Confirmed Bug Unintentional Fights or Lack Thereof (aka. AI Group Relations)

[Pieter Boelen]

One thing I know still needs some further work are the relations between the various AI groups.
Please post here all YOUR experiences with weird fights that shouldn't be happening.
Or the opposite: Instances where you reckon there SHOULD be a fight, but there isn't.

Here are some examples of my own:
1. Town guards do NOT protect the town citizens
2. Tortuga town: When one of the immortal always-fighting characters hits one of the town citizens, it turns into a free-for-all resulting in the death of all regular citizens and therefore free loot for the player
3. During a fight in the jungles of Hispaniola, apparently one of my officers accidentally hit a jungle tree placed there with the BuildingSet. Next thing I know, I'm at war with the "buildings" group. So that means that my officers will end up cutting down all trees they get close to. And I fear getting anywhere near a BuildingSet construction with a cannon.
4. Known issue: Nevis Pirate Settlement citizens hold a grudge for a LONG time

So what else is going on out there?

 

[KillPhil]

I never saw anything like that until now? The only thing I remember is, that I wanted to decrease my reputation by killing town people (which doesnt work by the way, dont know if this is normal) and the guards did nothing. That was in Charlestown

 

[Hylie Pistof]

1. It looks bad for them to just stand there, but if they joined in it would mean I would die that much faster.

2. I try to lure the town folk into those fights. Free loot!

3. The jungle is so thick in places that I can't see and like it when my officers turn into lumberjacks.

4. That goes for ALL pirates. I avoid pirate settlements for that reason.

5. When smuggling if you get caught by the Coast Guard, if you survive the fight all remaining smugglers go after you. Is it supposed to be like that?

 

[Pieter Boelen]

1. But they SHOULD join in, don't you think? Sure that would make it harder for the player, but isn't that the POINT?
I'm also thinking it would be fun to make it a lot more dangerous to walk around enemy ports. Right now, basically nobody cares.
The exception are towns that have navy officers who will recognize you. But other than that, it is no problem.
In my Jean Lafitte storyline I am hostile with Spain, but I keep returning to Puerto Rico for quest purposes and everybody is fine with that.

2. Fun, sure! But not fair, is it?

3. I can sort-of understand. Though we could also remove some of those palm trees to begin with.
Also, when that happens, do you end up being attacked by buildings with cannons elsewhere?

5. I don't think it is supposed to be like that. But as I said: There are definitely things wrong with how this all works in the code.
Once we've got that Pirate_KK merged, I'll definitely be wanting to look at doing something about that.

I never saw anything like that until now? The only thing I remember is, that I wanted to decrease my reputation by killing town people (which doesnt work by the way, dont know if this is normal) and the guards did nothing. That was in Charlestown

Reputation DIDN'T decrease? I get a -1 rep change every time I hit an unarmed citizen even if they're not killed by that.

 

[KillPhil]

yeah they werent unarmed. Every damn citizen had a weapon^^ I shot a citizen from distance and he didnt draw his sword, but nevertheless I didnt get -1 on reputation

 

[Hylie Pistof]

Buildings with cannons??


If you want to reduce your reputation go after a Monk.

 

[KillPhil]

ah good idea. I did it by capturing a ship, turned the captain in my officer and then sink my own ship. But the problem is if I do that too often the pirates (because of this I want my reputation to go down^^) get hostile. Can I just switch flags when sinking it?

 

[Pieter Boelen]

yeah they werent unarmed. Every damn citizen had a weapon^^ I shot a citizen from distance and he didnt draw his sword, but nevertheless I didnt get -1 on reputation

Ah, yes. You only get a rep for the unarmed ones. Though I seem to remember from the code that it should work for ANY character that hasn't drawn his/her blade.
So technically you should have gotten a rep hit there...? Strange.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Buildings with cannons??

There are fort-ey buildings around. Plus the shipyard shack in Speightstown port. Attack that one for a nice insta-death.

ah good idea. I did it by capturing a ship, turned the captain in my officer and then sink my own ship. But the problem is if I do that too often the pirates (because of this I want my reputation to go down^^) get hostile. Can I just switch flags when sinking it?

Can't you just capture a ship and when they surrender kill everyone?
The cheatmode also has an option to cycle through relations.

 

[KillPhil]

I dont want to play witch cheats . Yes I had a log that my rep decreased because of attacking an enemy that hasnt drawn his blade. But that was at the beginning of the game, at Barbados (the first mission) I got into some raiders and one of them hide his sword after some time and went away (??? ) after I finished the 3 others I killed him. But I didnt get this message at my massacre in Charlestown.

And if I shoot surrendered ships also nothing happens

 

[Pieter Boelen]

I got into some raiders and one of them hide his sword after some time and went away (??? )

Yep, that can happen when characters' blades break. You don't have to kill them anymore then. But that's up to you.

And if I shoot surrendered ships also nothing happens

Not? I seem to remember I once instantly managed to go to "Terror of the Seven Seas" or something just by firing one volley at a companion ship of mine.

I dont want to play witch cheats .

Fair enough. Is it a cheat though to make you MORE hated? That should be pretty easy.
One thing that might help: Kill item traders!

 

[KillPhil]

Well yes I shot my companion ships. But like I said, the nation of my actual flag will be hostile if I do that. But you're right, if you hit your own ships you get -15 on reputation, so if you sink it you're to 99% Horror of the Seven Seas

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Perhaps hoist your Personal Flag before doing it then?

 

[KillPhil]

okay I didnt think about that *rofl*

 

[jsv]

Ah, yes. You only get a rep for the unarmed ones. Though I seem to remember from the code that it should work for ANY character that hasn't drawn his/her blade.
So technically you should have gotten a rep hit there...? Strange.

This doesn't seem to work very well. If I attack a thief and entire city joins in and I kill them all, there is virtually no reputation drop. On the other hand, sometimes I go to another part of the city and there is a fight going on in a new location already. Everyone is slashing swords roughly in my direction, so I slash back, they die, and I get reputation drop for killing unarmed people. Damn, there was nobody with an undrawn sword anywhere near me

 

[Pieter Boelen]

The code is supposed to check for drawn blades. But I think it doesn't do that. Instead, it checks if the character is carrying a blade at all.
So attacking your thief is OK, because the thief has weapons. On that fight you ran into, probably by accident an unarmed citizen was hit.

 

[Levis]

I know for sure it does give you an error when they don't have theire blades drawn also.
But it could also be the are using a gun maybe?
I think it should check for WEAPONS drawn instaed of blades drawn.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

You can't draw your gun if you don't have a blade drawn first. Game engine limitation.
That's the whole reason why I added "Your Trusty Fists" to the game, because before the bladedamage mod could leave you with a sword drawn,
but your blade broken and taken away. Then because you HAVE no blade, you can't sheathe it either and you're stuck in the location.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

We will definitely need to address this here at some point!

It is quite scary how the town guards just REALLY don't care what you do with their citizens.
You can go on a killing spree and they'll just stand there, doing absolutely nothing until you attack THEM.
Then what is the point of even having guards there at all, I ask you?

Hardly any guard ever cares if you are an enemy of their nation and are walking around town.
Now I could accept that in the early game when nobody knows you yet, but it becomes silly as you proceed further in.

There is also a method to talk to house owners in towns and tell them about your "problem with the guards".
For a certain amount of money, they can then be convinced to put a "blind eye" to your exploits.
Except that you don't have to ever make use of this option, because they don't care about what you do anyway!

 

[Grey Roger]

The guards' job is to protect important people, e.g. the governor. They don't care about plebs. That's why they don't intervene when thugs attack you, either - you're not important to them. However, if you attack the guards, that's another matter - you're now attacking a representative of the government, possibly with intent to do something to the people they're guarding, and that's reason to fight you.

The guards don't know that you're an enemy. The game doesn't recognise that you're walking in downtown Havana wearing a British admiral's uniform, so neither do the guards.

@jsv: You attack a thief and lose a couple of points of reputation. Everyone else draws weapons on you. As they're now armed and attacking you, you don't lose reputation for killing them. (Unless attacking a thief no longer drops your reputation, the same way that telling someone he's dropped his purse no longer raises your reputation.) If there's a fight going on, you attack someone and he loses his weapon, and you hit him again, you lose reputation.

That happened to me recently and it wasn't in town, it was while I was going after a pirate treasure chest from a map. The usual army of bandits were nearby, we went to war, and when it was over I noticed that I'd lost reputation for hitting an unarmed opponent, I assume because his weapon had broken. Apparently I need to hit him, then look and see if he still has a sword - yes, he has, he's just hit me with it.

Attacking a ship which has surrendered doesn't seem to drop your reputation. Especially not if it's the bug where you beat the flagship and everyone else surrenders; you can't board them, you can't provoke them to hostility again, but you can sink them with gunfire and without loss of reputation.