• New Horizons on Maelstrom
    Maelstrom New Horizons


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some suggestions

M

mark

Landlubber
I know extremely little about modding, so I don't know how feasible these suggestions are, but I think they would really make stuff more realistic.

First off, it would be great if we could make ships heel over to the wind. This would give more tactical considerations during ship battles as it changes the range for each broadside.

Second, it would be great to be able to have the speed of ships individually influenced by sea conditions. In rough seas, the big bluff bowed two deckers are faster than frigates because their rigging is stronger so they can put out more sail and because their big hulls are not as affected by the big waves. On the other hand, the frigates are faster than the big two deckers in normal sea conditions because of the hull design and lower hull profile to the wind and stuff like that. It would also be cool for each ship to have a fastest point of sail. The fore'n'aft rigged ships would be fastest on a reach with the wind 90 degrees off. They would also of course be faster close-hauled than the square-riggers. The square-riggers would be faster running before the wind.

The third thing is cosmetic. It would be great if we could make the sails actually aligned properly to the wind. The gaff-rigged sails should not be parallel to the wind. Also it would be cool if the sails would align for a close-rigged tack into the wind. I was honestly a little dissapointed with the alignment of sails in POTC when I first started playing it. And no matter how beautiful and cool of a ship the bermuda sloop is, its gaff-rigged sail is always on the wrong side.

Another thing that has bothered me about POTC from the beginning is that with full sail you somehow are more sluggish. Sailing ships don't get fast enough to get to the point where higher speeds decrease turning rate. At full sail, a sailing ship is usually more manueverable than otherwise. The more speed a sailing ship has, the better it can turn.

Another interesting point though not necessarily as important as the others is that as cannons start to fire and heat up, they start to become more effective.

I really like the sidestep in build 13. It would be cool if it looked like that with sword drawn. The new retreat move looks great to. I'm not so sure I like the new fighting stance, but maybe that's because I'm blaze devlin. It looks like we are finding out how to mess with animation and stuff. It would be cool if eventually we could make the block only block one attack and then add in some different kinds of attacks like beat attacks and feints (that could followed by a quick attack) that would need to be defended by other blocking methods, though without multi-player, it would probably be incredibly hard to get the computer to fight effectively with a new fighting system. I bet for a lot of that stuff you'd have to actually get into the game engine though.

Anyway, I'm a fan of both POTC and the build mod and think everyone has done a great job on all of this so far. There are of course many things with room for improvement, but I guess that's what you're doing. I thought I might give a little input to maybe help out a little. I might even be able to help with some basic coding stuff as I have a tad bit of programming experience and before I found the build mod, I had messed around with the script a little myself.
 
what you say about the manuevrability is not entirely true: captains would sometimes strike all sail except the mizzen/jigger sails to turn faster with the help of the wind. that's the idea in the game.

what you say about blocking is certainly interesting. maybe there could be a time-limit on blocking so you can only defend yourself against one or two blocks at a time. it would certainly make things more interesting and realistic.

i've been looking at the sails in comparison to the wind direction, and as far as i've seen, some of them are quite right actually. including the bermuda sloop. maybe i'll check again. anyway, in realistic sailing mode, the maximum angle to the wind DOES depend on the rigging type.
 
And if Peiter was here right now, he'd probably say this:

"Good ideas, but who will do it?"

We've so few modders that work piles up and some is just plain out of our league at the moment. Some stuff is hardcoded...

But an idea that I've had floating about...
Ok, does anyone think it is possible to add a third set sail command? What I mean is, if you want to set a full spread of canvas, you press the button twice. Well, what if there was a ship that we made where you could press it three times and set <i>studdingsails</i>? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" /> That would be cool! It could be an eventual goal for a future build, as its apparently easy to add masts and sails by using locators and such.
 
<!--quoteo(post=199439:date=Jun 4 2007, 06:55 AM:name=Commodore John Paul Jones)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Commodore John Paul Jones @ Jun 4 2007, 06:55 AM) [snapback]199439[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And if Peiter was here right now, he'd probably say this:

"Good ideas, but who will do it?"

We've so few modders that work piles up and some is just plain out of our league at the moment. Some stuff is hardcoded...

But an idea that I've had floating about...
Ok, does anyone think it is possible to add a third set sail command? What I mean is, if you want to set a full spread of canvas, you press the button twice. Well, what if there was a ship that we made where you could press it three times and set <i>studdingsails</i>? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" /> That would be cool! It could be an eventual goal for a future build, as its apparently easy to add masts and sails by using locators and such.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


that would be pretty cool.

Yeah, I didn't really expect many results. I just thought I might say what I think would make this game more fun. I wouldn't mind trying to look at the script and seeing what kind of stuff I might try out, but there's a lot of script and I'm not sure I really understand all of it. Maybe with a little guidance on what files I should look at I could try and figure some stuff out.

Another thing is that I think a square rigger should be able to get a tad bit closer to the wind than in the simulation mode because they usually have gaff sails or lateen sails and usually have stay sails. The simulation mode is still pretty good though.

And the bermuda sloop does not have correct sail alignment. Sail at broad reach on a port tack and see what the gaff sail does; it turns just about parallel to the wind on the port side. It should be on the starboard side almost ninety degrees from the wind. And besides, it's just dangerous to align a sail parallel to the wind; if the wind catches either side of the sail, it could swing the spars around incredibly hard possibly messing up rigging, injuring someone or throwing your ship out of control. But otherwise the rigging on this ship looks beautiful.

I meant also that for'n'aft rigged ships would actually be their fastest on a reach ninety degrees four the wind (at this point of sail, a for'n'aft rigged ship can set all of its sail safetly unlike running before the wind and broad reach). Square riggers would be fastest in broad reach. It should also be dangerous to run before the wind with the wind dead astern especially for for'n'aft rigged ships. Most ships would still tack while running with the wind.

The reason a faster speed would give better turning ability has to do with the hull. The ship turns by the rudder which acts in a way similar to an airfoil. The higher the speed of the water the higher the pressure difference on the rudder and the more turning force the hull achieves. Of course certain sail configurations may assist in the resistance from the wind to turning, but I don't know that much about that.
 
well, although your avarage landlubber would be ignorant of it, it would be nice to further improve realism. i'm sure that what determines the maximum angle to the wind has to be coded in somewhere. it's a simple matter of changing it, i think.

the reason why you are more manuevrable with battle-sails set is because there simply needs to be a balance between the two sail configurations. otherwise, the battle sails wouldn't be used at all. however, maybe the battle sails could find a new use when manuevrability is higher with full sail. avoiding damage from enemy fire by furling them, for instance. i do this quite often, as enemies tend to aim at the deck, often hitting the courses, which you can avoid if they are furled.
 
I think heeling and sailstate are cosmetic, so unchangable. Changing the ship's speed with the weather conditions might be possible, if somebody knows how to check in the code what kind of weather condition there is at any given moment.

I think the reason for the "low speed, high manoeuvrability" vs "high speed, low manoeuvrability" is to add a tactical decision into the game, even though it isn't realistic. Otherwise everybody would just be sailing at high speed all the time, making slow speed pretty much useless. I am looking at this from a gameplay point of view; realistically you are right, of course.

The AoP characters use the AoP animation. We don't know how to modify it.

Multiplayer? We can't do multiplayer? Don't count on us ever managing to do multiplayer. The game engine doesn't support it and we can't modify it.

Adding sails and masts to a model is pretty possible. Doing it INGAME is not. And adding a third sail command is not either. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":?" border="0" alt="unsure.gif" />

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->what you say about blocking is certainly interesting. maybe there could be a time-limit on blocking so you can only defend yourself against one or two blocks at a time. it would certainly make things more interesting and realistic.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Now where have I heard that idea before...? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/whistling.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":wp" border="0" alt="whistling.gif" />
I recall when I proposed that several times before, it was not met with much enthusiasm. "Would make the game too hard", was the most commonly heard argument.
 
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/duel_pa.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":ixi" border="0" alt="duel_pa.gif" />
the limited blocking would be cool. It really means though that when fighting multiple opponents, you have to give yourself more manuevering space to retreat or you would have to find a bottle neck. It would definately improve the strategy used in swordfights. You would have to pay more attention to timing your strikes and blocks and would make the retreat more important. I guess you could also do a fake attack by attacking and blocking halfway through and goad the enemy into committing to a block, then you time your next attack to strike when his block stops. So maybe there would be a small time before you could block again. Is it possible for the ai to use the retreat function? It could make for some more interesting fights. Perhaps you could try and add it so that like everything in the build mod you can turn it on and off. Wait, that's probably what you were going to do anyway wasn't it <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":rolleyes:" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" /> Man people can be pretty forgetful sometimes can't they.

About the animation; I found that only blaze devlin has different animation. He is really fast too and he has a really cool retreat when sword fighting.

I think that the real reason for "battle sails" has very much to do with what Morgan Terror said. It has a lot to with the damage to the sails. It was also used when the wind was strong. A strong wind can put a a lot of strain on the rigging if a lot of sail is set possibly even breaking lines and breaking masts and spars. And if you have full sails set to gain manueverability, it will mean little if your mainsails get shredded. Then you will basically be in battle sails but without the possibility of setting full sails and escaping. So I guess the gameplay could be benifited either way. It's just that it makes me feel too much like I'm driving a car when I have to slow down to turn faster (especially when I'm not going that fast in the first place). But whatever. It's still fun either way I think.

Oh and I thought of something else. Is it possible to make the ai use chain shot sometimes? That might make people more willing to use battle sails even if you are less manueverable.

(I can't wait to check out the War Fluyt. Then I can name it "Queen Ann's Revenge" and turn into blackbeard. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheeky" border="0" alt="icon_mrgreen1.gif" /> Are there any other "larger sized pirate ships" like possibly a descently heavy caravel or something like the War Fluyt that can get closer to the wind?. BTW, all the added ships in the game that I've seen so far are pretty sweet. I was thoroughly pleased when I was chasing a french merchant and trying to avoid a corvette only to find out the corvette was a fast merchant ship; then I took it and even more plunder! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/pirate_plain.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p3" border="0" alt="pirate_plain.gif" /> )
Oh and the smileys here are great.
 
as i have been plundering and looting many a french and dutch merchant ship a thought crossed my mind. with an empty hold would i have a faster speed, and when my holds are full with ill-gotten gains would my top speed be slower?
bc
 
there's a difference between this blocking idea and pieter's: with this one, you basically block to fend off an attack, once per attack, or if you're lucky, two. with the old idea, you would simply block a limited amount of time.

your ship's speed DOES decrease with more cargo. dumping stuff overboard increases speed as well.

enemies DO use chainshot, but only if they decide to flee. and even then, it's still quite rare. although i have seen an enemy use it when he was severely outnumbered but still chose to fight. besides that, chainshot is aimed at a random height. battle sails would be largely useless in this case. battle sails are only usefull against round shot and bombs, and maybe grape shot too, but i've never seen enemies use that.
 
<!--quoteo(post=199903:date=Jun 6 2007, 09:26 AM:name=morgan terror)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(morgan terror @ Jun 6 2007, 09:26 AM) [snapback]199903[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->there's a difference between this blocking idea and pieter's: with this one, you basically block to fend off an attack, once per attack, or if you're lucky, two. with the old idea, you would simply block a limited amount of time.

your ship's speed DOES decrease with more cargo. dumping stuff overboard increases speed as well.

enemies DO use chainshot, but only if they decide to flee. and even then, it's still quite rare. although i have seen an enemy use it when he was severely outnumbered but still chose to fight. besides that, chainshot is aimed at a random height. battle sails would be largely useless in this case. battle sails are only usefull against round shot and bombs, and maybe grape shot too, but i've never seen enemies use that.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
oh...thanks! been playing most of the game using a light MOW, MOW and ship of the line....just started using a corvette, frigate, and super frigate. all ships run when i battle with the heavies......never had to consider dumping cargo before:-O.....
bc
 
well, i rarely dump cargo myself. only in a persuit takes takes hours where 0.3 knot more or less is vital. in fact, using directsail, i managed to outrun a bermuda sloop with a lugger with only rations for a single day on board, and nothing else. i was literally sailing for my life. i love those black pearl/interceptor styled chases. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile2.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":))" border="0" alt="smile2.gif" /> they're absolutely nerve-racking!
 
And that's where it would be cool to have a ship rigged with studdingsails. If we cannot add an extra "set sail" trigger, we can still add the Stuns'ls booms and sails to go with the two triggers to a model. I think that the corvette would look amazing under a full spread and stuns'ls running 'afore the wind... <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

Just thought of something: debris nettings. If the time was found, these would be strung up topside to shelter the crew from falling spars and cordage during battle. Perhaps this would be something that you could buy at the store that would decrease crew damage suffered in battle. They would eventually wear out from use and you would have to buy it again. Say the nrrmal amount purchased is 50, each battle takes it down by five, so each battle decreases its effectiveness by 10%. What's more, perhaps we could make it so that if you go into battle under full sail, the sails suffer a 10% damage decrease, simulating the enemy using chain and grape to make up for their unwavering use of solid shot. This would make players want to set battle sail like they actually did in the day. Once you are under battle sails, you can use debris nets.
 
that would be neat. I bet there's some other ideas to use for upgrading ships functionally and not cosmetically.

Another idea would be that over time, your hull would gradually get filled up with barnacles and such and would gradually lose speed. This could either be another repair item, or more realistically, when you are on shore, you would talk to your officer and have the crew beach the ship for a careening. That would fix the speed and just take a certain amount of time to do. I don't know if this would make the game more fun or not though. Just an idea on the top of me head.
 
well, i suggested being able to throw out the anchor once. i hate crashing into a cliff because ou can't stop.
 
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