Included in Build Some Potions and Antidotes not used by Officers and Crew

[Levis]

according to the function
LAi_type_officer_CharacterUpdate

Officers will only use the normal antidotes, not the mod added ones.
It's an easy fix and I will try to fix it soon but can someone confirm this? Might be it's handled somewhere else but I couldn't find it.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Could you post the relevant section of code? You might very well be right.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

It's an easy fix and I will try to fix it soon but can someone confirm this? Might be it's handled somewhere else but I couldn't find it.

Could you post the section of code that you refer to here? Maybe I can have a quick look into it.
Would be nice if all characters use all "potion" types, of course. Especially if it is a simple fix.

 

[Grey Roger]

I haven't even seen officers use plain basic antidote. They live with the poison, which eventually wears off. They do use potions which heal HP, along with the mod-added bandages and cauterizing kits.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

I haven't even seen officers use plain basic antidote. They live with the poison, which eventually wears off. They do use potions which heal HP, along with the mod-added bandages and cauterizing kits.

That's annoying and should dfinitely be fixed at some point then!
I seem to remember deliberately adding code to the Weaponslocker so that your crew DOES get equipped with potions AND antidotes.
The idea was that you could then use, for example, Stinkbombs during a boarding action and protect your crew from its effects.
That doesn't work then, does it?

 

[Grey Roger]

I've never used stinkbombs during boarding actions and never found them particularly useful anywhere else, including the part of the "Assassin" storyline where you're specifically provided with them.

Crew certainly take healing potions from the weapons locker. I've no idea if they actually use the potions because the only way I can see what they're carrying is if they get killed and I loot them. If I left potions in the locker then the crewmember will be carrying one or two, which evidently didn't do him much good otherwise I wouldn't be looting him.

I very rarely use stinkbombs because they don't seem very effective, even in the part of the "Assassin" story in which you're specifically given them. But I do give antidotes to my officers, and if an officer then gets bitten by a rabid monkey then his icon goes green, stays green for a while and eventually returns to normal as the poison wears off; meanwhile the antidote is still in the officer's inventory.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Crew certainly take healing potions from the weapons locker. I've no idea if they actually use the potions because the only way I can see what they're carrying is if they get killed and I loot them. If I left potions in the locker then the crewmember will be carrying one or two, which evidently didn't do him much good otherwise I wouldn't be looting him.

Ugh, that's a bit useless then.
I'm not sure if NPC characters are set up to use potion type items at all. Officers do, that much I know, but how about any others?
If crew indeed doesn't use them, that would be good to change.

Just to be absolutely certain, can I assume that if you DON'T put any potions in your Weapons Locker, you also DO NOT loot them from your crew?
This to rule out the possibility that they do use them, but some other code randomly gives them some potions again to "give you something to loot".
I know there is code similar to that somewhere, but of course we would not want that to apply here.

I've never used stinkbombs during boarding actions and never found them particularly useful anywhere else, including the part of the "Assassin" storyline where you're specifically provided with them.

I think there were originally meant more for fun than for anything else.
It might be pretty nice to do some "citizen looting" with them because since the kills can't be traced to YOU, you wouldn't get a reputation hit for it, I think.

Do you have any thoughts on how to make them more useful? Would be nice if all the special content in the game does actually serve some purpose.

I do give antidotes to my officers, and if an officer then gets bitten by a rabid monkey then his icon goes green, stays green for a while and eventually returns to normal as the poison wears off; meanwhile the antidote is still in the officer's inventory.

That does sound like pretty conclusive evidence. Thanks.

 

[Levis]

@Pieter Boelen check line 35 in LAi_officer.c
That should trigger the use of antidote. If at least officers are given this template.
I think boarding crew etc are set to warrior, this template doesn't contain healing.

 

[Grey Roger]

Just to be absolutely certain, can I assume that if you DON'T put any potions in your Weapons Locker, you also DO NOT loot them from your crew?
This to rule out the possibility that they do use them, but some other code randomly gives them some potions again to "give you something to loot".
I know there is code similar to that somewhere, but of course we would not want that to apply here.

That is correct - if I haven't put potions into the weapons locker, I don't find them on dead crew. (The similar code is perhaps for ammo; crew who are carrying firearms, yours or enemy, typically have one or two powders and/or one or two ammo of relevant type, even though crew don't use ammo.)

I think there were originally meant more for fun than for anything else.
It might be pretty nice to do some "citizen looting" with them because since the kills can't be traced to YOU, you wouldn't get a reputation hit for it, I think.

That's asking for trouble. A way to wipe out a whole load of civilians, loot the lot and get no reputation loss? Especially if there are a vendor or two within the effective radius? Anyway, it's a pot, you'd be very visible throwing it, so the kills would certainly be traced to you and should result in the same total reputation hit you'd get for killing the same number of civilians individually with a sword.

Reading around on the internet, I find that the stinkpot was a boarding weapon used especially by the Chinese, which means any encounter involving Sao Feng's junk ought to involve stinkpots. Perhaps if a stinkpot has been thrown then enemy crew morale should drop a bit, either reducing their fighting ability or increasing the chance of a surrender. Otherwise the stinkpot has the same problem as poisoned throwing knives, which is that the effect of poison is slow and not much use in a battle except against low level enemies.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

That is correct - if I haven't put potions into the weapons locker, I don't find them on dead crew. (The similar code is perhaps for ammo; crew who are carrying firearms, yours or enemy, typically have one or two powders and/or one or two ammo of relevant type, even though crew don't use ammo.)

Thanks! That plus @Levis' suggestion should give us a good lead on this one.

That's asking for trouble. A way to wipe out a whole load of civilians, loot the lot and get no reputation loss? Especially if there are a vendor or two within the effective radius? Anyway, it's a pot, you'd be very visible throwing it, so the kills would certainly be traced to you and should result in the same total reputation hit you'd get for killing the same number of civilians individually with a sword.

I was describing purely what is already the case right now.
Poisoning or looting item traders IS heavily penalized, one way or another. Just not regular citizens.
I seem to remember adding some code to trigger the "Soldier Reinforcements" also when poisoning traders, but I'm not sure if I ever confirmed that to work right.

Reading around on the internet, I find that the stinkpot was a boarding weapon used especially by the Chinese, which means any encounter involving Sao Feng's junk ought to involve stinkpots. Perhaps if a stinkpot has been thrown then enemy crew morale should drop a bit, either reducing their fighting ability or increasing the chance of a surrender. Otherwise the stinkpot has the same problem as poisoned throwing knives, which is that the effect of poison is slow and not much use in a battle except against low level enemies.

At the moment Sao Feng's ship is never used by NPCs.

Any "continuous HP hit" to enemies should make the follow battle easier than without, no? Unless the total HP hit is less than just hitting them with a pistol.
But affecting multiple enemies with that with the Stinkpot, especially if the effect is cumulative, should be useful?

 

[Grey Roger]

I was describing purely what is already the case right now.

You suggested using a stinkpot to kill a lot of civilians without getting a reputation hit. According to "initItems.c", the stinkpot does not have the "Stealth" ability, unlike the poisoned throwing knife, so I'd imagine that at the least you should get the reputation loss for whoever the stinkpot hits.

Any "continuous HP hit" to enemies should make the follow battle easier than without, no? Unless the total HP hit is less than just hitting them with a pistol.
But affecting multiple enemies with that with the Stinkpot, especially if the effect is cumulative, should be useful?

The total HP loss may very well be less than that from being hit by one of the better swords, which you're going to need to use if you want to survive combat against higher level opponents as they'll be using good swords against you. (I never buy weapons. All the swept-hilt rapiers, backblade swords, Templar swords and occasional Hibernians used by myself or my officers are second-hand, so to speak.) Anyway, the total loss before the poison wears off may not be relevant because the battle will probably be over long before then, and if everyone has huge HP then the gradual loss of HP from poison is technically useful but practically insignificant. And that's assuming that your crew are more intelligent than your officers and know what to do with an antidote because stinkpots affect everyone - they have the "selfdmg" trait which means they affect you as well if you're close enough.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

You suggested using a stinkpot to kill a lot of civilians without getting a reputation hit. According to "initItems.c", the stinkpot does not have the "Stealth" ability, unlike the poisoned throwing knife, so I'd imagine that at the least you should get the reputation loss for whoever the stinkpot hits.

Ah, you're probably right.

The total HP loss may very well be less than that from being hit by one of the better swords, which you're going to need to use if you want to survive combat against higher level opponents as they'll be using good swords against you.

A stinkpot takes the place of a pistol, not the place of a sword. So you'll end up hacking away at your enemies regardless of whether you hit them a stinkpot or a pistol.
Especially on realistic game mode, you get ONE chance to hit your enemies in a boarding action with a gun item of some kind.
You can use a (powerful?) single shot pistol or maybe even a multi-shot/brace of pistols. You can also use a Blunderbuss or Musketoon to do damage to multiple enemies at once.
Or a stinkpot, which should do gradual damage to multiple enemies at once which continues for a while during the fight.
Either way, damage is done. The main question is: What is of the most use in a boarding action?

And that's assuming that your crew are more intelligent than your officers and know what to do with an antidote because stinkpots affect everyone - they have the "selfdmg" trait which means they affect you as well if you're close enough.

They'd all be equally stupid, of course.
So that would suggest that, to make this a viable strategy if the player so chooses,
the Stinkpots should probably NOT do "selfdmg" to counter for the NPC AI not understand when to use these items and when not to.

 

[Grey Roger]

Or perhaps that's why they weren't used much in reality. The Wikipedia on the Stinkpot (weapon) describes how a basket of them would be hauled up to the tops of the fore and mizzen mast, from where they'd be thrown onto an enemy deck. Once your own men were on the enemy ship, lobbing a stinkpot over was probably not a good idea...

The "selfdmg" trait is realistic. If you're silly enough to throw the thing close to where you're standing, you should be affected as well. The same applies to a grenade. The description even warns you about this.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Or perhaps that's why they weren't used much in reality. The Wikipedia on the Stinkpot (weapon) describes how a basket of them would be hauled up to the tops of the fore and mizzen mast, from where they'd be thrown onto an enemy deck. Once your own men were on the enemy ship, lobbing a stinkpot over was probably not a good idea...

Agh, I've been confusing myself. That is the WHOLE POINT of officers and crew using antidotes!
If they do, you can use Stinkpots in a boarding and the enemy will be affected and your side won't.

The "selfdmg" trait is realistic. If you're silly enough to throw the thing close to where you're standing, you should be affected as well. The same applies to a grenade. The description even warns you about this.

Of course. But the stupidity of your officers and crew is due to game engine reasons, rather than deliberate realism.

 

[Levis]

Fixed in here:
Mod Release - Levis' Stuff [Dec 6 V2] | PiratesAhoy!

please test to see if everything works fine

 

[Pieter Boelen]

From LAi_officer.c:

  if(!LAi_IsBottleWork(chr))
   {
     if(LAi_GetCharacterRelHP(chr) < 0.6)

@Levis: What does changing that number do?

 

[Levis]

From LAi_officer.c:

  if(!LAi_IsBottleWork(chr))
   {
     if(LAi_GetCharacterRelHP(chr) < 0.6)

@Levis: What does changing that number do?

Makes it use potions a bit later.
Had to change this so if you are poisoned your health can drop a little bit and it wont start using health potions right away.
Now if you drop below 60% health it will use a potion to heal. This will probably make it use potions more effectivly also.
In later releases I will tweak this better so its a more clever system but for now this should do fine.

 

[Levis]

So people please test this.
So put some potions in your weapons locker and see if they are used and give your officer antidotes and potions and see if they work please.

 

[Levis]

Anyone noticed already if this is working okay?
I have no idea if Crew actually takes healing items from the weapons locker so could People test this?

 

[Pieter Boelen]

I have no idea if Crew actually takes healing items from the weapons locker so could People test this?

They should do. I added the code for that more than a year ago.