stock game comparison

[morgan terror]

for now, i'm back to playing the stock game for a bit, and there's a few key things i've noticed:

1: the escape from oxbay. there have been quite a few complaints about the escape having gotten way harder than it was. this is because in the stock game, the fort didn't actually attack you. only the ships. nowadays the fort opens fire right away. this should be turned back somehow, possibly by assigning the portugese nationality to the fort at the point where you escape, since i suspect that the original coding has long been lost.

2: ship battles. originally, ships fled way too late. maybe at a realistic time, but it was impractical. in the mods, ships flee way too early. of course, i could adjust the point at which they flee in my particular game, but it really disturbs the balance in battle overall. i mean, there's like 4 hardly damaged ships running away from ONE while they are just about equal in power, if they don't have the upper hand already. it would make battles better if the point at which enemies flee would be somewhat lower, though not as low as the stock game. another result of this would be that you can't sell as many captured ships or goods as you can now, reducing income.

3: damaged ships. in the stock game, sometimes the enemy ships had some damage in one particular area, but they where usually intact. nowadays every single ship has damage in all areas, and although this makes some sense, you'd think the captains would take some better care of their ships. i mean, it's not like everyone gets shot at on every voyage as soon as they leave port. it would be better, in my opinion, if only part of the ships where somewhat damaged in all areas, but others would be intact. another side effect of the all-present damage is that ships flee sooner, like mentioned before.

4: cannons. not a region for improvement, mind you. i've noticed that cannons used to have shorter range as their size went up. this didn't make sense, but it was done for game balance. of course, the whole idea of a bigger ship was that it's a more powerful one, so balance is nowadays better.

5: damage. in the stock game, a single broadside meant you where pretty much dead, or at least in trouble. now you can just go tanking through a huge barrage of shot. i think that this happens because the ships used to use bombs as their standard ammunition. now only cannonballs are being used, you recieve less damage, thus making it way easier to capture bigger ships. i can literally board anything with anything, because there is such a low risk of being sunk. making the actual boarding fights harder is not the best solution, it's making cannonfire more dangerous, like it used to be. that would solve the problem of climbing up way too fast. there are several ways to tackle this: either permanently enabling bombs as the main ammo, or: increasing the damage of cannonballs. the latter wouldn't work since it would mean that they would be equal to bombs, which they shouldn't be. a third option would be lowering ship hp overall. i'm afraid, however, that this would make fort battles insanely tough to do. but it's not like they're hard enough anyway once you have a manowar or two. also, you currently never buy a ship, or at least i don't. doing what i suggested would make buying a better ship more neccesary, and would increase repair costs, thus at least partially solving a big part of the money problem. all in all, removing bombs as ship ammo greatly knackered balance, and should be compensated somehow.

if these changes would be implemented, it will have some other consequences. battles would be more dangerous. it might be a good idea if you would meet less convoys. however, most of these aren't hostile anyway, so it probably doesn't matter. it would just mean a bit more fleeing and a bit less 'hey, let's take on that flotilla with our little sloop!' <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/w00t.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="w00t.gif" />: .

the changes would generate a good deal less income. with crew salary being as astronomical as it is now, which was done to compensate for too much income, it should be lowered again to compensate for the decrease in income. of course, this would require some testing to see how much of a problem it would really create.

i have nothing on swordfights, unfortunately. the only thing is that you couldn't find any better swords than the dragon's tongue in the stock game, which meant that you where getting yourself killed all the time at level 10 because your blocks didn't do jack shit. which was annoying, to say the least. this problem was overcompensated for and then readjusted to a reasonable level, for as far as i can remember, so no problems there.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Thanks a lot, Morgan. Above suggestions should certainly prove helpful and be looked into!

Re #1: The fort is French at that time, but France is NOT hostile to you personally. Sail out under a British flag and you'll be killed. Sail out under your own flag and you survive. Last time I did the escape from Oxbay in the Build 14 Alpha, I wasn't attacked by the fort at all.

The above might not apply entirely to Build 13. I distinctly remember having to hoist a French/Portuguese flag prior to leaving port at some point, but I don't remember if that was Pre Build 13, Build 13 Full or Build 13 Final. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mybad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="mybad.gif" />

 

[morgan terror]

ah, yes. my experiences in the 'current' situation where mostly from build 13 and from developements i remember seeing in topics on the forum. build 13 does have the oxbay problem.

anyway, of all things, the damage section is the most important to be tackled. i think that reenabling bombs might be the best solution, even though it's not the most preferable. a possibility might be not using bombs at all, but heated shot instead. by my knowledge, both forts and ships historically used this kind of ammo. damage stats would be the same. it would just be a cosmetic change for it to make sense.

on a sidenote, those stock game brigs look menacing... don't really know what it is, but if you see one coming straight at you, it get's on the nerves.

 

[zorglub]

I don't agree about bombs. That's something I found painfull in stock PotC, compared to Seadogs - you were forced to use this type of ammo as it was insanly strong. That with the Ship defense perks made it really unreallistic. I have read some records about<i> real </i>sea battles where an insane amount of ammo had been fired in both sides with actually very few damages/loss. Even the British fired against the hull rather than the sails mostly to hit the cannons and crew, not really for sinking - for what I've read.

About swords, if I remember well you can get a Maltese sword at Leviathan beach, or the Nicolas Sharp's saber with the Toff quest - as well than a squall if you kill Malcolm (don't think it's doable) or the Dark Teacher in the Animist quest.
Fighting are fairly easy at the begining (even a rapier will do!), if you don't try boarding superior ships. In stock PotC you always fully block an attack, unless your oponent has the Critical Hit perk. Most oponent won't have it if you haven't developped it yourself. Pistol are much more deadly in stock PotC (at high level, in the jungle look carefully how much bandits are carying big pistols before attacking...)
For my own experience, fighting was impossible on high level. In the Labyrinth I could only rely on the scrapper pistol and run with the remaining skeletons following me.


I wish you most luck with the stock game! Maybe you'll be able to give some advice about how we could change the standart main quest in Build 14 then...

 

[LarryHookins]

I remember everyone complaining that the damage done by cannons was unrealistically high, so they lowered it. There were some very vocal people in this particular issue. I didn't much care one way or the other, but I did post that lowering the damage to the point where a battle took 2 or more real time hours would make it unplayable. There were people who wanted just that.

If I didn't believe the ship to ship battles were well done and balanced, I'd be in there tweaking the heck out of that code. Most of the game for me is those battles.

I've already got enough problems being crippled by a single broadside. I'd prefer not to see the damage raised. And for God's sake, don't make bombs the standard ammo! If you want more damage per cannon, there's probably a tweak for it somewhere. If not, we can make one.

-----

The Too Much Money argument comes up periodically, and way too frequently for my tastes. There's nothing you can do to keep me from making money. Everything you DO try will probably make it worse. If it's causing you sleepless nights, I've got a couple of suggestions.

Since no one is interested in simply paying shares and dividing the loot to get rid of excess cash (and increase the player's personal wealth and fame), let's make the crew morale drop dramatically if you have a lot of money and aren't sharing it. That will FORCE the player to divide the loot. I'm tired of arguing that issue. Put a toggle on it because I have no intention of using it.

The only practical way to limit the amount of money a player can make is to limit the amount of money merchants have to buy goods. I've run across that limit even in Build 14, where I ran Gregor Samsa and the storekeeper completely out of money and had to sell to street merchants who paid less for goods. That used to be my biggest limit to making money in the earlier game.

Hook

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Ah; the discussions with Ron Losey! I remember. Actually, a lot of good came from those, I think, not least of all the improved weapon stats that now make the swordfights challenging again. According to Ron, ships were very hard to sink and battles would end more often with a ship being completely crippled or virtually crewless than by burning or sinking. This partly made it's way into modpacks too; sinking enemy ships really isn't all that easy anymore. Which means that you personally are much harder to sink too.

Since hardly anyone uses the "devide the loot" mode, maybe we should make it's existance more obvious? If I hear correctly, the game is actually a lot more balanced money-wise when using that and I must admit that personally I virtually never did. Of course getting a high fame isn't really useful in any way, so if we add a use for that, maybe that'll encourage people to use the "devide the loot" mode too.

While I'm at it, how about the crewmembers on shore mod? Does anyone actually use that. I think it should actually add a lot of interest to the game with the additional random fights you can encounter and the new characters you can meet, but I don't think anybody really knows about that mod either. Maybe we should add a reference to both the above mods in the tutorial?

In the Build 14 Alpha, enemy boarders should no longer have any money. That should decrease the amount of money you make to at least some extent. But when you get yourself a LoM and get promoted, you start earning wealth like crazy.

 

[Petros]

<!--quoteo(post=304232:date=Mar 2 2009, 03:16 PM:name=Pieter Boelen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pieter Boelen @ Mar 2 2009, 03:16 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=304232"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Since hardly anyone uses the "devide the loot" mode,<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Are Hook and I the only ones?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->While I'm at it, how about the crewmembers on shore mod? Does anyone actually use that.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Are you kidding, I won't go off with a treasure map without them.

Do remember me complaining about how code in B13 got changed so that you couldn't get your swords and equipment back from killed landing party members.
Took me a long time, as I don't know code, to be able to disable that in my game.
I posted what I did but don't know if anything came of it.

If it still is that way, perhaps that discourages folks from using them.



<!--quoteo(post=304205:date=Mar 2 2009, 01:53 PM:name=Hook)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hook @ Mar 2 2009, 01:53 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=304205"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->...Since no one is interested in simply paying shares and dividing the loot to get rid of excess cash (and increase the player's personal wealth and fame), let's make the crew morale drop dramatically if you have a lot of money and aren't sharing it. That will FORCE the player to divide the loot. I'm tired of arguing that issue. Put a toggle on it because I have no intention of using it.

...Hook<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

That sounds like the way I usually play. I often start as a merchant with barque or caravel.
I pay salary, get two or three trade missions under my belt, hire some officers, gain some experience, soon get tired of being attacked by pirates, and then I go Privateer.

Everyone gets a share and I don't go back to salary ... until I start another game.

 

[zorglub]

<!--quoteo(post=304232:date=Mar 2 2009, 05:16 PM:name=Pieter Boelen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pieter Boelen @ Mar 2 2009, 05:16 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=304232"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Since hardly anyone uses the "devide the loot" mode<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I don't use it much only because I have never the time to go very far in a game, otherwise I like it very much, even thought I think both option will have to be improved at some moment. Sometimes I chose it only not to have the crew asking for his salary during some testing... I doubt that so few people would be using it, Pieter. Unless they haven't found the option yet. Honestly, what kind of pirate will pay his crew with monthly salary?...

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->While I'm at it, how about the crewmembers on shore mod? Does anyone actually use that. I think it should actually add a lot of interest to the game with the additional random fights you can encounter and the new characters you can meet, but I don't think anybody really knows about that mod either. Maybe we should add a reference to both the above mods in the tutorial?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I use them very oftently. Even if it's not top-priority, I'm actually re-writting this code together with the officer one, so it might improve (or worsen?...)
Why would people not be aware of this mod? Onboard your ship your crew is quite clear about it.

 

[LarryHookins]

You have to pay your crew a salary if you're playing a merchant. You just don't make enough money to keep their morale up if you're paying shares. One long cargo quest (Grenada to St. Martin, for example) can leave you with a mutinous crew. Once you start privateering, paying shares is a good way to go.

Getting money from dead enemy boarders is almost the least amount of money you make during the boarding process, right after selling off the junk blades you collect. Unfortunately, the captain is only given his money at the enemy captain dialog, so killing him in the cabin during the boarding fight doesn't get you much. From what I've seen, the captain is always one of the cabin boarders. If you actually fight him, or kill him later in your hold, you get a good amount of money. You're also given a small amount of money for defeating the ship after you go back to sea, and you get some pocket change from selling the enemy ship and a bit more from the cargo it carried. Often the cargo is worth more than the ship. If it was a quest from the governor, he gives you an almost reasonable amount of gold when you report back to him if the ship was big enough, much more than the pittance he pays for doing the main quest.

Hauling cargo is relatively safe and shouldn't pay much, and it doesn't. Defeating enemy ships is dangerous and should pay accordingly, and it does. Doing the main quest really doesn't pay enough to pay your crew unless you're also hauling cargo at the same time.

Virgile Boon, and a few other quest characters, used to have a million gold on them if you killed them. This was a nice windfall for a starting player if he could figure out how to kill Boon and get away. Now he's got 20K on him and only a few guards will go after you, ruining the fun of figuring out how to get him killed and looted and get away alive. The gate guards ignore you if you kill him now where before everyone went after you. This used to be a great way to win this quest, fun and profitable. Now it's better just to let pirates sink him. The French will go hostile either way.

Once upon a time there were different weapon choices for different fighting styles. Now, with the "new improved" blade damage, one hit kills (even with 10 HP per character level) and virtually useless blocking, you grab the sword with the highest pierce and damage and sell the rest as junk. The prices are such that a starting character can afford any sword available at a merchant, and if you don't have enough gold on you, sell a bandage. Don't have an extra bandage? Look in the chests on your ship.

Armor still has decent prices. A starting player can't afford gold armor for a while. Other items are priced high enough to make the player work for them. If a Bosun's Choice was still 35K, it would be a lot harder to equip your boarding locker with them. Now, it's just a matter of finding them at the merchants.

Some of the guns have decent prices. But since I don't use one myself much, and don't allow my officers to have them because they end up shooting civilians, the only real use I have for them is to equip the boarding locker, or to sell as loot if I'm not going to do any boardings any time soon.

Doing stuff that can get you killed needs to pay a lot. If swordfighting doesn't pay enough, you're better off rummaging through chests because the payoff there can be fairly high and you aren't as likely to croak.

The problem isn't that the players get too much money. It's that they don't have enough to do with it when they get it, and aren't penalized for having too much. Limiting the amount of inventory they can have is just an annoyance, and won't fix the problem. Trust me, I can get around that as well. Putting a cap on the amount of gold they can have is even worse, and I can get around that one too.

If people think it's necessary to do something about excess money, lowering the crew morale to the point they might mutiny if the captain has too much excess gold will force the player to either pay to raise morale or divide the loot. Getting more NPCs to attack an overly wealthy player is another idea I've mentioned in the past. We've already got pickpockets, although I turned that off in my game in Build 14 due to the overly high chance of getting killed trying to get your money back.

Most of this is just going to be annoying for many players, but should probably be available as an option for those who aren't already dividing the loot. Just telling people to divide the loot doesn't work, so we'll force them.

For me, the only reason I don't like having more than 10 million is that the numbers overflow the space on the screen available for them. Then I'll divide the loot. Twice, the first time with just a couple hundred thousand (the rest in my cabin chest), the second time with the remainder because the first time you don't get any personal wealth from it due to the way the division is calculated. Then I go back to paying salary, by talking to an officer because the option doesn't work in the pay screen.

And remember, it's still a pirate game. People expect ships to sink, and swordfights to happen frequently. And rewards should always be equal to the risk you take.

Hook

 

[Pieter Boelen]

<!--quoteo(post=304270:date=Mar 3 2009, 01:09 AM:name=a simple virtual sailor)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (a simple virtual sailor @ Mar 3 2009, 01:09 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=304270"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't use it much only because I have never the time to go very far in a game, otherwise I like it very much, even thought I think both option will have to be improved at some moment. Sometimes I chose it only not to have the crew asking for his salary during some testing... I doubt that so few people would be using it, Pieter. Unless they haven't found the option yet. Honestly, what kind of pirate will pay his crew with monthly salary?...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Agreed on all accounts. Though I wonder how obvious the option is to people who don't know it exists in the first place. Maybe we could add some dialog about it? Or maybe we just need a <i>proper tutorial</i> for the mod.

<!--quoteo(post=304270:date=Mar 3 2009, 01:09 AM:name=a simple virtual sailor)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (a simple virtual sailor @ Mar 3 2009, 01:09 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=304270"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I use them very oftently. Even if it's not top-priority, I'm actually re-writting this code together with the officer one, so it might improve (or worsen?...)
Why would people not be aware of this mod? Onboard your ship your crew is quite clear about it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->True; I think this particular mod is indeed quite obvious since visiting your ship's deck on setting sail and landing is default.
What exactly are you doing with the mod? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="icon_mrgreen1.gif" />

<!--quoteo(post=304339:date=Mar 3 2009, 08:21 AM:name=Hook)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hook @ Mar 3 2009, 08:21 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=304339"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You have to pay your crew a salary if you're playing a merchant. You just don't make enough money to keep their morale up if you're paying shares. One long cargo quest (Grenada to St. Martin, for example) can leave you with a mutinous crew. Once you start privateering, paying shares is a good way to go.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->That's good. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

<!--quoteo(post=304339:date=Mar 3 2009, 08:21 AM:name=Hook)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hook @ Mar 3 2009, 08:21 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=304339"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Getting money from dead enemy boarders is almost the least amount of money you make during the boarding process, right after selling off the junk blades you collect. Unfortunately, the captain is only given his money at the enemy captain dialog, so killing him in the cabin during the boarding fight doesn't get you much. From what I've seen, the captain is always one of the cabin boarders. If you actually fight him, or kill him later in your hold, you get a good amount of money. You're also given a small amount of money for defeating the ship after you go back to sea, and you get some pocket change from selling the enemy ship and a bit more from the cargo it carried. Often the cargo is worth more than the ship. If it was a quest from the governor, he gives you an almost reasonable amount of gold when you report back to him if the ship was big enough, much more than the pittance he pays for doing the main quest.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Is that good or bad? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":?" border="0" alt="unsure.gif" />

 

[Pieter Boelen]

<!--quoteo(post=304339:date=Mar 3 2009, 08:21 AM:name=Hook)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hook @ Mar 3 2009, 08:21 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=304339"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hauling cargo is relatively safe and shouldn't pay much, and it doesn't. Defeating enemy ships is dangerous and should pay accordingly, and it does. Doing the main quest really doesn't pay enough to pay your crew unless you're also hauling cargo at the same time.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->That's good too. You sure about the main quest not paying enough? I know that I used to play the main quest without doing any side stuff. Balancing might have changed since then though. 't Was a long time ago. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mybad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="mybad.gif" />

<!--quoteo(post=304339:date=Mar 3 2009, 08:21 AM:name=Hook)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hook @ Mar 3 2009, 08:21 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=304339"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Virgile Boon, and a few other quest characters, used to have a million gold on them if you killed them. This was a nice windfall for a starting player if he could figure out how to kill Boon and get away. Now he's got 20K on him and only a few guards will go after you, ruining the fun of figuring out how to get him killed and looted and get away alive. The gate guards ignore you if you kill him now where before everyone went after you. This used to be a great way to win this quest, fun and profitable. Now it's better just to let pirates sink him. The French will go hostile either way.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->We might want to (partly?) re-establish that then. A million's perhaps a bit much, but it does make for an interesting challenge. I seem to have noticed that the town guards are not doing a good job of defending their people anymore. I can attack random people in town and all the random people will attack me, but not the town guards. Also, when I switch locations, all is OK again. That's not quite right, is it? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/piratesing.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="piratesing.gif" />

<!--quoteo(post=304339:date=Mar 3 2009, 08:21 AM:name=Hook)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hook @ Mar 3 2009, 08:21 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=304339"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Once upon a time there were different weapon choices for different fighting styles. Now, with the "new improved" blade damage, one hit kills (even with 10 HP per character level) and virtually useless blocking, you grab the sword with the highest pierce and damage and sell the rest as junk. The prices are such that a starting character can afford any sword available at a merchant, and if you don't have enough gold on you, sell a bandage. Don't have an extra bandage? Look in the chests on your ship.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->There were different weapon choices for different fighting styles? Uh? I though in stock game up to Build 13, basically the more expensive weapons were simply better and you'd get so much HP that you could hardly die yourself and could kill enemies in no-time. At least that's the problem I thought we were having. So then Ron Losey adjusted the weapon values with the intention that you do get different weapon choices for different fighting styles. And now you're telling me that doesn't work either. Agh! Rock and hard place here. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mybad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="mybad.gif" />
Anyway, will need some work apparently. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/modding.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="modding.gif" />

<!--quoteo(post=304339:date=Mar 3 2009, 08:21 AM:name=Hook)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hook @ Mar 3 2009, 08:21 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=304339"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Doing stuff that can get you killed needs to pay a lot. If swordfighting doesn't pay enough, you're better off rummaging through chests because the payoff there can be fairly high and you aren't as likely to croak.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Absolutely true. Maybe it's too easy to find valuable stuff at random too?

<!--quoteo(post=304339:date=Mar 3 2009, 08:21 AM:name=Hook)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hook @ Mar 3 2009, 08:21 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=304339"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The problem isn't that the players get too much money. It's that they don't have enough to do with it when they get it, and aren't penalized for having too much. Limiting the amount of inventory they can have is just an annoyance, and won't fix the problem. Trust me, I can get around that as well. Putting a cap on the amount of gold they can have is even worse, and I can get around that one too.

If people think it's necessary to do something about excess money, lowering the crew morale to the point they might mutiny if the captain has too much excess gold will force the player to either pay to raise morale or divide the loot. Getting more NPCs to attack an overly wealthy player is another idea I've mentioned in the past. We've already got pickpockets, although I turned that off in my game in Build 14 due to the overly high chance of getting killed trying to get your money back.

Most of this is just going to be annoying for many players, but should probably be available as an option for those who aren't already dividing the loot. Just telling people to divide the loot doesn't work, so we'll force them.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->That all sounds pretty good, really. The lowering of the morale certainly would make sense. And if swordfights are actually hard, then increasing the number of enemies as your wealth increases would make sense too. Then the game actually becomes harder, the more succesful you become. I don't think it'd so annoying either. I recall last time I was actually playing the game, you'd actually welcome a challenge in the later game because things were just getting too easy. Which shouldn't be happening, of course. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mybad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="mybad.gif" />

<!--quoteo(post=304339:date=Mar 3 2009, 08:21 AM:name=Hook)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hook @ Mar 3 2009, 08:21 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=304339"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Twice, the first time with just a couple hundred thousand (the rest in my cabin chest), the second time with the remainder because the first time you don't get any personal wealth from it due to the way the division is calculated. Then I go back to paying salary, by talking to an officer because the option doesn't work in the pay screen.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->What the cr*p times two? You don't get wealth the first time and the option in the pay screen doesn't work? Both REALLY not good. Need to be fixed then. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/modding.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="modding.gif" />

<!--quoteo(post=304339:date=Mar 3 2009, 08:21 AM:name=Hook)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hook @ Mar 3 2009, 08:21 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=304339"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And remember, it's still a pirate game. People expect ships to sink, and swordfights to happen frequently. And rewards should always be equal to the risk you take.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Absolutely agreed. Ideally, you shouldn't be able to make too much money unless you start pirating or become a succesful privateer.

 

[LarryHookins]

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Is that good or bad?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Neither, it's just how the game works. Trying to limit the money the dead boarders have isn't an issue. Looks like soldiers already have about 10 gold, but pirates still carry enough to make looting them worthwhile. BTW, you don't even get that if you have auto looting turned on. Make it low enough and it's not worth taking the time to loot corpses.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You sure about the main quest not paying enough?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You might be able to work it with the lugger and it's tiny crew, especially if you don't have officers. But if you have a larger ship (I prefer a schooner) and a few officers, the cost goes up. How much does the main quest pay per month anyway? I've seen 20K salary payments recently, and that probably doesn't include everything... like your own pay... I don't know if it includes the officer pay. Then you have to buy food and ammo and repair your ship occasionally.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I seem to have noticed that the town guards are not doing a good job of defending their people anymore. I can attack random people in town and all the random people will attack me, but not the town guards. Also, when I switch locations, all is OK again. That's not quite right, is it?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't know what's with the various town guards. I've noticed there are two different kinds. I haven't researched them yet. As for switching locations, that's intentional and even mentioned by one of the Enc_Walkers who advises you about it. When trying to escape after killing Boone all the officers everywhere were hostile. Made for an interesting situation.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I though in stock game up to Build 13, basically the more expensive weapons were simply better and you'd get so much HP that you could hardly die yourself and could kill enemies in no-time.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
When I play Build 13-9, I don't have to worry about blocking unless I'm fighting two more enemies or I notice I'm taking damage, which happens occasionally. In Build 14 I don't have to worry about blocking at all, because using it is the quickest possible way to get killed. I used to like the Silverleaf sword because it had decent block on it. The replacement doesn't kill the enemies quickly enough and the block doesn't protect you. I think the overall effect was the opposite of what was intended. Fights lasted longer in Build 13-9, too.

I like the effect that fighting more than one or two enemies in an open area will get you killed. What I don't like is dying in one hit while blocking with a sword with 95% block.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Maybe it's too easy to find valuable stuff at random too?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're going in the wrong direction. You still don't find much valuable stuff in chests, but you can find a lot of cheap stuff. If you take away too much from the chests, they won't be worth bothering with at all. As it is, after a certain level I don't go out of my way to check them.

It would be interesting if books wouldn't even be sold by the merchants (except maybe a specialized bookseller who is hard to find) and you could only find them in chests. Up to you if a merchant will buy a book.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And if swordfights are actually hard, then increasing the number of enemies as your wealth increases would make sense too. Then the game actually becomes harder, the more succesful you become.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Right now you can't fight more than one or two enemies by yourself. They still have to come at you one at a time, just increase the frequency. And the game should become harder by the level of your opponents going up, which is generally happening. This should also be dependent on your luck skill, with higher luck meaning less skilled enemies. This is also happening to the best of my knowledge.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I recall last time I was actually playing the game, you'd actually welcome a challenge in the later game because things were just getting too easy. Which shouldn't be happening, of course.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You weren't fighting 700-1000 HP enemy boarders with the overpowered toughness perk, were you? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What the cr*p times two? You don't get wealth the first time and the option in the pay screen doesn't work? Both REALLY not good. Need to be fixed then.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think what happened there was that I was trying to get rid of 10 million gold, and my officers came in for a huge share leaving none for me. Not really a major problem and after the second divide I had 1.2 million to start my next expedition. Heck, I could have divided the loot again!

I don't know why the pay screen wouldn't let me go back to paying salary. It's a bug, but there's a workaround for it, just talk to an officer.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Ideally, you shouldn't be able to make too much money unless you start pirating or become a succesful privateer.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The game is working fairly well for that at the moment. What I lose in income from swords I make up for in income from bandages. My current level 12 character has been mostly trading, doing just a little privateering, and doesn't have quite a million yet. I think almost half of that was from capturing ships. He's still a midshipman. He's also working his way through the main quest.

Hook

 

[Pieter Boelen]

<!--quoteo(post=304375:date=Mar 3 2009, 12:55 PM:name=Hook)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hook @ Mar 3 2009, 12:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=304375"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You might be able to work it with the lugger and it's tiny crew, especially if you don't have officers. But if you have a larger ship (I prefer a schooner) and a few officers, the cost goes up. How much does the main quest pay per month anyway? I've seen 20K salary payments recently, and that probably doesn't include everything... like your own pay... I don't know if it includes the officer pay. Then you have to buy food and ammo and repair your ship occasionally.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I recall the officer pay was greatly increased since last time I played, so my recollections aren't very up-to-date anymore. I used to like sailing a Brig or even a Corvette or Frigate. I really need to <i>play</i> the game again. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mybad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="mybad.gif" />

<!--quoteo(post=304375:date=Mar 3 2009, 12:55 PM:name=Hook)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hook @ Mar 3 2009, 12:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=304375"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't know what's with the various town guards. I've noticed there are two different kinds. I haven't researched them yet. As for switching locations, that's intentional and even mentioned by one of the Enc_Walkers who advises you about it. When trying to escape after killing Boone all the officers everywhere were hostile. Made for an interesting situation.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I'm not sure if it's intentional that everybody goes friendly again when you switch locations. Doesn't seem right to me and I'm pretty sure it didn't use to be so either. In the random house owners' dialog, you can sort out your relations with the town guards, but that's pretty useless if they would turn friendly already by going into the house at all! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/piratesing.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="piratesing.gif" />

There's something quite wrong with the relations. Guards don't defend the civilians, civilians don't defend the guards, nobody cares whether you're an enemy to the crown, sneaking into an enemy town is perfectly safe, etc.

If you attack somebody in town, the whole town should remain hostile with you until you leave the island or sort out your relations with the guards using the house owner dialog. That'd make you think twice before attacking anyone. If your fame is high enough and you are in a hostile town, there should be a chance that you're recognized and are attacked by the town guards. That would make sneaking into enemy towns more dangerous.

I also noticed there's some code for a "cloack". If you wear the "animist3" model (I think), guards are much less likely to notice you at night. This helps in sneaking into towns at night. However, no use is being made of this functionality at all.

BTW: If a pickpocket steals your money, I don't think the rest of the townfolk should defend him when you... try to get it back. Or at least not <i>always</i>.

<!--quoteo(post=304375:date=Mar 3 2009, 12:55 PM:name=Hook)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hook @ Mar 3 2009, 12:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=304375"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->When I play Build 13-9, I don't have to worry about blocking unless I'm fighting two more enemies or I notice I'm taking damage, which happens occasionally. In Build 14 I don't have to worry about blocking at all, because using it is the quickest possible way to get killed. I used to like the Silverleaf sword because it had decent block on it. The replacement doesn't kill the enemies quickly enough and the block doesn't protect you. I think the overall effect was the opposite of what was intended. Fights lasted longer in Build 13-9, too.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->As far as I'm aware, the only thing that was changed was the values for the blades in initItems.c, but nothing else. It'd be easy to reset to the Build 13 values. The modified values were actually intended only for testing, but no test results have ever come up, so no modifications have ever been made. Looks like we might want to look into that. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mybad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="mybad.gif" />

<!--quoteo(post=304375:date=Mar 3 2009, 12:55 PM:name=Hook)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hook @ Mar 3 2009, 12:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=304375"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I like the effect that fighting more than one or two enemies in an open area will get you killed. What I don't like is dying in one hit while blocking with a sword with 95% block.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I don't like that either. And that happens if you ARE blocking? That's not right! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/piratesing.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="piratesing.gif" />

<!--quoteo(post=304375:date=Mar 3 2009, 12:55 PM:name=Hook)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hook @ Mar 3 2009, 12:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=304375"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You're going in the wrong direction. You still don't find much valuable stuff in chests, but you can find a lot of cheap stuff. If you take away too much from the chests, they won't be worth bothering with at all. As it is, after a certain level I don't go out of my way to check them.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->True. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":?" border="0" alt="unsure.gif" />

<!--quoteo(post=304375:date=Mar 3 2009, 12:55 PM:name=Hook)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hook @ Mar 3 2009, 12:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=304375"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It would be interesting if books wouldn't even be sold by the merchants (except maybe a specialized bookseller who is hard to find) and you could only find them in chests. Up to you if a merchant will buy a book.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Indeed. And that's easily changed in initItems.c. A bookseller would be fun too. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="icon_mrgreen1.gif" />

<!--quoteo(post=304375:date=Mar 3 2009, 12:55 PM:name=Hook)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hook @ Mar 3 2009, 12:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=304375"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You weren't fighting 700-1000 HP enemy boarders with the overpowered toughness perk, were you? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="smile.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I did have that sometimes and indeed didn't survive. But that was when attacking way too big ships without using grapeshot. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mybad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="mybad.gif" />

<!--quoteo(post=304375:date=Mar 3 2009, 12:55 PM:name=Hook)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hook @ Mar 3 2009, 12:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=304375"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think what happened there was that I was trying to get rid of 10 million gold, and my officers came in for a huge share leaving none for me. Not really a major problem and after the second divide I had 1.2 million to start my next expedition. Heck, I could have divided the loot again!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Don't you keep a certain percentage by default and have the REST divided? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/diomed.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":dio" border="0" alt="diomed.gif" />

<!--quoteo(post=304375:date=Mar 3 2009, 12:55 PM:name=Hook)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hook @ Mar 3 2009, 12:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=304375"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't know why the pay screen wouldn't let me go back to paying salary. It's a bug, but there's a workaround for it, just talk to an officer.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I think you can only go back to paying salary if you have just divided the loot. Otherwise you could "cheat" your crew. Does it work if you do it then?

<!--quoteo(post=304375:date=Mar 3 2009, 12:55 PM:name=Hook)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hook @ Mar 3 2009, 12:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=304375"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The game is working fairly well for that at the moment. What I lose in income from swords I make up for in income from bandages. My current level 12 character has been mostly trading, doing just a little privateering, and doesn't have quite a million yet. I think almost half of that was from capturing ships. He's still a midshipman. He's also working his way through the main quest.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Are bandages that common and valuable? They shouldn't be, should they? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":?" border="0" alt="unsure.gif" />

 

[morgan terror]

what i had in mind was not realism, but gameplay. i actually prefer using regular cannonballs over bombs because they have that all-important extra bit of range. it allows me to stay away from those enemy broadsides. then, i would try to make the enemy flee, and head in for the kill, but as i already said, they often fled way too late, mostly when the ship wasn't worth capturing anymore anyway. the point was that if you made a mistake here, you where dead. this does, however, lead to a repetetive kind of battles where you'd be sailing ahead of the enemy firing your broadsides at them, waiting for them to make a run for it or sink. in that respect, reducing damage did make the battles more interesting.

if the other suggestions can fix it anyway, even better. swordfights where indeed way too hard at a higher level in the stock game, but they are too easy in the mods. agreed on that point. i wouldn't mind the fights being slightly harder, but they shouldn't get too tough. you fight two enemies at a time really often in the game, so it shouldn't become impossible. it continues to happen in a well-defendable spot. of course, if it's possible to kill someone off before the second enemy arrives, it's no problem. what might be a good idea is that you need to directly face an enemy with a block for the block to actually work. this would make being attacked from both sides extremely dangerous, but it would not make being attacked by two foes from one side impossible. i have no idea how this should be implemented though.

personally, i never devided the loot. i liked my money. i've always focused on battles, military career and quests instead. it worked well enough.

i have used the option to take crew with me on land lately. however, i found the micro-management regarding their initial lack of weapons really tedious. it was uneccesary. but i suppose they would have had weapons if i had put something in the weapons locker, which is even more micro-management that i didn't want to bother with. it's a nice feature, but tedious.

in the game Tortuga, you had a certain system for handling the loot. over time, crew morale would steadily drop. if it got at a certain point, that would be the signal to devide the loot at a friendly port. basically, this is how it already works in PotC, but it's not as obvious. in tortuga, the drop in morale happened fairly quick. a voyage from one side of the ocean to another could already mean you had to devide. i suppose i could have a go at the deviding system once i can install the mods again.

 

[zorglub]

<!--quoteo(post=304381:date=Mar 3 2009, 09:33 AM:name=Pieter Boelen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pieter Boelen @ Mar 3 2009, 09:33 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=304381"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=304375:date=Mar 3 2009, 12:55 PM:name=Hook)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hook @ Mar 3 2009, 12:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=304375"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
As for switching locations, that's intentional and even mentioned by one of the Enc_Walkers who advises you about it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I'm not sure if it's intentional that everybody goes friendly again when you switch locations. Doesn't seem right to me and I'm pretty sure it didn't use to be so either. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Hook is right, this have been the case for a long time, it is in Build 13 for example and it sure was intentionnal.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There's something quite wrong with the relations. Guards don't defend the civilians, civilians don't defend the guards, nobody cares whether you're an enemy to the crown, sneaking into an enemy town is perfectly safe, etc.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->In some pre-build 13 version, there were a cool feature that made guards attack whoever would be fighting, as fighting in the street is forbidden - I liked it, but it was removed in favor of coward guards that doesn't make a move to protect you. However, in Build 14 a8 they now absolutly don't care at all about anything, unless they are personnally attacked. In some location, there used to be a lot of soldiers spamming over and over when you had launch the alarm, not anymore.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=304375:date=Mar 3 2009, 12:55 PM:name=Hook)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hook @ Mar 3 2009, 12:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=304375"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It would be interesting if books wouldn't even be sold by the merchants (except maybe a specialized bookseller who is hard to find) and you could only find them in chests. Up to you if a merchant will buy a book.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Indeed. And that's easily changed in initItems.c. A bookseller would be fun too. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="icon_mrgreen1.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I like the idea as well ; however, in stead of removing completly the books from normal merchants, I would prefer them to have limited sets of each items type rather than thousands of different things - that could mean you could met occasionnally a merchant selling 1 or even 2 books, but never a merchant with hundreds of swords, and thousands of idols, jewellery, and books.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

<!--quoteo(post=304388:date=Mar 3 2009, 02:02 PM:name=Morgan Terror)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Morgan Terror @ Mar 3 2009, 02:02 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=304388"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->what might be a good idea is that you need to directly face an enemy with a block for the block to actually work. this would make being attacked from both sides extremely dangerous, but it would not make being attacked by two foes from one side impossible. i have no idea how this should be implemented though.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->That would make sense, but I have no idea how to do it either. Though it might be possible calculate the attack angle based on the enemy and attack locations and compare that to the attack's view angle to define whether a block should be effective or not. Probably too complicated for me to try though. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mybad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="mybad.gif" />

I also once has the suggestion of making blocks work only for a short amount of time by adding an event handler of some kind that makes a block ineffective after two seconds or so, unless you block again.

<!--quoteo(post=304388:date=Mar 3 2009, 02:02 PM:name=Morgan Terror)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Morgan Terror @ Mar 3 2009, 02:02 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=304388"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i have used the option to take crew with me on land lately. however, i found the micro-management regarding their initial lack of weapons really tedious. it was uneccesary. but i suppose they would have had weapons if i had put something in the weapons locker, which is even more micro-management that i didn't want to bother with. it's a nice feature, but tedious.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Putting weapons in the weapons locker is a lot more managable than giving weapons to each and every crewmember manually though. I'm not sure if crewmembers on shore actually make use of the weaponslocker. If not, they should. Would save a lot of trouble! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/piratesing.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="piratesing.gif" />

 

[Pieter Boelen]

<!--quoteo(post=304393:date=Mar 3 2009, 02:06 PM:name=a simple virtual sailor)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (a simple virtual sailor @ Mar 3 2009, 02:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=304393"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hook is right, this have been the case for a long time, it is in Build 13 for example and it sure was intentionnal.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->If it IS intentional, then I want it intentionally reset as per my suggestions to posts back! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/whippa.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="whippa.gif" />

<!--quoteo(post=304393:date=Mar 3 2009, 02:06 PM:name=a simple virtual sailor)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (a simple virtual sailor @ Mar 3 2009, 02:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=304393"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In some pre-build 13 version, there were a cool feature that made guards attack whoever would be fighting, as fighting in the street is forbidden - I liked it, but it was removed in favor of coward guards that doesn't make a move to protect you. However, in Build 14 a8 they now absolutly don't care at all about anything, unless they are personnally attacked. In some location, there used to be a lot of soldiers spamming over and over when you had launch the alarm, not anymore.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->That was in there? How come it disappeared? I bloody compiled that modpack and never deleted that on purpose. That would be cool. I'd really like active soldiers! And they should be dangerous too! No more wussies! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="icon_mrgreen1.gif" />

<!--quoteo(post=304393:date=Mar 3 2009, 02:06 PM:name=a simple virtual sailor)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (a simple virtual sailor @ Mar 3 2009, 02:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=304393"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I like the idea as well ; however, in stead of removing completly the books from normal merchants, I would prefer them to have limited sets of each items type rather than thousands of different things - that could mean you could met occasionnally a merchant selling 1 or even 2 books, but never a merchant with hundreds of swords, and thousands of idols, jewellery, and books.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Agreed; merchants should only have a couple of different items in each category, making any special item you want hard to find in every case.

 

[LarryHookins]

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I used to like sailing a Brig or even a Corvette or Frigate.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I can defeat a corvette and usually a frigate with my schooner. At some point I find a corvette I like and transfer my flag to it, keeping the schooner as backup, even if it sits in port the whole time. At least once that saved me from a stalemate where my ship and the enemy were both dismasted. When the schooner arrived, the enemy surrendered, and I was able to get the schooner to sail close enough that I could swap ships and boarded the surrendered enemy. I've seen paydays of 120K or more with those two ships.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The modified values were actually intended only for testing<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In that case I'll eventually look into it. I like the new names for the swords.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And that happens if you ARE blocking? That's not right!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
My level 10 character had someone come at him, raised the sword to block, got killed in one hit while blocking. This happens a lot. Apparently the game compares the fencing levels of both characters along with the piercing and blocking of both swords, and will apply critical hit. And all with 10 HP per level.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I did have that sometimes and indeed didn't survive. But that was when attacking way too big ships without using grapeshot.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You could get boarders with those HP whether you used grapeshot or not. Part of it was a bug in my boarding code that didn't reduce the enemy HP properly according to the relative morale of both ships.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Don't you keep a certain percentage by default and have the REST divided?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Right, but it looks like you only get what's left over after paying your officers. The code is fairly complicated and probably contains a few bugs.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think you can only go back to paying salary if you have just divided the loot. Otherwise you could "cheat" your crew. Does it work if you do it then?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's what I was trying to do at the time. I was still in the loanshark's office after dividing the loot. I never tried "cheating" it, but most of my crew deserted after going back to salary. That part probably works.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Are bandages that common and valuable? They shouldn't be, should they?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Most chests will have one or two. They're worth about what a sword costs. They're expensive enough to make life difficult for a beginning character if he needs to buy some, but they're a good source of income at the beginning of the game.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->a repetetive kind of battles where you'd be sailing ahead of the enemy firing your broadsides at them, waiting for them to make a run for it or sink.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ships usually decide to run when their morale gets to low, and most ships start at poor, one above that. Sometimes they don't run then, and I've been attacked by ships with awful morale. Probably depends on the captain's leadership and iron will perk. I've seen a lot of pirates with heroic morale, and they may not ever make a break for it.

Battles between ships of a similar class seem to work well. If you want a real thrill, take on a 100 gun ship with a 32 gun corvette. I doubt you'll find that so boring. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i have used the option to take crew with me on land lately. however, i found the micro-management regarding their initial lack of weapons really tedious. it was uneccesary. but i suppose they would have had weapons if i had put something in the weapons locker<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Just dump excess good swords in the weapons locker when you visit the cabin. Eventually you replace them with better swords. I've seen instances where my boarders apparently looted corpses, because extra stuff appears in the locker. Either that or it's a bug that I haven't found yet. Besides, you start off with 12 cutlasses from the tutorial, so they should never be weaponless.

Is the process of taking crewmen on land bug free at the moment? I remember having problems with patrols when I tried it before... the patrols were buggy, don't remember the details.

It sounds like Tortuga doesn't have a salary system at all, and you're always dividing the loot. As far as I can tell, the salary/divide the loot system we're using works well.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I like the idea as well ; however, in stead of removing completly the books from normal merchants, I would prefer them to have limited sets of each items type rather than thousands of different things - that could mean you could met occasionnally a merchant selling 1 or even 2 books, but never a merchant with hundreds of swords, and thousands of idols, jewellery, and books.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It seems like the stuff a trader carries is based on his level and little else. Most of them seem to have too much junk at higher levels. It would be better if they were more selective on stuff they carried.

My idea of having the merchants not sell books is that you'd have to decide whether or not to keep one you found because it might be useful later, even if it hurt your current stats. I guess you could put a "harmful" book in your weapons locker until you needed it for an officer or yourself later. Currently I only pick up books I intend to use or give to an officer immediately. If I couldn't buy the same book at a merchant when needed, I'd keep a lot more books.

Hook

 

[Pieter Boelen]

While we're having an enthusiastic discussion anyway, does anyone think there should be a distinction between crew morale and crew health? Right now, if there's not enough food, morale drops and you get a mutiny. If morale is low, crew fights less enthusiastically in a battle. However, morale also depends on various non-food related things. It doesn't make much sense to me that a crew would fight less enthusiastic in a battle, since the alternative is dying. Even if you're unhappy, you'd fight for your life, wouldn't you? Unless you're <i>completely</i> depressed... <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mybad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="mybad.gif" />

What if morale depends on mainly money-related issues and can cause a mutiny and crew health would depend mainly on food/rum/water/medicines/doctor and can cause mainly death (and also morale drops, of course). But crew health influences the fighting enthusiasm and morale influences the manoeuvrability. This might also give the doctor and medicine a purpose, which is really quite necessary because right now it's all pretty useless. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mybad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="mybad.gif" />
[Oh! And carpenters, bricks and gold goods should get their appropriate uses too!]

 

[LarryHookins]

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->merchants should only have a couple of different items in each category, making any special item you want hard to find in every case.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Special items are damned hard to find already. I sailed to 4 different islands before I was able to get a chronometer and sextant once. Even finding an enhanced compass can be difficult, as they're normally only available at sneaky traders until a high level. If you don't buy the masterwork spyglass from Gregor Samsa, you may never see another. It's difficult enough just finding the commerce enhancing stuff, which I like to do before I start trading anything else.

A good example of an item that's handled well is maps. You have to visit a number of merchants to collect them all.

What they DON'T need is 30 different swords, every type of pistol, etc. I have no idea what it's like if they also have 6 different qualities of weapons, except that they're supposed to have only the highest quality they have available for sale.

There may be some oddities with a level 10 merchant not getting new goods for sale. I noticed one quit stocking maps, didn't notice if there was other stuff as I never bought anything from him anyway.

I've got preliminary notes for implementing the medical stuff. Right now it's for returning injured crewmembers to duty, useful mostly on long voyages. The problem is, implementing it like we do food and rum is an incredible amount of code and I'm not sure it's worth it, even copy/pasting the food/rum code.

Eventually I want to revamp the morale system a bit. Enemy morale changes during battle, and can go up or down. I'd like to see player morale do something similar. Right now I can sail into battle with Heroic morale, lose half my crew and get my ship shot to pieces and morale is still Heroic for the boarding. Morale changes during boarding, then there's a daily change afterward based on your leadership and a few other factors.

Hook