continueous 3D sailing mode which the current game cant do:</i>

<i>Realisations:</i>

1. We have realised that your ships location while in the 3D mode IS mapped and recorded, so when you go into the mini-map sailing mode you appear where you should.

2. We have realised that loading into the mini-map mode is essential for loading in Island+ship graphics/models for use in the 3D sailing mode.

3. We have realised that ALL locations of the Islands must be being stored somewhere, probably in an x,y location format, most likely i would think in a very specific set of co-ordinates to cover the whole geographic landscape of the Island as displayed in the mini-map mode.

Im going to hazard a guess that its these co-ordinates that help define when you get the "land Ahoy!" message as you approach an island in the mini-map mode. There is a zone around each island where this is activated, so it has to know/record your location in relation to this.

the reason i'm thinking these co-ordinates will be quite complex, to cover the geographic footprint of the islands; is that most of the islands are not round, and you dont always get the "land Ahoy!" at exactly the same distance from each island. They are unique shapes and the "land Ahoy!" happens in relation to the island shape and your distance from that part of it.

<i>Solutions:</i>

1. Find a way to get access to where the game keeps it co-ordinates for the islands

2. Once we have that we have a few options available:

a) We can calculate distances from players position to all the Islands, much like a super magnification spyglass. And at a certain distance from an Island we can load into("Land Ahoy!") and out of the mini-map - to load in the island+local ships graphics.

b) Put a flag around the distance that the "land Ahoy!" message is activated that would load you into the mini-map("Land Ahoy!") and out into 3D mode again.

3. really scratch our heads to work out sailing times(ration usage etc) to make sure it correlates as close as possible to what happens if you use the mini-map sailing mode to travel around.

There it looks quite simple really..........in theory! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/no.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" :no

" border="0" alt="no.gif" />

<b>Enabling new ship encounters while in 3D sailing mode</b>

Once the ships on your "radar" are left behind you, you will not encounter anymore while in 3D sailing mode. When i used to post under Child of Thor(i think my first avatar name here.) i probably mentioned this quite a bit as i used to sail everywhere in 3D all the time on the xbox. It was during those long hours i first discovered about the limits of sailing this way(well that you couldn't really do it for the whole duration of the journey).

It was quite lonely sailing this way, but i prefered it to the arcade like mini-map that would zip you around the map(and into other ships/storms before you could adjust your course!). If i was getting bored of the sailing i would load up the mini-map and take my pick of the prey.

<i>What we know:</i>

1. The only ships in the 3D sailing mode are those local to your position when you enter 3D sailing.

2. No new ships are generated untill you go into mini-map mode

3. Distances between the player and other ships/land is recorded(thus the spyglass)

<i>Solutions:</i>

Probably a few possible ways to get the right effect. The easiest i'm thinking is:

1. find the distance to the edge of the radar when fully zoomed out(greatest area coverage)

2. As ships leave the area behind your direction of travel have random ships spawn along your heading in front of you.

At this point i dont think we know how or where the game is storing the ships currently or what it does with them when you've left them long behind.

e.g. if you sail away from a ship for say ten minutes(realtime) after it has left your 'radar', then turn around and try to find it again - can you?

UPDATE:21/10/06 - I've tested this now, ships DO remain on the 3D map untill you load into another screen(mini-map/dock at land) when new ships are generated. I sailed away from a ship for around ten mins, then went back to find it - i did find it.

What is the limit on the amount of ships the game can handle while in 3D sailing mode? I've seen quite a few at once, maybe around 9? but knowing the limit will be important and how the game 'purges' unwanted ships.

I think purging all ships that leave the radars scope would be too harsh - its quite easy to get a change of wind and then you'll notice they have vanished. So we would need a range further out to make it more believable, before losing those ships behind you. Also sometimes an escort ship can get left way behind, like when it does something dumb like sail into a bay. So that would need to be thought about.

Anyway the aim would be to create ships you would encounter while on your way to your next destination - i'm not thinking of massive water high-ways, just a random chance that you would atleast meet SOME ships while sailing around in 3D continuous sailing mode.

<b>Weather</b>

British people love talking about the weather - its become a national pastime and i wont disapoint here <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

I love the weather effects in PotC - it might be the thing that helps draw me into the game the most? An important factor at least.

<i>On Land</i>

And has anyone else noticed that effects on land run concurrently with whats happening at sea? If its a filthy black clouded thunder storm on land, it will be the same if you set sail, unless the hourly weather change happens at that point. I'm 90% certain this is the case. The game models weather on a global scale rather than depending on which part of the game your in(land or sea).

This is interesting for a number of reasons, the most important being it may be possible to get a reading of the weather while on land. I've seen talk about this. I'm sure many people get frustrated when they try to set sail only to find themsleves sailing, teeth gritted+eyes half closed, into a plus 20 knot gale and going backwards!

It happens to us all. Now if weather is global it "should" be quite an easy thing to just import the compass/wind direction gauge into the land section. It shouldn't be much harder to adapt that to become a more realisitic tool, say a barometer? that the player can buy? Now before you set sail you can get a weather reading, and decide to head back to the pub or not.

Worth investigation.

<i>At sea</i>

The second part i'm interested in is in relation to the port-to-port sailing mod idea. As it stands we atleast get weather changes on the game hour while in-game. They are random though, and in a port-to-port type mod would be frustrating and odd.

Caribbean weather does fluctuate, but probably not as much as it does in modded PotC, while definately more than it did in the stock game(ie never!).

So after trying lots of 3D sailing i got to think we could make the weather changes more logical, which would enhance that experience.

Method:

1. Store the current weather state under a seperate title like 'Oldweather' or something

2. on the weather change every hour, get that old weather state and change the next weather state around the parameters of the old weather state. So instead of going from +20 sw to +3 ne(as it does currently), you would get more gradual shifts over each game hour. The possibility of extreme + total change will still need to happen(because it just can sometimes), but be the exception to the norm.

Thing is when you do go sailing(in real life), the weather isnt static nor is it completely random, it tends to follow a pattern for a period of time, shifts around the intitial starting conditions, fluctuates here, ebbs a little there, maybe even drops all of a sudden before picking up a few moments later. I think it could be possible to better model that with the approach above.

The bit i'd really like to add to this would be the storm conditions(most of my favourite sailing has been in nasty storms - i'm one of those freaks that has never suffered sea-sickness, and unless its a good blustery day and the boat can max out top speed, i feel disapointed coming ashore).

The way it would fit in the above model would be to have a random chance of a +20 knot wind(maybe combined with stormy looking seas? as i know they can change along with the wind in the game) developing into the storm screen.
The transition into the storm screen would be the loading of it, when the right conditions have been triggerd. Now the problem would be what happens after. As it stands in the game you ride the storm out for a period of time(taking ship damage), then the music changes and you can activate the mini-map sailing mode to signal storm over....but you remain in stormy looking seas untill going into the mini-map or docking with the port(yes it is odd that you can get +30foot waves in a shelterd bay??).
So what do we do here - to fit in with our model? I guess we could just load into+out of mini-map mode again - that would set up the weather cycle to carry on as normal in 3D sailing mode - not very elegant, but functional?

So all this would happen while out on the sea in the 3D sailing mode. Sometimes you'd get a storm, sometimes it would pass you by - that kind of thing. Also it would bring in a little worry when the gauge is reading +30 knots for wind, as it does in real life!
At the moment i'm always extremely happy to see the strongest winds in 3D sailingmode in PotC - especially if its going in my direction. This isnt normal behaviour <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/no.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" :no

" border="0" alt="no.gif" />

That about concludes this section on the 3D sailing mode, please feel free to throw your ideas into the pot <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/poet.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":hmm" border="0" alt="poet.gif" />

One final important point this Port-to-Port mod would not be to replace the mini-map mode. You can still use the mini-map mode to sail around as normal(it is quicker after all), this is just to make the 3D sailing part as functional as the mini-map mode - so people like me who like the time spent sailing in the game can actualy play the game this way if the want <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

Black Bart · Oct 19, 2006

continuing to throw ideas out there: - For a later build.

I'll just keep chucking things out as they occur to me, some might be useful some not - thats upto the rest of you to decide upon <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

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<b>Health - Doctors/Apothacry etc</b>

I just want to say this bit is inspired by those great new 'medicinal' items with the latin names - the unmarked murky looking bottles of something nasty, they are great and i love finding them.

We now have a Doctor class of Officer, and i've discussed maybe having Doctors on land locations also. We also have the Apothacry. The later is the only part that has a functional effect in the game currently:

1. you can buy tinctures(i guess healing potions/antidotes etc?)
2. you can have your health restored
3. you can have your health/stats boosted

I think those are the facilities?

So what i'm looking at is what function would a Doctor perform(either a ships officer doctor or a land based one) that would be different from the Apothacrys service?

Thats a bit tricky really. We have bandages and a cautarisation kit that i'm guessing will be used in conjunction with some kind of Doctors skill(in fact where will this Doctor skill be displayed, is it going to use a current stat(like luck for example)?).

So i'm looking at the Apothacry and ships Doctor and it seems the Apothacry is probably better to visit - it does all the Doctor does and a bit more. Of course the advantage of your officer Doctor is you can take him around with you - so you always have access to one, unlike the apothacry.

Now i'm trying to put things in the context of the time period:

An Apothacry was kind of like an extension of the wise-woman(or witch) that had been dominant in most villages and towns for hundreds(maybe thousands) of years. The Apothacry was like a bridge between this older superstition led method of health care and the more modern science of Physician(and Doctors). The Apothacry was the remnant of an old herbal tradtion; it had knowledge about plants and thier healing properties, but it also carried that element of the supernatural, so while prescibing you a dose of peppermint tea for your upset stomache(a real remedy) it might also offer 'cats spit' to keep away evil spirits from a new born child?

The Doctor was whole new kettle of fish - they came from a much more recent tradition that technology had made available. They believe in the physical condition of an illness - definately not its spiritual sides that the older tradtions follow. It must have been hard being a Doctor in the Caribbean - not only did you have a generaly superstitious people to deal with(Davy Jones Locker/women at sea bad luck etc), but you also were in conflict with these older traditions that still were part of everyday life. I suspect the Doctor would have looked down their noses a little at the herbalists and apothacrys, defiantely at the vodoo and witch doctor tradition!

Anyway back to the game. So these thoughts have got me to thinking we need to differenciate the services of the Apothacry and Doctor - to reflect these different approaches. They both deal with the same thing, but in a different way.

That got me to thinking about how the game does have two types of ways it effects your health. you have regular loss of health and you have poisoning(e.g.when hit by a zombie monkey).

So we have a very real physical loss of health - a gash in the arm that needs stitching up, a bullet in the shoulder etc - stuff that i would rather have a doctor around to look at(and hope it was a good doctor!)

Then you have the poison side - a bit more mysterious, something that the right concoction of herbs might help against(antidote)? Something i'd go to an Apothacry for(and hope they knew their stuff!)

So i'm starting to see you could come up with a system where both types of healing could have its speciality - to make each a bit more unique in what they bring to the player.

<i>Illness</i>

I like the idea of expanding what kind of illness the player can contract - at the moment you just have 'poisoned'. Part of one of my ideas from the first post, was to introduce a more comprehensive type of ration system that would include having to have fruit to stop crew getting scurvy.

So thats atleast one more 'illness' we can have - scurvy, that would work in the 'posioned' category. cool.
What else did people suffer from in this pirate era?

Gout? dysyntry? - i'm not an expert on the periods diseases so i run out of suggestions quite quick <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

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Still i'm happy that we have so far:

posion(illness) - antidote(cure)
scurvy(illness) - fruit(cure)

and we can work on a few more if people like the idea.

What i would look to doing is maybe making the player illnesses the speciality of the Apothacry - its not 100% as of course a Doctor would know some of the cures also, but in terms of a game mechanic i think it works to divide it up this way?

<i>Doctors</i>

Which would leave the good Doctor with being responsible for physical wounds. Using the bandage+cautarisation items he would be the guy to sort you out after a fight and restore you to full health.

I'm in part thinking i like the idea of bloodloss after a fight. How i see that working is say if you or a party member have suffered a nasty wound(down to half your health?), then you would continue to lose 1 point of health untill you'd seen a doctor who using his bandages and cautarisation kit would stop the blood loss. It would work a little like when being posioned? The only worry i have with such a system is what happens if the player cant get to a doctorin time/has no access to one? I guess that would lead to the next bit and talk about potions.

What about potions? - well i'm undecided, the way i look at it all games have had a 'magic potion' to use - its part of gaming tradition, and for good reason - you want people to have fun in your game, and magic potions/extra lives etc help.

In the way were looking at the system outlined above i would see the 'magic potion' becoming the realm of the Apothacry - it really is just a collection of herbs+ingrediants with purported healing properties(something the good Doctor might disagree on!). So healing potions should imho stay. But maybe there is a better way to express their less than scientific credentials?

How about having magic potions have a random healing effect within a given range for the potion type? small potions might heal you 20points, but then again that particualr preperation was poorly done and you might only get 5 health healed when you swig it down, or if your very unlucky maybe nothing at all? same thing for the bigger potion bottle?

And in the case of the player who cant get to a Doctor easily maybe you can have a chance of a magic potion also stopping blood loss? So if injured badly and loseing blood, with no chance to get to a Doctor - raid your potion supply and start drinking tham down - on one level they will increase your health(keeping you alive longer untill a doctor can be found, or you get lucky) - on another they might stop your blood loss?

I like the idea of that - but it would need plenty of play testing to see how such a system would work out for PotC.

The nice thing about it would be combined with a finished and working Doctor class - it would create a fun mix of healing options for the player.

zorglub · Oct 19, 2006

My... too much idea there, I haven't enough time to think to each one ... I will maybe post some idea laters, when I will be less busy...

I just wanted to add one thing about the merchants : I've always wished some streat merchants could sell you other things that items, I mean some merchandises like frutes for exemple. (or fish, if this merchandise was existing...) That could be usefull for your make-your-food-ration idea, and that would be really usefull in case your reputation doesn't allow you to buy food supplies at the store. And that would be realistic, I mean the town inhabitants are more lucky to be looking for some food in the market than for a sword or a grapling+1 ring. (I'm shure a certain captain named Barbossa would love to buy an apple to a streat merchant...)

Another thing. For now, I believe there is only two different time periods in town : night and day. It could be good to have special market days in the week, and mass the Sunday. The towns would look more dynamic, wouldn't them?

About doctors & apothecaries : I think native healers shouldn't be forgotten... In those climats they were more usefull then europeans at this time. And africans had lot of influence too. Of course both of them hadn't the same social status than european doctors, but that doesn't mean people didn't believe in them - especialy in portuguese or spanish island I would say. Even an important bresilian 'senhor da engenho' was more lucky to ask the african healer for real help, and keep the european doctor to be looked as a distinguished person.

Black Bart · Oct 20, 2006

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(a simple virtual sailor @ Oct 19 2006, 07:59 PM) [snapback]168208[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'>
My... too much idea there, I haven't enough time to think to each one ... I will maybe post some idea laters, when I will be less busy...

I just wanted to add one thing about the merchants : I've always wished some streat merchants could sell you other things that items, I mean some merchandises like frutes for exemple. (or fish, if this merchandise was existing...) That could be usefull for your make-your-food-ration idea, and that would be really usefull in case your reputation doesn't allow you to buy food supplies at the store. And that would be realistic, I mean the town inhabitants are more lucky to be looking for some food in the market than for a sword or a grapling+1 ring. (I'm shure a certain captain named Barbossa would love to buy an apple to a streat merchant...)</div>

Actualy in the new betas and hopefuly for build13 release you do get roaming sellers in towns that offer special items(things like 'excellent' quality elite blades(Cardinals Guard/Atwood f100 etc)) and also some that sell standard items - so the feature is there, but it doesnt include 'cargo' items.

And yes i do get carried away when i have my design/ideas hat on(its my job!). Still dont be put of from joining in - i really believe we have quite a lot left we could do to create a really vibrant, living+breathing detailed caribbean-pirate sim. The more ideas the better imho <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(a simple virtual sailor @ Oct 19 2006, 07:59 PM) [snapback]168208[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'>
Another thing. For now, I believe there is only two different time periods in town : night and day. It could be good to have special market days in the week, and mass the Sunday. The towns would look more dynamic, wouldn't them?

About doctors & apothecaries : I think native healers shouldn't be forgotten... In those climats they were more usefull then europeans at this time. And africans had lot of influence too. Of course both of them hadn't the same social status than european doctors, but that doesn't mean people didn't believe in them - especialy in portuguese or spanish island I would say. Even an important bresilian 'senhor da engenho' was more lucky to ask the african healer for real help, and keep the european doctor to be looked as a distinguished person.
</div>

I like the idea of special 'market days' or general festivals - stuff like that helps build a believable gaming world and a fun distraction for the player <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

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As for Night and Day - atleast graphicaly there are stages to the progression of time. Its not a smooth a transition as say in a game like Morrowind(where you can follow the smooth riseing+setting of the sun). I think time is actualy noted by the game though. As in it knows when its 12:00pm, 11:50am etc.

Sometimes when you read the log update on the top left of the screen you will see a time displayed, it might be after you've bought items or slept in the tavern? i cant quite remember - but i'm pretty sure time is tracked in a traditional method.

Still the graphical depiction of the time of day does jump from one sky background to another - and as the graphics are so beautifull anyway, it doesnt really bother me. It certainly doesnt effect gameplay anyway.

Keep thinking on these things - i post mainly to stimulate the imagination over what we might be able to get out of PotC, so the more people take part the more likely we will continue to improve upon the already great work of past and current modders.

Black Bart · Oct 21, 2006

<b>Officers</b> - for later build

I know Pieter and others have some great ideas on how to expand this aspect of the game <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

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And i like the new 'Carpenter' ,'Tough' and 'Doctor' class of Officer. What has occured to me is that are we stuck with the stats we currently have in game - and not able to add(+display) more?

I was thinking about this in relation to the 'Doctor' in particular as we dont have a 'medic' type skill? And looking at most of the Doctor officers i've recruited it appears we are using 'luck' as the main attribute of the Doctors skills, which is the most logical - if a little worrying!

Player: "Doctor! i've lost a finger - help"
Doctor: "Are you feeling lucky punk?"
Player: "I had hoped YOU were feeling lucky doc? why is your hand shaking so much!?"

<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

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Anyway i know this is an area the modders are keen to work on, so i'm not worried about it. Mostly i'm interested in if anyone has thought of ways of adding+displaying new stats if any were needed for an Officers job? And more specificaly how is the Doctor going to work?

Pieter Boelen · Oct 21, 2006

I don't know if adding new skills is possible. Perhaps it is possible, but I don't know how. The easiest way of making the doctors work is through special abilties or, better, through a dialog file that gives access to the doctor's abilities. So then the question arises: What SHOULD the doctor be able to do?

Black Bart · Oct 21, 2006

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pieter Boelen @ Oct 21 2006, 11:20 AM) [snapback]168365[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'>
I don't know if adding new skills is possible. Perhaps it is possible, but I don't know how. The easiest way of making the doctors work is through special abilties or, better, through a dialog file that gives access to the doctor's abilities. So then the question arises: What SHOULD the doctor be able to do?
</div>

The dialog option sounds good <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

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I threw out a few suggestions for the Doctors abilities at the end of post#12 further up this thread - might be a place to start the discusion? Basically i was looking for a way to diferenciate Doctors abilities, in a meaningful way, from those of the Apothacry(i'm quite keen to see the Apothacry spread through the game - be available in more locations etc, as with various new shops+services etc).

Black Bart · Oct 22, 2006

<b>More New Shops</b> -All below For later builds

I've seen this mentioned:

<i>Tatoo shop</i>

Like the idea, like the odd tatoo i see on char models, but think its a lot of extra work modeling wise? If i'm correct it would require a whole new model for each tatoo(thats how i think it works in PotC?). Still for shop variety it would be nice.

<i>House Decorators</i>

As most shops can be based around the new Apothacry+Tailor shops(as the base), and if we can add player homes(cant see why not?) - then it could be nice to have a way to change the interior look of your home. Lookingover what a great job was done on the Apothacry we know it is atleast possible to create new interior looks. I'm thinking that it would probably have to work as a complete makeover - and as such you could have a selection of styles to chose from ranging from the very basic(and cheap) to the grand, govenor style(very expensive) - something along those lines?

<b>New Items</b>

What could you use to get a reading on land of what the weather is doing? This is in relation to the possibility that weather state remains the same on land and sea at any one time.

<i>Weather prediction</i>
A Barometer is the traditional instrument for getting a weather forcast, but it wont tell you what direction the wind is blowing. So we need some kind of 'instrument' that a player could use on land to help decide if its worth setting sail or not. sugestions? I'm thinking it could also adopt the rather fun effect of the spyglass mod; the better the quality(+the more expensive), the more accurate the reading?

<i>About Armour?</i>

How does it work in the game? at the moment we have three types of plate-armour i think, of differing quality and expense? I'm thinking about expanding this at some point to more types + bring in leather-type armours, with a view to adding this to the new 'stealth' aspect of the game. I'm wondering how flexible the armour model used is - is it easy to impliment and/or change? I understand its been quite difficult to show the armour in the external view, maybe its been impossible to do as the times i've worn armour i've never 'seen' it on my chars?

Doober · Oct 22, 2006

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Black Bart @ Oct 22 2006, 05:46 PM) [snapback]168505[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'>
<b>More New Shops</b> -All below For later builds

I've seen this mentioned:

<i>Tatoo shop</i>

Like the idea, like the odd tatoo i see on char models, but think its a lot of extra work modeling wise? If i'm correct it would require a whole new model for each tatoo(thats how i think it works in PotC?). Still for shop variety it would be nice.</div>

There is a tatoo shop of sorts. It is the opium den in Redmond.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>

<i>House Decorators</i>

As most shops can be based around the new Apothacry+Tailor shops(as the base), and if we can add player homes(cant see why not?) - then it could be nice to have a way to change the interior look of your home. Lookingover what a great job was done on the Apothacry we know it is atleast possible to create new interior looks. I'm thinking that it would probably have to work as a complete makeover - and as such you could have a selection of styles to chose from ranging from the very basic(and cheap) to the grand, govenor style(very expensive) - something along those lines?</div>

LOL! Interior designers in 17th century caribbean, that would be pretty funny. I can imagine that would take a ton of work to do though.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>
<b>New Items</b>

What could you use to get a reading on land of what the weather is doing? This is in relation to the possibility that weather state remains the same on land and sea at any one time.

<i>Weather prediction</i>
A Barometer is the traditional instrument for getting a weather forcast, but it wont tell you what direction the wind is blowing. So we need some kind of 'instrument' that a player could use on land to help decide if its worth setting sail or not. sugestions? I'm thinking it could also adopt the rather fun effect of the spyglass mod; the better the quality(+the more expensive), the more accurate the reading?

<i>About Armour?</i>

How does it work in the game? at the moment we have three types of plate-armour i think, of differing quality and expense? I'm thinking about expanding this at some point to more types + bring in leather-type armours, with a view to adding this to the new 'stealth' aspect of the game. I'm wondering how flexible the armour model used is - is it easy to impliment and/or change? I understand its been quite difficult to show the armour in the external view, maybe its been impossible to do as the times i've worn armour i've never 'seen' it on my chars?
</div>

I've never even thought about what the weather is upon setting sail, I've always just gone to sea and then switched to world map mode. I think it could be a useful mod if weather and wind affected the worldmap, but I don't know if thats possible or not.

Regarding armor, any character that is shown wearing armor has it equipped. You can equip it if you buy or find a piece too. If the character you are using has an armored skin, it will show as you having the armor on. Most of the characters don't have armord skin alternates, so even though you get the benefit, you can't see it on your character.

Black Bart · Oct 23, 2006

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Doober @ Oct 22 2006, 10:57 PM) [snapback]168506[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'>

There is a tatoo shop of sorts. It is the opium den in Redmond.

</div>

opium den? - is this part of the 'brothel mod'? next to its entry in the buildsettings.h file it always has a zero(0) with no comments on what it does or how to activate it? any suggestions on what to do to be able to see this mod - not that i'm a person that hangs around places like that or anything <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

" border="0" alt="wink.gif" /> lol but the designer in me likes to see the mods in action <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Doober @ Oct 22 2006, 10:57 PM) [snapback]168506[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'>

LOL! Interior designers in 17th century caribbean, that would be pretty funny. I can imagine that would take a ton of work to do though.

</div>

Well i was just taken by the complete new interior for the Apothacry shop in greenford, and it confirmed to me that it was indeed possible to change a buildings interior. The way i'm looking at this part of a potential mod is that it would work in conjuction with giving the player a chance to live and build upon a 'respectable' life if they so wished.

So as a Pirate you have the option of saving up for that really great but expensive ship that took your fancy(or if your lucky to come across it at sea take it for free), and also that fantastic and beutifuly made sword in the blacksmith shop(that you wouldnt find laying around - its too valuable). Then after a while you might decide to spend time in the brothel/opium den, get into a brawl, spend your gold on gambling - and carry on as normal.

Still another side that could be developed in the game is the side would see the player trading, buying property, going to church, meeting the govenors daughter, getting married etc - the 'respectable mod' if you like <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

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So giving the player stuff to spend their money on that builds that kind of life is a nice option.

In terms of designing new interiors for the possible new homes you could buy - yes it will be a lot of work,still it is possible and the aim with this whole exercise is to provide players with more options and things to do than we curently have <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Doober @ Oct 22 2006, 10:57 PM) [snapback]168506[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'>

I've never even thought about what the weather is upon setting sail, I've always just gone to sea and then switched to world map mode. I think it could be a useful mod if weather and wind affected the worldmap, but I don't know if thats possible or not.

Regarding armor, any character that is shown wearing armor has it equipped. You can equip it if you buy or find a piece too. If the character you are using has an armored skin, it will show as you having the armor on. Most of the characters don't have armord skin alternates, so even though you get the benefit, you can't see it on your character.
</div>

Well the weather prediction thing was just something that came up after the umpteenth time i go to sea to find a +20 knot wind blowind my ship backwards or atleast making it very difficult to sail out of harbour. If you only ever use the mini-map/navigation sailing mode it doesnt/wont effect you <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

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It is really part of the port-to-port sailing mod that a few people have said they would like to see(some people, like me, tend to sail eveywhere in the 3D sailing mode(as much as they can) - really we do!).

Ok i understand the Armour thing now - if you use a char model with armour already on it, then when you buy armour its like your wearing it(and get the benefits). If you put armour on a char model that doesnt have it shown, you wont ever see it, but you will get the effects of it. Got it - thanks for the clarification, i had thought it might be 'broken' in my game. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

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'New' Mod ideas+current Mod polishing.

Corsair

Navigation Officer

Corsair

Navigation Officer

Corsair

Privateer

Corsair

Privateer

Navigation Officer

Corsair

Corsair

Corsair

Privateer

Corsair

Corsair

Navigation Officer

Corsair

Corsair

Buccaneer

Corsair