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Pinnace50gun

C

Captain Hawk

Landlubber
Storm Modder
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/hi.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":gday" border="0" alt="hi.gif" />
Now traders had this problem with pirates If you put large guns on your ship to fight pirates
there was no room for cargo also big guns and crew cuts profit. Usually they made ships look like
warships etc to fool pirates. With Pinnace50gun you can try to do same in potc. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheeky" border="0" alt="icon_mrgreen1.gif" />
Normal pinnace has 22 12lbs guns = 264 lbs firepower. 50 4lbsguns are only 200lbs =weaker than normal
Pinnace, ok with 4lbs gun you can fire more often but i think it is no more than normal Pinnace can do.
It is not yet ready some works remains but i have uploadet on ftp fleut of war34 gun.As normal Fleut
has 6lbs cannon 34gun fleut only 4lbs guns about same firepower. so can sail with it and see if you can fool the pirates. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />
As 50 gun ship in1690 was Ship of Line class Lets see if we can fool the pirates. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/bounce.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":b:" border="0" alt="bounce.gif" /> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/bounce.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":b:" border="0" alt="bounce.gif" />


<img src="http://images16.fotki.com/v284/free/9c282/8/839234/3156687/Pinnace50gun-vi.jpg" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />
Bye CapHawk <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/par-ty.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheers" border="0" alt="par-ty.gif" /> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/type_1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":nk" border="0" alt="type_1.gif" /> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/buds.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":drunk" border="0" alt="buds.gif" />
 
Very interesting, and an example of those ships that fooled the pirates were the white-waller frigates. They weren't actually frigates, they were normal trade ships with a very small number of real guns and a load of painted on gun ports, so that for example a ship that looked like it had 44-60 guns actually had 12-20! When i first heard of them i burst out laughing my a** off, but then thought it was a really clever trick, since a ship with its gunports closed was nearly water tight, the painted on gun ports looked very much like real ones. Some were still used until the 1920s.
P.S: I haven't seen that flag in ages.
 
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/hi.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":gday" border="0" alt="hi.gif" />
Update to fooling pirates
I was sailing in mapmode near oxbay with my 50gun pinnace when pirates hit me. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/urgh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":urgh" border="0" alt="urgh.gif" />
it was one pinnace more powerfull ship than my weak one + two class2 corvettes. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/w00t.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":woot" border="0" alt="w00t.gif" />
when i saw them come after me in line i thought "im done for" no way they are fooled. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/piratesing.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":shock" border="0" alt="piratesing.gif" />
But then they turned tail and run away. heh looks like fooling is working Ok. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/razz.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":razz" border="0" alt="razz.gif" />
Bye CapHawk <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/type_1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":nk" border="0" alt="type_1.gif" /> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/par-ty.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheers" border="0" alt="par-ty.gif" /> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/keith.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":keith" border="0" alt="keith.gif" />
<img src="http://images16.fotki.com/v285/free/8fd96/8/839234/3156687/fooledpirates-vi.jpg" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />
 
then again, they tend to do that for no reason. i sailed out of oxbay with a light frigate 2, and all it took was one broadside and the whole french squadron and two pirate ships[all of which were supperior to my ship, the pirates being 2 frigates, that was 1 battleship and 4 frigates] all turned tail and sailed under full sail in the opposite direction. all because of my inferior light frigate 2.
 
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/hi.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":gday" border="0" alt="hi.gif" />
I have uploaded on ftp White-Waller frigate <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/bounce.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":b:" border="0" alt="bounce.gif" /> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/bounce.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":b:" border="0" alt="bounce.gif" />
I think it fools pirates you see near islands better. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheeky" border="0" alt="icon_mrgreen1.gif" />
But also pirates can use it to fool merchants as it looks more powerfull than
it really is. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/danse1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":dance" border="0" alt="danse1.gif" /> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/duel_pa.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":ixi" border="0" alt="duel_pa.gif" />
Bye CapHawk <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/type_1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":nk" border="0" alt="type_1.gif" /> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/par-ty.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheers" border="0" alt="par-ty.gif" /> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/buds.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":drunk" border="0" alt="buds.gif" />
<img src="http://www.pix8.net/pro/pic/22671f80ce/806942.jpg" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />
 
i think that the idea of 50 guns on a trading ship is bad. manly because you don't have the crew! think about it. if you had 50 guns thats 5 men a gun and that makes 250 men right there. then you have catrage boys. ships doc. boarding parties. regular sailors. the lot. thats 400-500 men on a little trading ship :p and then with 500 men and 50 guns you got to think about the cargo! and if you get hit below the water line.... your toast with all the wieght :p anyways i think more painted gunports would be cool. but not 50 real guns. thats just crazy <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ohmy.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":eek:" border="0" alt="ohmy.gif" /> !!! and i would not want to have to face a 500 crewed 50 gun pirate ship just captured and full of happy pirates returning to port.... anyways painted i support! real hope to god no.
 
<!--quoteo(post=141149:date=Mar 4 2006, 05:00 AM:name=HellAngel_666)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(HellAngel_666 @ Mar 4 2006, 05:00 AM) [snapback]141149[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
i think that the idea of 50 guns on a trading ship is bad. manly because you don't have the crew! think about it. if you had 50 guns thats 5 men a gun and that makes 250 men right there. then you have catrage boys. ships doc. boarding parties. regular sailors. the lot. thats 400-500 men on a little trading ship :p and then with 500 men and 50 guns you got to think about the cargo! and if you get hit below the water line.... your toast with all the wieght :p anyways i think more painted gunports would be cool. but not 50 real guns. thats just crazy <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ohmy.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":eek:" border="0" alt="ohmy.gif" /> !!! and i would not want to have to face a 500 crewed 50 gun pirate ship just captured and full of happy pirates returning to port.... anyways painted i support! real hope to god no.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
RL pirates can see if ship has 50 cannonports in POTC they can not. so you need 50 guns.
normal pinnace has 22 guns 12 lbs = 265lbs firepower 50 guns 4 ibs = 200lbs firepower less than normal
pinnace has. pinnace has 300 men 4lbsgun maybe 3 men to gun BUT MAIN IDEA IS NOT TO USE
GUNS BUT FOOL PIRATES TO TURN TAIL AND RUN. not to fight with 50 guns.
If pirates use it they have no manpower problem. but the try to fool merchantman to
surrender easily as ship looks more powerfuii than it really is. idea is to FOOL not to fight.
ps in RL you do not need to man both sides at same time as you usually fight with one side only.
Bye CapHawk. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/par-ty.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheers" border="0" alt="par-ty.gif" /> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" /> in potc you can make it as real as potc allows no more.+ merchantmen do not
board etc they run and shoot only for defence. with 300 crew you can man 50 4lbs if you need to +
in potc you can do it with 60 man or with 1 man if you change ship init file.
 
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/hi.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":gday" border="0" alt="hi.gif" />
I think that in potc movie gun crew only worked on one side of ship and
run to other side guns when it was needed.? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheeky" border="0" alt="icon_mrgreen1.gif" />
White-waller frigate do not work so well with those pirate that you meet in map-mode. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/piratesing.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":shock" border="0" alt="piratesing.gif" />
Last time i had many pirateship after me not good thing with weak ship. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/w00t.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":woot" border="0" alt="w00t.gif" />
As last measure i had to board one pirate + one other surrended i think white waller helpet a little. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheeky" border="0" alt="icon_mrgreen1.gif" />
and i was able to flee. and save myself. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />
Bye CapHawk <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/type_1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":nk" border="0" alt="type_1.gif" /> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/par-ty.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheers" border="0" alt="par-ty.gif" />
 
50-gunner or not, the ship is beautiful.

In fact, pinnaces was designed by Dutch as warships thought to protect fleuts, and they were used as merchants because of good properties. As an example of pinnace i wrote here one:
In Danmark-Norwegian navy, pinnace "Norske Lowe" launched about 1643, length (to bowsprit) 40 m, width 10 m, draught 5 m, displacement about 1000 tons, crew 400 men, 18 cannons 32lbs, 12 cannons 24lbs, 10 cannons 12lbs and some smaller guns (source: Stefan Gulas, "Sailships"). It was one of two largest warships in that navy and was often confused with galleon.

I think one could even create war pinnace with 50 heavier guns (up to 18lbs, I think).

pirate_kk
 
<!--quoteo(post=141157:date=Mar 4 2006, 01:57 PM:name=pirate_kk)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(pirate_kk @ Mar 4 2006, 01:57 PM) [snapback]141157[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
50-gunner or not, the ship is beautiful.

In fact, pinnaces was designed by Dutch as warships thought to protect fleuts, and they were used as merchants because of good properties. As an example of pinnace i wrote here one:
In Danmark-Norwegian navy, pinnace "Norske Lowe" launched about 1643, length (to bowsprit) 40 m, width 10 m, draught 5 m, displacement about 1000 tons, crew 400 men, 18 cannons 32lbs, 12 cannons 24lbs, 10 cannons 12lbs and some smaller guns (source: Stefan Gulas, "Sailships"). It was one of two largest warships in that navy and was often confused with galleon.

I think one could even create war pinnace with 50 heavier guns (up to 18lbs, I think).

pirate_kk
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thanks for support + idea of 18lbs pinnace. As i allready have a pinnace of war with 40 cannon
24lbs, if i remember right, is about same size like "Norske Lowe" . now you can name your "pinnace of war"
to "Norske Lowe". + thousand thanks. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/bow.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":bow" border="0" alt="bow.gif" /> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/bow.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":bow" border="0" alt="bow.gif" />
Bye CapHawk <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/buds.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":drunk" border="0" alt="buds.gif" /> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/type_1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":nk" border="0" alt="type_1.gif" />
 
the ship really is beautiful, but its the idea of no cannons to go with the gunports that bugs me, but hey, its there for people who want it.
 
<!--quoteo(post=141150:date=Mar 3 2006, 10:32 PM:name=Captain Hawk)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Captain Hawk @ Mar 3 2006, 10:32 PM) [snapback]141150[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
...normal pinnace has 22 guns 12 lbs = 265lbs firepower 50 guns 4 ibs = 200lbs firepower less than normal
pinnace has. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

What we are failing to take into account is that the weight factor affecting the stability of the ship is not measured in the weight of the shot but the actual weight of the cannons themselves.

Example:
While the weight of the 9 lb. shot is 50% that of an 18 lb. one, the cannon itself is 75% that of the 18.

Thus four 9 pound cannon might push the shot weight of "two" 18 pound cannon in a volley, but they actually weigh the same as "three" 18 pound cannon.
 
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/hi.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":gday" border="0" alt="hi.gif" />
HI Petros
real 4lbs cannon : " A Nelson-era ship's cannon, calibre 4lbs. Item A322. 11.000EUR."
"Weight of cannon&carriage ca. 170kg." 170 x50 =8.5 tons" <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":rolleyes:" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" />
If you like to have 50 it is only 550000 euros. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" /> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/piratesing.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":shock" border="0" alt="piratesing.gif" />
I think 550000 euros are more affecting the stability of bank account than 550 ton ships stability . <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheeky" border="0" alt="icon_mrgreen1.gif" />
Maybe you need to add some stones to ships bottom for stability. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="icon_wink.gif" />
Bye CapHawk <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/type_1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":nk" border="0" alt="type_1.gif" /> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/par-ty.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheers" border="0" alt="par-ty.gif" />
 
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