Small Changes You'd Like

Civrules · May 28, 2004

This is obviously a $50 game and to buy it and see that some silly things are still in would certainly be disappointing (not to mention noticing big, silly things <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blush.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" :eek:

ops" border="0" alt="blush.gif" />: ).

From the video, it seems that it is quite unrealistic that people get blown twice as high as the ship itself when a projectile hits them, and then to expect they survived (after the hit...AND the fall) and actually pick them up...
Now, this may be improved because the game is still pretty early on. But to see (like another thread said) only two ships fighting when eight others are sitting around is pretty unrealistic. I do believe that this would be different in the final product because it is obviously such a big issue, that it would just not make sense to make it so crappy.

I think that the early stages of a game (where you know NOTHING about it and yet are full of speculation) are the most torture for the fan...

Keith · May 28, 2004

I think its been a design path though to stay away from the realitys of fighting, so the men getting blown off and that are to seem more comical than anything. Other features of the game such as the dancing and maze ( aka jail escape ) point towards a younger target audience, not to say it wont be fun i think it will but it will lack alot of seriousness you will find in SD2 ( whenever it comes out )

devildog · May 28, 2004

well you can look at if from this perspective, when you feel a little more cartoony (i guess is a way to describe it) then go with Pirates! 2004 and when you feel a bit more realistic go with SD2, you have to decide which you want i suppose and if you have money to burn go with both and play on a whim, i would rather have two ends of the spectrum like this as apposed to having several games coming out that are almost identical each other, i hope everyone understands what im trying to get at here. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":?" border="0" alt="unsure.gif" />

Civrules · May 28, 2004

And SD2 is...?

And then, I hope this does not turn into something I think it will. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":?" border="0" alt="unsure.gif" />

CatalinaThePirate · May 29, 2004

Sea Dogs II, the game that PotC was SUPPOSED to be until Disney bought it. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" :rolleyes:

" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" />

Rabiddogg · May 29, 2004

Is Sea Dogs 2 going to take place in a real world setting(i.e planet earth). Or is it going to take place in the same fictious setting as before?

ScottsBlood · May 29, 2004

Hmmr...
I've ne'er known a thing that doesn't exist to be the cause such confusion as SDII. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" :rolleyes:

" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" />

Seabro · May 29, 2004

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rabiddogg)</div><div class='quotemain'>Is Sea Dogs 2 going to take place in a real world setting(i.e planet earth). Or is it going to take place in the same fictious setting as before?</div>

Real Caribbean this time. From Akella's point of view <img src="http://forum.arhipelag.net/html/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" />

MarkQuinn · May 29, 2004

This is a fantastic thread because it strikes at the heart of so many good issues. My mouth is watering.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>From the video, it seems that it is quite unrealistic that people get blown twice as high as the ship itself when a projectile hits them</div>

True ... but.

You would be hard pressed to find much in the movie Pirates of the Caribbean which is realistic. Same with the movie Cutthroat Island. Or the POTC ride. Or just about any other popular media I've seen that deals with piracy. As a matter of fact I challenge you to find one actual pirate movie that includes one actual act of piracy (most people when faced with that question say "Whoa there buddy ... POTC had one! Remember when brave Captain Jack Sparrow with the help of dashing young Will Turner stole the English frigate right from under their noses! That was a pretty good example of an act of piracy there, wasn't it buddy?"

I rest my case.

Men flying 300 feet in the air and plopping into the water to await my rescue and subsequent pressing into my crew does not bother me one iota. Nor do the cartoony graphics or the overall fun atmosphere of the thing. It's to be expected from the franchise. But let us differentiate between unrealistic and unfair....

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>only two ships fighting when eight others are sitting around is pretty unrealistic</div>

Yes, you are correct that that would be unrealistic if both ships were heavily crewed and armed. Many times however ships would act as tenders and not fight. Sometimes they were given a only a skeleton crew (and no I am not talking about the skeleton crews from POTC). I can very easily see the two lead ships duking it out while the others waited in the background. If Pirates! offers 1 on 1 fights only I will be happy. But reviews of the game and movie trailers suggest otherwise. They suggest that fights will take place between our one ship vs. multiple others. Realistic? I don't know, nor am I that concerned about it. Unfair? Yes, it seems so at this point. Unbalancing? I seriously doubt that any Sid Meier game will contain drastic unbalancing issues, but even still, it somehow rubs the wrong way that the AI can take as many ships into battle as they want while I can only offer 1 from my own fleet. It would be nice if Firaxis could comment on the reasons behind their design philosophy here.

Moving on....

This notion that the SeaDogs franchise is in any way, shape or form the "realistic" counterpart to Pirates! is personally offensive to me. As a student of piracy I simply cannot accept that idea. Just because a game contains realistically scaled and modeled ships does not mean it is realistic. Does anyone here play sports games? EA Sports et al have made some very impressive, realistic looking games. Some of them are actually very good. I am currently playing MVP Baseball 2004 and sometimes I feel like I'm watching a real broadcast. The stats that my games are generating are for the most part realistic, but there are some major discrepancies. Compare that to any of the "manager" type games which do not have the fancy graphics, the `play-by`-play commentary, the broadcast style, etc. You will find that those simpler manager games are much more realistic. One looks prettier, the other is more serious.

And yes, I maintain that the new Pirates! (which looks no less pretty than the SD series but just different) will be the more realistic game when you look at them both in their entirety. Of course I can only compare old builds of these games --- the original Pirates!, Pirates! Gold on multiple platforms, SeaDogs and POTC --- all of which I have played. We must assume that SeaDogs 2 and the new Pirates! will follow similar paths to the old.

Pirates! contains the entire Caribbean map. Real islands. Believable politcal situations. The SD series contains the infamous "Archipelago" which was made more laughable in POTC when they included the Portuguese. I begged them not to do that in several posts on the POTC forum months before the game's release. It was so unrealsitic that the idea of it gave me heart murmers. The Papal Line of Demarcation made it impossible for Spain and Portugal to have posessions in the same waters. It was a very big thing. They were so intent on adding a fifth nation, however, and I wondered why they couldn't just add the Dutch who were in the Caribbean at the time. But in the end they had a totally fictional set of islands so why not just break all the rules? At least they stopped short of adding Chinese posessions to the "Archipelago" and numerous junks for us to pillage.

The new Pirates! will continue to feature the division of plunder. I know this because of a review I read where they mentioned going to a bank to divide plunder. The SD series, by contrast, has no such feature. Crews demand monthly payment. Anyone who has even remotely educated themselves about piracy knows that pirates operated under the rule "No Prey, No Pay". It was their credo, something so vitally important to the establishment of Caribbean piracy that it practically defined them as an institution. For the SD franchise to completely overlook it in favor of monthly wages is tantamount to sacrilege.

The original Pirates! and subsequent versions allowed enemy ships to strike their colors and surrender. Sometimes they would strike before the battle even began. I have not heard anything in the reviews about this but I can only assume Firaxis will leave it in. Why not? It was completely realistic. This was another issue I posted about constantly in the SD/POTC forums. Again, a little reading up on piracy will reveal that most engagements ended peacefully, with no real engagement at all, actually. This was the reason pirates relied so much on intimidation. They didn't necessarily WANT to fight, though they were prepared if need be. That was one thing I loved about the original Pirates! There was this reputation rating ranging from promising to `well-known` to famous to notorious to infamous. I knew when I had a few things in my favor --- a `well-manned` ship, a happy crew and an infamous reputation --- those Spaniards would strike and it was such a good feeling, like a slam dunk or a hole in one. By contrast the SD series never had striking of colors and it took away such a major aspect of piracy. Unforgivable.

The Pirates! series was wonderful in one other aspect. The game had closure, and almost from the very beginning of your career you started planning for the end of it. Time was short, life was shorter. You AGED. As you got older, your abilities and sharpness began to fade. But to balance that, as you became more infamous and your wealth increased, as you showed a history of having provided well for your crews, more men would agree to join you. So there you were, hitting your early thirties and beginning to slow considerably. You thought about retiring from piracy but then there was always that ONE MORE EXPEDITION. Why not? Every time I enter a tavern a hundred plus men want to join me. I could have a fleet! And every time I raise the jolly roger these Spaniards strike. I could do that ONE MORE EXPEDITION and really retire wealthy. That balancing act was the one thing that made you play the game over and over and over.

By contrast, when does SD/POTC end?

When you finish the main storyline.

You have to look deeper than just graphics if you want to judge the relative realism of a game. Sure, SeaDogs LOOKS gorgeous. As a matter of fact I was a little upset when I first saw the screenshots for the new Pirates! Knowing they were using the Morrowind engine, I thought the whole thing would be in first person. I honestly thought we would be getting the realism of the Pirates! franchise combined with a first person perspective to rival the beauty of SD/POTC. Not so, as we discovered. But that will not hamper my enjoyment. The new Pirates! will indeed have some fun, cartoony and yes, even unrealistic elements (for one thing you can't die or be hanged --- kudos to Eidos' Cutthroats: Terror on the High Seas for being the one game I know of that allows that). But overall --- and I say this having studied pirates for many years; as a matter of fact the original Pirates! first motivated me to learn more --- the new Pirates! IMO will offer a much more realistic pirate experience than the trash `psuedo-history` that SeaDogs presents. Don't take my word for it. To anyone who thinks the SD/POTC games are more "realistic", wait for a while, play the newest games from both producers when they are released. Then buy some books, do some reading online. Learn everything you can about piracy and come back here and tell me if pretty ships alone make for a more realistic pirate game.

<img src="http://publish.hometown.aol.com/markquinn2k3/images/newquinn01.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" />

CatalinaThePirate · May 29, 2004

Very thoughtful post, Mark! Valid points, all. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/onya.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" :onya

" border="0" alt="onya.gif" /> <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/par-ty.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" :cheers

" border="0" alt="par-ty.gif" />

For myself, although I DO consider myself to be a serious history buff, I can ignore a little historical innacuracy, as long as I'm having a good time. PotC UNmodded is unfortunately a very buggy game and crashes and dead ends frustrated me more than whether it was correct for the Portuguese to be in this fictitious, presumably Caribbean archipelago.

Modified by a lot of very talented individuals, PotC has, bit by bit, become more of the game it should have been... (for instance, you CAN divide the plunder in the modded game)

I think Akella has done some marvelous things in regards to their upcoming Sea Dogs II (or whatever they plan to call it), and I look forward to it, as well as to their other pirate games - AND their PT Boat game too. I like what they do.

I am TRULY looking forward to the new Pirates! game. What I saw of it at E3 was awesome, and I am going to be there early, banging at the store door on the day of release... I think it will be a VERY absorbing and immersive game.

Let's face it though, everyone. These games are NOT simulations of real life... They are GAMES... Piracy has been romanticized by novels and movies and the dreams of people who wish to break free from ordinary lives and do something daring... YES, there would probably be buyers for a completely realistic game simulating true acts of piracy and historical accuracy... But there would be far more people lining up to buy Pirates! and Sea Dogs II...

Bottom line, they're producing these games to make money, so they are appealing to the masses... There are less historically minded people in this world than there are people who want to be amused by a game for a couple of hours... And there ya have it.

MarkQuinn · May 30, 2004

Catalina,

What PT boat game are you talking about? I might be interested in that. Does it have the same wonderful ocean physics and graphics as the SD series? Is it out yet?

Also, please specify which mods you're talking about that allow the division of plunder. I found a bunch of mods but don't know which ones are worth downloading. I am not really interested in new ships, although they look wonderful. I saw the slave trade mod and the brothel mod, both of which looked interesting because they would bring to the game actual things that you might find in the Caribbean at the time ... but those alone are just fluff if the game isn't fundamentally improved. Division of plunder is one giant leap forward, but I wonder how it is handled. Do the crew stop demanding monthly payments? Also, is there a mod that allows enemy ships to strike their colors after they reach x number of crew or ship damage? Mods like that would make me rethink the game.

Believe me I see your point about these games being fantasies, and therefore we should not expect `ultra-realism`. But I simply feel some rules must be followed. Did you ever hear of an old game called Shipwreckers? It was a `top-down` view of a pirate ship which went through a maze of inland and coastal waters blasting everything in its path. It fired rockets and laid mines and avoided `sea-monsters` and the whole nine. It was meant to be a funny arcade game, nothing more. Even though the topic was piracy, I doubt it would have appealed to many SeaDogs or Pirates! fans for anything more than light entertainment value. The game was not very detailed and the only inherent goal was to get a high score. Most serious fans of pirate games would want a lot more to satisfy them. These games we love --- Pirates! and SeaDogs and Cutthroats, etc. --- do offer a lot more. We play them because they offer more realism, relatively speaking. We play them because their brand of the FANTASY brings us closer to the reality. But when faced with such gross historical errors, we are reminded that we are playing a game and suddenly the reality (for me at least) becomes no more real than Shipwreckers. Much of it has to do with knowledge. For instance, I know very little about sailing ships: their characteristics, capabilities, what line does what and what cannon will fit on this one or that one. So when `Man-of`-War 2 came out and all the historians were complaining about how unrealistic the ships were, I happily sailed along firing broadsides and said what of it --- it's still a fun game.

People who don't know Spain and Portugal didn't have posessions in the same waters don't care what Akella has done. People who never studied a real Caribbean map could care less if SeaDogs took place on the Spanish Main, the Archipelago or the waters off B.F.E. Nor do they care about striking colors or dividing plunder. For so many people, it's enough to sail on torquoise waters and watch the palm trees against a red Caribbean sky and blast holes in their opponent's sails and sing Yo Ho Ho and a Bottle of Rum as they click away, slashing and hacking at the poor Spanish captain. Great. I am not one of those people. Knowing more (as I am sure many here do) I can safely say that despite Pirates! new cartoony graphics and sailors being flung 300 feet in the air, this new Firaxis game will satisfy much more in the way of realism than any pirate game since ... well, the original Pirates! And that's a good thing to know, even if you don't know what is realistic and what is not. Even if you don't much care, it's nice to know that the career path you're following might mirror in some small way the career path of a real pirate 300 years ago (having said that, I must briefly tell the story of the time I sailed as an English pirate and took almost every town in the Main for England. Still having plenty of youth and strength and on a whim, I decided to conquer them all back for their respective nations. Not too realistic, but it only happened once <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dev.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":d:" border="0" alt="dev.gif" /> ). In the same way, if some mod came out that improved the characteristics of the POTC ships to make them almost lifelike, even if I didn't know what lifelike was, I would still download and install the mod simply to know I was in some way compliant with a little slice of reality.

This is why I get bent out of shape I guess when I read people saying they'll play SeaDogs when they want reality and Pirates! when they want fantasy. I feel it is the other way around. But that's just me. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

" border="0" alt="icon_wink.gif" />

<img src="http://publish.hometown.aol.com/markquinn2k3/images/mqbanner5.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" />

CatalinaThePirate · May 30, 2004

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MarkQuinn)</div><div class='quotemain'>What PT boat game are you talking about?</div>It is Akella's newest sea adventure game - A WW2 naval sim. Here's their official website - <a href="http://www.`pt-boats`.net/" target="_blank">http://www.`pt-boats`.net/</a> I saw this demoed at E3, and it looks awesome...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MarkQuinn)</div><div class='quotemain'>Does it have the same wonderful ocean physics and graphics as the SD series?</div>Yes.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MarkQuinn)</div><div class='quotemain'>Is it out yet?</div>No... Akella has projected it will be released Q1, 2005.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MarkQuinn)</div><div class='quotemain'>Also, please specify which mods you're talking about that allow the division of plunder.</div>Build 11.0 is the newest, but this feature has been built into the Build for quite some time now. It is modeled after the Pirates! division of plunder.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MarkQuinn)</div><div class='quotemain'>Do the crew stop demanding monthly payments?</div>Yes. They'll also get angry at you if there isn't enough "prey"... <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MarkQuinn)</div><div class='quotemain'>Also, is there a mod that allows enemy ships to strike their colors after they reach x number of crew or ship damage?</div>Not yet, but I think there are some modders looking at doing it up. Right now you still have to board a ship in order to get them to surrender. BUT sometimes they DO surrender right away (no fighting necessary). Whether they do this or not depends upon the morale of their crew and how many there are of them left, and the condition of their ship... So even if there is no physical "lowering of the colors" to surrender, they will surrender if the conditions are right. It's not the TRUE lowering of the colors surrender you want, but I do believe there are people currently looking at ways to implement this into PotC.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MarkQuinn)</div><div class='quotemain'>Believe me I see your point about these games being fantasies, and therefore we should not expect `ultra-realism`. But I simply feel some rules must be followed.</div>Oh I totally agree. I'm not (I keep saying this) a gamer, really. I don't like wasting my time - if I play a game, I want it to be a challenge and not just endless stabbing away at one key to kill something running around on the screen ahead of me. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":blah:" border="0" alt="tongue.gif" />

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MarkQuinn)</div><div class='quotemain'>Most serious fans of pirate games would want a lot more to satisfy them.</div>Yes, I agree again. My point was, there are those of us who do want those kinds of games, and then there are the others who would get seriously bored if it was one history lesson after another. The game developers have to strike a happy medium, or their bottom line will not be quite so satisfying after all their hard work...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MarkQuinn)</div><div class='quotemain'>This is why I get bent out of shape I guess when I read people saying they'll play SeaDogs when they want reality and Pirates! when they want fantasy. I feel it is the other way around. But that's just me. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

" border="0" alt="icon_wink.gif" /></div><img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" :rolleyes:

" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" /> Yeh well what can ya do, there are a lot of 'em out there. We more `historically-minded` people just have to take it - because as I mentioned before, the game developers are looking at appealing to the masses... We're outnumbered... <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":blah:" border="0" alt="tongue.gif" />

BUT... That makes PotC, being so easily modded (Thank you, Akella!), all the much better for us - because we CAN change things - make them more realistic...

When I stumbled upon this website, I was looking for a patch for a buggy game... What I found was an incredibly interesting bunch of people working on modifying PotC so that it would be better - more realistic - and more playable. I got intrigued first by the "skinning" or texturing (I am a graphics `artist-of`-sorts) - I could "repaint" a ship? COOL! So I tried that... THEN I got into something totally different - actually working on a side quest... Writing code, &tc... Turned out to be some fun, so I have stuck with it - and if you had asked me back in January if I'd be hacking into a game code to put in my own modifications, I'd have laughed out loud and shook my head in wonderment at such a silly idea.

But here I am... Despite the little headbanging smiley at the end of my sig (which is called "modding", LOL!), I do enjoy modding... It can be frustrating, but I do enjoy it. I wouldn't do this for many games simply because the subject matter does not interest me - but piracy I can dig... (I play a pirate at our regional Renaissance Pleasure Faire - we take our history seriously - even tho I am bending the rules a bit about a female pirate, ha!)

Believe me, we've all had the "historically correct" conversations about this game... I think a lot of what is incorrect in this game is due to the fact that the original Sea Dogs II was bought out by Disney and they asked that the game be made over into something that they could `tie-into` their PotC movie. This game was never meant to be in the "real" Caribbean... Also, it was supposed to be in a different time period, hence the different types of ships that are not really "period"...

This game is a mishmosh of a lot of different eras and there are SO MANY oddities that it is difficult to recognize any real continuity. Well, no wonder, since the original concept was scrapped and a completely different concept shoehorned into the existing structure. The modders here and at other PotC fansites have banded together to make PotC into Sea Dogs II (what it was supposed to be, what everyone was waiting for) themselves - they dug into the code and "woke up" parts of this game that had been suppressed by Disney - fixed or finished up quests so that they were not dead ends - and a whole host of other things... This makes the game so much better! Believe me, Build 11 is the best way to go.

Oh I am rambling as usual... <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" />

I am looking forward to Pirates! with as much anticipation as I am looking forward to Akella's "Sea Dogs II" (or whatever they are going to call it). I think both will be enjoyable. I see Pirates! as being (pardon the expression) painted with a big broader (and brighter!) brush as far as action and fantasy are concerned because I DID see it demoed at E3 - and it looks like it will be one hugely entertaining game - I think they are doing a great job with it, and I doubt anyone who plays it will be disappointed. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" :yes

" border="0" alt="yes.gif" /> <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/par-ty.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" :cheers

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ScottsBlood · May 30, 2004

The water in those `pt-boat` screenshots looks impressively real to me eyes. I think I felt a bit of ocean spray.

skull · May 30, 2004

Aye Mates,I've been keep'n an eye on dis game fer sure I'd be buy'n it along wid Sid Meirs Pirates as well,it should keep me outa trouble fer a while <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" :yes

" border="0" alt="yes.gif" /> <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/par-ty.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" :cheers

" border="0" alt="par-ty.gif" />

YankeePyrate · May 30, 2004

Aye, PT Boats looks very enticing. Quinn, GREAT to see ya around here matey. You add dignity to any forum. Not that this place needs it...PA Forums are always full of cool people and insightful thoughts! <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" :yes

" border="0" alt="yes.gif" />

Keith · May 30, 2004

We also have a trailor for PT Boats aswell which is damm fantastic but im waiting for Alex to send the Q&A back before i release it

YankeePyrate · May 31, 2004

I'd love to start up a McHale's Navy mod for PT Boat. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/onya.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" :onya

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CatalinaThePirate · May 31, 2004

<img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/w00t.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" :woot

" border="0" alt="w00t.gif" /> LOL @ YankeePyrate!!! Great idea! <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/onya.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" :onya

" border="0" alt="onya.gif" />

I like how the PT game looks... Serious fun zipping about in that little ship, attacking bigger ships and sinking them, yeah... And there's a PBY Catalina (haha!) flying boat too!!! <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" />

Small Changes You'd Like

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