3D file formats

Inez Dias · Jul 1, 2005

Thanks from me, too. Good thing there's a weekend coming ...

Inez Dias · Jul 1, 2005

Lass, the wrl doesn't seem to have anything about animations in it (except the timer) <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

" border="0" alt="sad.gif" /> Could it be that C4D generated another file ?

Inez Dias · Jul 1, 2005

Ah, and Nathan, that XML-PLugin is neat.
I guess I'll go for XML, too, export everything from the tool in XML and then whoever wants to work with it can write their own programs and afterwards import back with the tool.
And maybe just maybe, I can import what this plugin writes directly..

(And sorry for triple-posting - thoughts coming slow)

High Sea Lass · Jul 1, 2005

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Inez Dias @ Jul 1 2005, 09:15 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'>Lass, the wrl doesn't seem to have anything about animations in it (except the timer) <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

" border="0" alt="sad.gif" /> Could it be that C4D generated another file ?
<div align="right">[snapback]120467[/snapback]</div></div>
I fear not... <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

" border="0" alt="sad.gif" /> I have no idea why it did it like that, but that is what I got.

I thought there would be more too, but no. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dunno.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" :shrug

" border="0" alt="dunno.gif" /> It is weird. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

" border="0" alt="sad.gif" />

Inez Dias · Jul 2, 2005

No problem, I think I've made up my mind to use XML anyway.

BTW, does anyone know XSLT ? With that we could probably generate wrl (or obj) and all sort of other neat stuff from the XML without any real coding, just by applying a transform.
Mind, I'm no good at it, but it's real wizardry...

Inez Dias · Jul 12, 2005

Can that XML plugin also read the XML files or does it just export ?

And does it give you a choice what types of polygons to export? (It seems to write rectangles, but triangles would be easier..)

NathanKell · Jul 12, 2005

Sorry, I really don't know. I just got lucky googling.
It appears to not even really do faces, just objects; or at least I don't see anything about faces in the code.
Then again, I don't really know how C4D deals with meshes internally...
Sorry... :\ <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dunno.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" :shrug

" border="0" alt="dunno.gif" />

High Sea Lass · Jul 12, 2005

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Inez Dias @ Jul 12 2005, 01:24 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'>Can that XML plugin also read the XML files or does it just export ?<div align="right">[snapback]123108[/snapback]</div></div>That one is only export, I believe. Same with C4D otherwise. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

" border="0" alt="sad.gif" />

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Inez Dias @ Jul 12 2005, 01:24 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'>And does it give you a choice what types of polygons to export? (It seems to write rectangles, but triangles would be easier..)<div align="right">[snapback]123108[/snapback]</div></div>I guess I should triangulate the mesh first, heh... Sorry, forgot to do that. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/oops3.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" :eek:

ops2" border="0" alt="oops3.gif" /> <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mybad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" :facepalm

" border="0" alt="mybad.gif" /> <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/oops3.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" :eek:

ops2" border="0" alt="oops3.gif" />

Here are four .xml files again; once more, the plug-in does not seem to do much... <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":?" border="0" alt="unsure.gif" />

But this time it is all triangulated, at least... <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/oops3.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" :eek:

ops2" border="0" alt="oops3.gif" />

[attachment=90:attachment]

Inez Dias · Jul 12, 2005

Thanks a lot - and so sorry I created work for you when you were sick - didn't know that.
Made some progress on reading those XML files (there *are* faces in one of the files - maybe that's not the one from the plugin) and hope to have some news in that respect soon.
Even if we have to make up our own format, XML is definitely the choice.

High Sea Lass · Jul 12, 2005

Hey, no worries - I feel better today, finally, heh! <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile2.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

)" border="0" alt="smile2.gif" /> Just my head still looking for a headache, silly knob!

Having just now been working on converting Blazie and Piratess to female animation (which I have now) I seem to get some distortion when I try to switch to man_woman_sit.an... <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":?" border="0" alt="unsure.gif" />

Am I wrong to think all I need to do after converting a model from man to woman skeleton to make them sit is to point to man_woman_sit.an rather than man_woman.an (which works perfectly fine, Inez! <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/me.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" :onya

" border="0" alt="me.gif" />)...? <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dunno.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" :shrug

" border="0" alt="dunno.gif" />

The fingers curl up and all that jazz when I use the sit animation... <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":?" border="0" alt="unsure.gif" />

Inez Dias · Jul 12, 2005

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(High Sea Lass @ Jul 12 2005, 12:37 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'>Am I wrong to think all I need to do after converting a model from man to woman skeleton to make them sit is to point to man_woman_sit.an rather than man_woman.an (which works perfectly fine, Inez! <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/me.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" :onya

" border="0" alt="me.gif" />)...?Â <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dunno.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" :shrug

" border="0" alt="dunno.gif" /></div>
That's what I thought...Worked fine for Claire - I didn't touch the model.
You do have to reload the model after selecting a different animation, though.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(High Sea Lass @ Jul 12 2005, 12:37 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'>The fingers curl up and all that jazz when I use the sit animation...Â <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":?" border="0" alt="unsure.gif" />
<div align="right">[snapback]123214[/snapback]</div></div>
Oh no, not again ... <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/modding.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" :modding

" border="0" alt="modding.gif" /> <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/modding.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" :modding

" border="0" alt="modding.gif" /> That happens with all frames, or only when actually sitting?
In the tool or in the game? (If it's in the game, I've probably messed up the.ani file.)
I have no idea right now what's wrong there, would you care to just send me the models so I can look myself?

Another thing:
Higher up in this thread you were discussing manually editing bone numbers, and said you have no idea which bone number goes where.
While sitting out in the sun and thinking about nothing this afternoon it suddenly occured to me that I had been wanting to give you that information, only didn't know how, but that it's actually quite easy:
In the tool, load a model, then coose View / Animation Data. Then in the animation window click on the radio buttons in the skeleton picture on the right, and in one of the text boxes on the left should appear the corresponding bone number.
For those bones that have no button (e.g. the fingers), you can use the "make bone locators" checkbox in the tool's main window, export a model, and see the bones in GmViewer. Turn on "View labels" to also see the numbers.
Though I really do hope we'll find better ways than manual editing (who'd want to manually edit several hundred points?).

Inez Dias · Jul 12, 2005

I've now looked into the new XML files, but still the polys are rectangular <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

" border="0" alt="sad.gif" />. But actually , if it doesn't get worse than that, triangulating of rectangles is not *that* hard to do <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />, so in principle I should be able to read that, too (though so far the cylinder doesn't look like a cylinder when I display it, but maybe I have something else wrong).
And it's indeed not the one from the plugin that has those polys.
But the plugin gives us the bones in a very nicely readable form, so if I can figure out how to get bones *into* C4D, we should be ok.
Do you have docs about C4D script, and if so, would you be willing to share them? I have made a MaxScript to recreate the skeleton, so maybe I could do that for C4D, too.

EDIT: And I *was* doing something else wrong (stupid error in parsing floating-point numbers) - the cylinder looks fine now! <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/bounce.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":b:" border="0" alt="bounce.gif" /> So no worries about the rectangles, they can be handled.

High Sea Lass · Jul 12, 2005

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Inez Dias @ Jul 12 2005, 06:10 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(High Sea Lass @ Jul 12 2005, 12:37 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'>Am I wrong to think all I need to do after converting a model from man to woman skeleton to make them sit is to point to man_woman_sit.an rather than man_woman.an (which works perfectly fine, Inez! <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/me.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" :onya

" border="0" alt="me.gif" />)...? <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dunno.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" :shrug

" border="0" alt="dunno.gif" /></div>
That's what I thought...Worked fine for Claire - I didn't touch the model.
You do have to reload the model after selecting a different animation, though.</div>
Yup, always do that or not much works well, heheh! <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile2.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

)" border="0" alt="smile2.gif" />
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Inez Dias @ Jul 12 2005, 06:10 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(High Sea Lass @ Jul 12 2005, 12:37 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'>The fingers curl up and all that jazz when I use the sit animation... <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":?" border="0" alt="unsure.gif" />
<div align="right">[snapback]123214[/snapback]</div></div>
Oh no, not again ... <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/modding.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" :modding

" border="0" alt="modding.gif" /> <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/modding.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" :modding

" border="0" alt="modding.gif" /> That happens with all frames, or only when actually sitting?
In the tool or in the game? (If it's in the game, I've probably messed up the.ani file.)
I have no idea right now what's wrong there, would you care to just send me the models so I can look myself?</div>
All frames - and in the tool. I haven't had time to run the game yet, heh... <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/oops3.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" :eek:

ops2" border="0" alt="oops3.gif" />

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Inez Dias @ Jul 12 2005, 06:10 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'>Another thing:
Higher up in this thread you were discussing manually editing bone numbers, and said you have no idea which bone number goes where.
While sitting out in the sun and thinking about nothing this afternoon it suddenly occured to me that I had been wanting to give you that information, only didn't know how, but that it's actually quite easy:<snip><div align="right">[snapback]123244[/snapback]</div></div>
Ah, yes, thank you! <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

And how true, who wants to edit 100's of numbers and not getting a good overview... <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":?" border="0" alt="unsure.gif" /> Not me! <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile2.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

)" border="0" alt="smile2.gif" />

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Inez Dias @ Jul 12 2005, 07:27 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'>I've now looked into the new XML files, but still the polys are rectangular <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

" border="0" alt="sad.gif" />. But actually , if it doesn't get worse than that, triangulating of rectangles is not *that* hard to do <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />, so in principle I should be able to read that, too (though so far the cylinder doesn't look like a cylinder when I display it, but maybe I have something else wrong).</div>
Odd... <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":?" border="0" alt="unsure.gif" /> It is all triangles in C4D... Even when I save it as something else and import it, it comes back as triangles... <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dunno.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" :shrug

" border="0" alt="dunno.gif" />

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Inez Dias @ Jul 12 2005, 07:27 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'>And it's indeed not the one from the plugin that has those polys.</div>
Heh, true, that one gives not much at all... <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Inez Dias @ Jul 12 2005, 07:27 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'>But the plugin gives us the bones in a very nicely readable form, so if I can figure out how to get bones *into* C4D, we should be ok.
Do you have docs about C4D script, and if so, would you be willing to share them? I have made a MaxScript to recreate the skeleton, so maybe I could do that for C4D, too.</div>
Uhm, nothing apart from the manual, I suppose... <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dunno.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" :shrug

" border="0" alt="dunno.gif" /> I have not yet looked into any scripting, but I will do so.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Inez Dias @ Jul 12 2005, 07:27 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'>EDIT: And I *was* doing something else wrong (stupid error in parsing floating-point numbers) - the cylinder looks fine now! <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/bounce.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":b:" border="0" alt="bounce.gif" /> So no worries about the rectangles, they can be handled.<div align="right">[snapback]123279[/snapback]</div></div>
Heh, well, it is still all triangles to me. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />

Must be the XML export. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dunno.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" :shrug

" border="0" alt="dunno.gif" /> I can't reload XML, but when I save as anything else I can load it comes back as triangles. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wacko.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":wacko:" border="0" alt="wacko.gif" />

NathanKell · Jul 13, 2005

Google pointed to <a href="http://www.c4dcafe.com/portal/FORUM.asp?FORUM_ID=2&CAT_ID=2&Forum_Title=How+do+you+like+your+C%2EO%2EF%2EF%2EE%2EE%3F" target="_blank">http://www.c4dcafe.com/portal/FORUM.asp?FO...%2EF%2EE%2EE%3F</a> a forum on COFFEE scripting.
There's a reference in there to 'SDK docs' so there's some documentation somewhere...

High Sea Lass · Jul 13, 2005

<img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mybad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" :facepalm

" border="0" alt="mybad.gif" />

I'm getting tired. I closed this windows before posting.

<img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mybad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" :facepalm

" border="0" alt="mybad.gif" />

Anyway, yes, there is a SDK for C4D - here is the one fo rmy version:

<a href="http://www.maxon.net/pages/plugincafe/downloads_old_e.html" target="_blank">http://www.maxon.net/pages/plugincafe/downloads_old_e.html</a>

It's for the 8.2, of course. Not sure if that helps you any, but I am all but lost on this whole thing... <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":?" border="0" alt="unsure.gif" />

Inez Dias · Jul 13, 2005

Thanks for the links to SDK docs, both of you.
For Blazie and Piratess I need to check, sorry 'bout that, I was too certain of myself so I didn't test <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/oops3.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" :eek:

ops2" border="0" alt="oops3.gif" /> .
I'll give it priority now.

High Sea Lass · Jul 14, 2005

You're welcome!

And don't be silly, you did a great job with the animation! <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" :yes

" border="0" alt="yes.gif" />

I simply noticed it on the fingers, since they are the thing that are by far the most easy thing to see it on.

They are curled up more than the should in the default position, and gets a kind of Z look to them when swimming et cetera... <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/piratesing.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" :shock

" border="0" alt="piratesing.gif" /> Ouchies. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile2.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

)" border="0" alt="smile2.gif" />

But it is top notch work anyway! <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/me.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" :onya

" border="0" alt="me.gif" /> The ladies can sit, whee! <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/danse1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" :dance

" border="0" alt="danse1.gif" />

3D file formats

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Inez Dias

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