• New Horizons on Maelstrom
    Maelstrom New Horizons


    Visit our website www.piratehorizons.com to quickly find download links for the newest versions of our New Horizons mods Beyond New Horizons and Maelstrom New Horizons!

Solved Period Relations and Towns

Pieter Boelen

Pieter Boelen

Navigation Officer
Administrator
Storm Modder
Hearts of Oak Donator
So Build 14 Alpha 9.5 contains a Periods mod, but at the moment neither the nation relations nor which nation owns which towns are really period-correct.
Coding this in shouldn't be too hard, but before it can be coded in, we need to have a list of the correct relations and which towns they owned.

As an example, here is Bartolomeu's list for Portugal:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Spanish Main (1600-1680)
Spain : Hostil / France : Friendly / England : Friendly / Holland : Hostil or Neutral / Pirate : Hostil

Golden Age (1680-1740)
Spain : Neutral / France : Friendly / England : Friendly / Holland : Neutral / Pirate : Hostil

Colonial Powers (1740-1770)
Spain : Hostil / France : Hostil / England : Friendly / Holland : Friendly / Pirate : Hostil

Revolutions (1770-1790)
Spain : Friendly / France : Hostil / England : Friendly / Holland : Friendly / Pirate : Hostil

Corsican (1790-1820)
Spain : Hostil / France : Hostil / England : Friendly / Holland : Friendly / Pirate : Hostil<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Can our various forum members who have proper historical knowledge please contribute here so we can make the modpack more historically correct?
 
It is more easy to do it per storyline rather than per period. In those days nation relations changed almost every 5 years.
 
I'd like to have some per-Period defaults, but you can always overrule those with the storyline files if required.
 
the per-Period would be useful if later you have the possibility of playing the game without choosing a main quest <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheeky" border="0" alt="icon_mrgreen1.gif" />
 
Does NOBODY have any input on this? Nothing can be done without the information.
No actual modding experience required; just looking up and posting the information in this thread. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":rolleyes:" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" />
 
Hi Pieter,

Just want to say that what you guys are doing with this mod is amazing, I’ve been watching your progress from a distance and I’m amazed what you’ve all done.

I’m useless at modding work but with regards to your request for realistic relations between nations, maybe I can help you out with the history a bit.

Below is a list of wars between the various nations for the first time period (1500 – 1599) and which nation was allied to who. As you can see, nations changed sides and broke allegiances pretty much all the time.

Please bear in mind that The Netherlands were mostly controlled by Spain until the beginning of the Eighty Years War in 1568 so I have lumped Spain and The Netherlands together for this first time period:
<b>
1500: Italian War of 1499 - 1504</b>
France Vs. Spain & The Netherlands

<b>1508: The War of The League of Cambrai 1508 – 1516</b>
France, Spain & The Netherlands Allies (1508 – 1510)
France Vs. Spain, The Netherlands & England (1511 – 1516)

<b>1521: Italian War of 1521 – 1526</b>
France Vs. Spain, The Netherlands & England

<b>1526: War of The League of Cognac 1526 - 1530</b>
Spain & The Netherlands Vs. France & England

<b>1536: Italian War of 1536 – 1538</b>
France Vs. Spain & The Netherlands
<b>
1542: Italian War of 1542 – 1546</b>
France Vs. Spain, The Netherlands & England

<b>1551: Italian War of 1551 – 1559</b>
France Vs. Spain, The Netherlands & England
<b>
1568: Eighty Years War 1568 – 1648 (Twelve Years Truce 1609 – 1621)</b>
The Netherlands Vs Spain

<b>1580: Iberian Union 1580 – 1640</b>
Spain and Portugal agreed to this union in 1580 and Portugal was effectively ruled by Spain until Portuguese independence in 1640

<b>1585: Anglo-Spanish War 1585 – 1604</b>
Spain & Portugal Vs. England & The Netherlands

Sorry for the information overload and I’m not sure how you could actually apply any of this to the mod, but you did ask for it. I also apologize if I’ve missed anything out.

If this is helpful I will carry on researching for the next time period, or anything else I can help you with researching. If not then I will shutup <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":rolleyes:" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" />
 
Right now I am about to do my exam for History. And it is all about the Netherlands in the Golden and Silver Age. I will post some wars from that period in a while.
 
Let's make things simple. I've made an Excel-file in which you can add the nation relations and nations owning which towns.
I already filled in the original game's values, Bartolomeu's Portugal relations and some of the storyline-required modifications.
All you need to do is to open it and make your adjustments. Nice and easy, no? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheeky" border="0" alt="icon_mrgreen1.gif" />
 
Did you want us to just take the average relation of a nation for each period? i.e. in the time period I highlighted above, France was at war with Spain 7 times and was only allied with them once, so I guess France would be Hostile to Spain and vice versa.

In the same vain, if a nation had no wars with another nation in that time period they would be neutral and if they were allies more than at war they would be friendly, is this correct? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dunno.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":shrug" border="0" alt="dunno.gif" />
 
Indeed. Since the nation relations changed so frequently, taking the average is probably best. As long as it somewhat resembles historical realism, that's fine.
And we have to consider gameplay value too; too many/few nations at war with each other in any period is just boring.
Just like having Spain own ALL the towns isn't right either.
 
I agree, if you give me a couple of days I will come up with something. I will also list all the historical conflicts in each era on the spreadsheet so you can check if you agree with me. You may also be able to reference them in a later version of the mod I guess, in an in-game log or something <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />
 
I'm not sure if I personally have time to study it in-depth; checking the historical realism is best left to the people who have more knowledge about it. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheeky" border="0" alt="icon_mrgreen1.gif" />
 
Hi Pieter,

Sorry it's taken so long, I've been away for a couple of days, but here is the information you requested.

View attachment Relations_and_Towns.zip

I've listed all the conflicts in each period and taken the average relation for each nation. I've based relations on length of time each nation was allied or at war with another nation and adjusted them accordingly.

I've also updated the nations owning towns to be historicly accurate. It may not be very intresting for the first period, i.e. Spain owns most of the towns, but it is accurate to the time. I guess you could always bend the history books a bit <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

If you need any more research doing, just let me know.
 
That's brilliant! Thank you very much. I suppose for gameplay purposes, we should always have at least one town owned by each of the nations.
Do you happen to know the alternate nation town names by any chance? I imagine Speightstown wasn't called that when owned by Portugal.
We can change the town names based o the period; that's already done with Port Royale, which is called Santiago Vega when owned by the Spanish.

As for the nation relations, I would propose to have England and the USA at war in "Revolutions" to simulate the formation of the USA.
But then have them be friendly in "The Corsican" so they can team up against Napoleon.
On the other hand, maybe we could add some quest to MAKE them team up, since they wouldn't do so on their own. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":rolleyes:" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" />
 
No problem, I'm glad to help where I can.

Of course I'll help out with Town names as well, the only problem I can see, as with all history, is that it is more complicated than it seems. In the first period, I listed Spain owning nearly all the islands, but in reality, Spain only claimed soverenty of the islands because Christopher Columbus discovered them on his way to the New World and took them in the name of Spain. There were actually no spainish settlements on many of the islands and were inhabited by native people until much later. I guess it depends on how historicly accurate you actually want to be. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

Sorry for the short history lesson lol <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="xD:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" /> , I'll do my best for you and re-post the updated database in a couple of days.

The idea of having a quest to ally England and the USA sounds really good. Will they side with the French or will they side with the English, the whole balance of power in the Caribbean could depend on it <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/bounce.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":b:" border="0" alt="bounce.gif" />
 
Thanks very much. I wonder what to do with towns that simply don't EXIST in the earlier periods.
Try and replace them with nothing to create an uninhabited island? Should be possible, but certainly not easy.
 
<!--quoteo(post=323694:date=May 30 2009, 11:40 AM:name=Pieter Boelen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pieter Boelen @ May 30 2009, 11:40 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=323694"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Thanks very much. I wonder what to do with towns that simply don't EXIST in the earlier periods.
Try and replace them with nothing to create an uninhabited island? Should be possible, but certainly not easy.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Or lock the towns from the ports and inland.
 
Just disable you from getting into them? Wouldn't that be annoying? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":?" border="0" alt="unsure.gif" />
 
Sure; just disabling some reloads would indeed be simple. Good one. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":yes" border="0" alt="yes.gif" />
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top