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    Maelstrom New Horizons


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Pre Build 13 weapon availability

No, you were right. It must be something else. It has SOME effect, but i dont know what it does.

When i started the new game, i was level 1 - those items should not appear until level 2.

Further, i found that most of the time those three swords are the best that appears - but this time, i also saw a needle, a dragon's tongue and a highlander - which should be even higher level

So this is not it. Its affecting something, but i dont know what.


I wonder when this itm.minlevel feature was disabled, and if theres a way to reimplement it.
 
Does anyone know how these multipliers work in the buildsettings.h file?

SHIPYARD_SHIP_SELL_MULT
SHIPYARD_CANNON_SELL_MULT

I thought they simply multiple the value of the ship to get the sale price - ie 40 000 x 0.25 = 10 000

Since the defaults are 0.25 and 0.75 respectively, which i consider too harsh and little for a ship, i changed them to 0.70 and 0.85 respectively.



However, i noticed some strange behaviour, so i tested on a new game having changed just the ship sell multiplier to 0.70. I started at adventurer, for the english, with a sloop.

I started with 2000. I sold the sloop for 58 000, giving me a total of 60 000. Therefore, you would think i could only purchase a ship worth 60 000.

However, i found i could purchase a fast schooner for 75 000, and still have about a 1000 left!!

So i need to know how this works. I dont want to sell ships for a quarter of what they are worth, but this is very strange.

Either the multiplier doesnt work as i thought it did (value x multiplier expressed as a decimal) or something is very very wrong.
 
I think those are used for low and high quality shipyard merchants. Not sure... its miniscule enough to not be noticable i think.

As for the weapons items in merchants toggle... I found the insert point to simply put two lines of code, and BAM it all works right. I will be testing it for ill effects, and see if it works. If its ok, it will be in the next update, default off (like it behaves now) but turning it on will restrict items to player level.
 
<!--quoteo(post=155117:date=Jul 24 2006, 12:49 PM:name=IncredibleHat)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(IncredibleHat @ Jul 24 2006, 12:49 PM) [snapback]155117[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
I think those are used for low and high quality shipyard merchants. Not sure... its miniscule enough to not be noticable i think.

As for the weapons items in merchants toggle... I found the insert point to simply put two lines of code, and BAM it all works right. I will be testing it for ill effects, and see if it works. If its ok, it will be in the next update, default off (like it behaves now) but turning it on will restrict items to player level.
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Thanks TIH

But one thing - that shipyard thing aint minor. I swear with 0.25 i can only sell a sloop for like 18 000. Bloody hell i dont like that! Any chance to change it?

With that setting it sells for much more, but unfortunately its a little buggy. Still, id rather balance it out so i end up with the right amount then be robbed of the value of the ship!

Who came up with this 25% value of a ship thing anyway? Its an obvious balance for pirates only.

Someone here had the right idea - if you buy a ship, you can sell it at a decent trade price - like say 70% of what its worth.

If you steal a ship, you can only sell it back for a black market price - like say 35 - 50% of its worth.

That way, you can be a merchant or a pirate, and still play a balanced game.
 
I really really like this mod and changes. But its also got a LOT of bugs; ones which are very irritating.

Its also got what i consider oversights and inconsistencies.

Perhaps i should begin to write them down in a list so as to provide some decent feedback. Itd be quite a list though.
 
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Its also got what i consider oversights and inconsistencies.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah... you aint kidding about that. Its called "blinded view"... most modders have it because they spend so much time play testing, they never actually even THINK what its like for someone new to the game to play it.
 
A lot of good points are being brought up in this thread. And a lot needs to be done about the game balancing. The mods themselves are good, but the balancing is not. I think that along with bugfixing, gamebalancing should be one of the most important things on our to-do lists. I fear, however, that it would take very much effort indeed, along with lots of rewriting, which could again introduce new bugs. So should we do all this for Build 13? Or should we release a Build 13 that is not balanced entirely properly and after that work on a new Build 14 that WILL be working entirely properly. I think it is important to release Build 13 very soon. But there is so much things we should still change that if we'd wait until we HAVE changed it, we are yet another year further and we'd STILL not have a Build 13. I think we should make an imperfect Build 13 soon and then work on a much better Build 14.

Note: I am catching up on the events of last week now and I have no time to read all previous posts in this thread at the moment. Sorry for that.

Many modders actually DO put toggles on their own mods. I added a toggle on the bladedamage mod, for example.

About broken blades: This was something new in the latest update. I did change it so you shouldn't find broken blades, but apparently it doesn't work. If only I knew how to fix that... <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/modding.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":modding" border="0" alt="modding.gif" />

<!--quoteo(post=154913:date=Jul 22 2006, 12:49 PM:name=irR4tiOn4L)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(irR4tiOn4L @ Jul 22 2006, 12:49 PM) [snapback]154913[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
There is one other thing - i find it a good example of overcomplication when 'hiring' crew takes you till nightfall. Especially with the bug that does this even if you dont hire any. What does this 'feature' add? In my opinion, nothing, it just forces you to visit stores/shipyards/taverns in a particular order.
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There is a reason for that though. There used to be a problem with too little crew being available from taverns sometimes. So CouchcaptainCharles added some code so that, depending on player rank, there will ALWAYS be some crew available for hire when you open the interface. He added the time delay to prevent this from becoming a cheat. Otherwise you could open the interface over and over again and fill up your crew entirely while there shouldn't be too much crew available. I do agree that the delay should NOT occur if you don't hire any crew or fire them instead. Somebody will need to figure out how to code that in though.
 
Im sorry, but thats a poor way to handle it.

It could easily have been done so that a variable for how many crew were available was set for that DATE (dd/mm/yy) and opening the interface again would not change that variable. Then youd still HAVE to go to a new day to hire more, but werent forced to.

Second, it is not a modder's job to prevent 'cheating'. Especially not at such a high cost to playability. In any case, that should have been a toggle its so annoying.

I could tell you about all the ships in the build that are so 'cheated' i refuse to use them - pirate versions are generally like this (way more speed and meanouvrability, and much larger cannons - makes no engineering or gameplay sense), also the gaff rigged xebec, super frigates, light frigates (for some reason they mount larger guns, twice the crew, much more cargo and hull and are much more meanouvrable and fast then the corvette model they use) some warship versions of ordinary ships (they ussually have a MAJOR increase in speed and meanouvrability, as well as cannon calibre, while maintaining hull and cargo space)

Then of course are all the swords you can now use straight away that the AI cannot. And the various imbalances in the game, such as looting dead bodies, that allow you to build up infinite funds.

But for some strange reason, you choose not to prevent cheating there, but choose to 'draw the line' at how much crew we can hire? That doesnt cut it. Take it out or toggle it, or handle it differently, its a waste of time.



There are two overriding trends that are ruining the playability of these builds:

A - the desire for people when creating their mods to put in 'uber' stuff like a 'super' ship or 'super' sword, or better yet, the 'super' merchant from older builds, that does it all, so that they can then use it as a short cut to grinding for all that stuff in a new game. The excuse is that you have to 'find' them - as if that made it alright for these nonsensical additions to have been put in

B - the desire for people when creating mods to change other areas of the game just so they are 'in line' with their mod changes - for example - various state of wear and tear swords mandating 'blacksmiths', themselves mandating 'degrading quality swords', the crew hiring changes mandating a delay, the 'build settlements' option, with its land fortifications, mandating 'random invasions' when you talk to the proprietors, the gunpowder for ships mandating gunpowder and ammo for handguns, the vice city mod setting up 'ambushes' when shop keepers are killed, and so on and so forth.

The best mods either allow toggles, or dont incorporate these desires. But its amazing how much of the game that is practically the same as stock has had little bits and pieces added as if just to mess with it, just to have a footprint of your 'presence' -

- want a concrete example? Well how about the 'hold on a sec while i get out the chart' message that appears when you quickly want to go to the map again after entering the sea mode, and forces you to wait a few seconds.

Why is that there? I am willing to hazard that its there to prevent the 'cheat' of entering the sea and quitting again to avoid encounters and storms. Even if thats not it, i bet the reason its there is not so compelling that it MUST be there. And if it doesnt HAVE to be there, it really shouldnt be.
 
Irratrional,

Thanks for voicing these concerns. I totally agree with those - couldn't have spelled it out better myself. Hope your voice has a more significant impact down here than mine <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/whistling.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":wp" border="0" alt="whistling.gif" />
 
<!--quoteo(post=154913:date=Jul 22 2006, 12:49 PM:name=irR4tiOn4L)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(irR4tiOn4L @ Jul 22 2006, 12:49 PM) [snapback]154913[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
There is one other thing - i find it a good example of overcomplication when 'hiring' crew takes you till nightfall. Especially with the bug that does this even if you dont hire any. What does this 'feature' add? In my opinion, nothing, it just forces you to visit stores/shipyards/taverns in a particular order.
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You will be pleased to know that I have been working on this issue yesterday. Instead of forcing the player to wait until evening, I now recoded this so that it works exactly as irR4tiOn4L suggests: The player is not forced to wait until nightfall, but the amount of crew will only be changed the next day again. I tested this and it works fine. I think this is much better than the previous solution. And it STILL prevents cheating, so the original intent of that code remains. I hope you will find this a nice improvement in the next modpack update. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/doff.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":doff" border="0" alt="doff.gif" />

In the next modpack update, you will find that much gamebalancing stuff has been changed, most of it done by IncredibleHat. It all seems to work reasonably well, but it still needs testing. However, I am quite certain that you will find it a major improvement. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/whistling.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":wp" border="0" alt="whistling.gif" />
 
I think the issue brought up in this topic has been solved in the latest modpack updates.

The discussion in this topic has moved to a completely different topic, so for clarity's sake, I have moved all the discussion on balancing the ships in the game to the <a href="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=7914" target="_blank">Balancing the ships in the game</a> thread instead. I hope nobody minds. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/whistling.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":wp" border="0" alt="whistling.gif" />
 
<!--quoteo(post=156667:date=Aug 5 2006, 10:39 PM:name=Pieter Boelen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pieter Boelen @ Aug 5 2006, 10:39 PM) [snapback]156667[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
I think the issue brought up in this topic has been solved in the latest modpack updates.

The discussion in this topic has moved to a completely different topic, so for clarity's sake, I have moved all the discussion on balancing the ships in the game to the <a href="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=7914" target="_blank">Balancing the ships in the game</a> thread instead. I hope nobody minds. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/whistling.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":wp" border="0" alt="whistling.gif" />
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yeah that was my fault, apologies. Thanks for putting it somewhere more visible though!
 
No problem. It is good that it is being discussed. But I thought it would be good to seperate it so that it would have it's own thread. It did deserve it's own thread.
 
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