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Americans and Corsairs

Which Location would be Best suited to a new American Nation?

  • Douwessen

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Concaicao

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Greenfield

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0

jmv575

Landlubber
Storm Modder
Once I'm through with my Royal Navy skins and have finished updating the Spanish and French skins to function properly, I'm going to start work on a mod to add Barbary Corsairs and Americans. My initial thoughts are to replace the Portuguese with the Corsairs and perhaps the Dutch with the Americans. What are your thoughts on that? Does anyone have any better ways of adding the two nations? This would probably take a lot of coding, so I want to get a plan together. Of course, I would need a lot of help, especially in regards to coding.

Please tell me what you think.
 
I think adding nations would be better. But i can't help you with the coding sorry. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ib012.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cry" border="0" alt="ib012.gif" />
 
I couldn't really say... maybe Greenford, since "Americans" were still British subjects in 1690 (unless you're thinking of updating the period as well). I don't know that us colonists had much international dealings beyond France and England... maybe Spain, a tiny bit.

Come to think of it, I think some of the original Pilgrims were Dutch. So there you go.
 
Well, as with my skin project, my goal is to move the game to the Napoleonic Period. The date would begin on May 16th 1803.

The Nations:
Great Britain and the Kingdom of Two Sicilies (yes, an Italian State) vs. France and Spain.

The Corsairs would sort of take over the Pirate role, and Americans would be mainly privateers leaning toward France, and really pissed at the Corsairs.

At this point in our coding knowledge I believe we can only replace current nations, not create new ones. Of course, I'm not a coder, so I don't know. Someone else would need to see if they could add new nations to the encounters.
 
IT's cool but to be rally historical as it's seem you want it to look like, you will have to change most of the swords skin!
 
Haha, yes, I guess I will. Perhaps I will just let the swords stay the way they are now.
 
I think its a great idea......On....to the French Revolution...Set the sails. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/keith.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":keith" border="0" alt="keith.gif" />

Give my regards to Robespierre.
 
The only problem I see with Greeford is, that once you do the fort invasion mission all the soldiers in Greenford are dead. They no longer show up guarding the doors once you finish the game.
 
<!--QuoteBegin-jmv575+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jmv575)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Well, as with my skin project, my goal is to move the game to the Napoleonic Period. The date would begin on May 16th 1803.

The Nations:
Great Britain and the Kingdom of Two Sicilies (yes, an Italian State) vs. France and Spain.

The Corsairs would sort of take over the Pirate role, and Americans would be mainly privateers leaning toward France, and really pissed at the Corsairs.

At this point in our coding knowledge I believe we can only replace current nations, not create new ones. Of course, I'm not a coder, so I don't know. Someone else would need to see if they could add new nations to the encounters.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why not, instead of having the Kingdom of Two Sicilies, have the Venitians, like I am making? I was thinking of replacing the Portugese with the Venitians, though, instead of adding them, because I don't have the coding experience to add them.
I was going to use my origional officer as the diplomat (he doesn't look too officerly,)
-Capo
 
And replace the dutch with the Americans, but keep a few dutch guys on Douwessen,
I think the dutch were under French control lat the time.
For Corsairs, maybe replace the pirates? But were the Barbary Corsairs even in the Carribean?
-Capo
BTW, if you want, I can eisily change the skins I have into 2 sicily skins, if you give me the pics.
 
While Venice was the key mercantile site in the Mediterranean from almost its founding to the late renaissance/ early modern period, by the reign of King Phillip II of Spain towards the second half of the 16th century the Venetian star had lost much of its sparkle. The Venetians won the Mediterranean through trade. The did have a strong fleet of war galleys and galleases, but such vessels are extremely ill suited for sail on the ocean. When coupled with Strait of Gibralatar's natural gate status, Venice was cut off from the growing global age of sail of the late 16th early 17th centuries.

The Dutch, using for the most part the same methods the Venitians used before them, created a vast economic empire. The Netherlands and Zeeland were infact occupied by the kingdom of Spain in the 16th century, but still the low countries and their merchants grew fat on Spanish trade. One of the goals of the `ill-fated` Spanish Invasion attempt of England in 1588 was to secure the Spanish control of the Dutch Mercantile districts. The Battles between the English and Spanish in the Channel signified an end to the sovereignty of the galley. The Galleon was now took center stage as the premiere warship. Likewise, trade between the New World and the Far East created a need for deep draft ocean going ships. Galleys, while still seeing limited service, were effectively retired. The Venetians, with a strong Galley fleet and light Mediterranean rigged merchantmen could not compete in the growing global system.

Despite these naval changes, Venice still held the imagination of the world as being the Economic city.

That is the long answer. The short answer is this, I'm trying to recreate the state of the world at the beginning of the Napoleonic Wars in 1803 (prior to that, the wars could be called the War Against the French Revolution). Naples was the key Italian player, not Venice.

As for the Barbary Corsairs not being the Caribbean, you are correct. They were on the North African coast. Xebecs weren't in the carribean either. Nor were tartans. Pinnace? First of all, that's not even a Pinnace. And if you wanted to get really really serious, you might have to do something about those roving bands of undead pirates, monkeys, and natives.

Also, when I play, I don't think of it as being in the Caribbean. They are all made up islands anyway.
 
<!--QuoteBegin-jmv575+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jmv575)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->While Venice was the key mercantile site in the Mediterranean from almost its founding to the late renaissance/ early modern period, by the reign of King Phillip II of Spain towards the second half of the 16th century the Venetian star had lost much of its sparkle. The Venetians won the Mediterranean through trade. The did have a strong fleet of war galleys and galleases, but such vessels are extremely ill suited for sail on the ocean. When coupled with Strait of Gibralatar's natural gate status, Venice was cut off from the growing global age of sail of the late 16th early 17th centuries.

The Dutch, using for the most part the same methods the Venitians used before them, created a vast economic empire. The Netherlands and Zeeland were infact occupied by the kingdom of Spain in the 16th century, but still the low countries and their merchants grew fat on Spanish trade. One of the goals of the `ill-fated` Spanish Invasion attempt of England in 1588 was to secure the Spanish control of the Dutch Mercantile districts. The Battles between the English and Spanish in the Channel signified an end to the sovereignty of the galley. The Galleon was now took center stage as the premiere warship. Likewise, trade between the New World and the Far East created a need for deep draft ocean going ships. Galleys, while still seeing limited service, were effectively retired. The Venetians, with a strong Galley fleet and light Mediterranean rigged merchantmen could not compete in the growing global system.

Despite these naval changes, Venice still held the imagination of the world as being the Economic city.

That is the long answer. The short answer is this, I'm trying to recreate the state of the world at the beginning of the Napoleonic Wars in 1803 (prior to that, the wars could be called the War Against the French Revolution). Naples was the key Italian player, not Venice.

As for the Barbary Corsairs not being the Caribbean, you are correct. They were on the North African coast. Xebecs weren't in the carribean either. Nor were tartans. Pinnace? First of all, that's not even a Pinnace. And if you wanted to get really really serious, you might have to do something about those roving bands of undead pirates, monkeys, and natives.

Also, when I play, I don't think of it as being in the Caribbean. They are all made up islands anyway.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That was beutiful.
By adding the Italians, I, myself, was trying to get the game more napoleonic, so if venice is a bad choice, i guess i should change the skins, huh? Can't be that much of a difference, though, between venitian and 2 sicilies uniforms though. Do you have any pics?

I really want a historically accurate Napoleonic Carribean, so excuse me for sounding mean, but I HATE THE DAMN XEBECS AND TARTANES AND IMPOSTER PINNACES! What the hell was the tartane for, anyway?
 
Xebecs and Tartanes are Mediterranean Rigs. There was also such thin as a a Xebec frigate, or what is sometimes called a Spanish Xebec. A Spanish Xebec had hte hull of a regular Xebec with its overhanging poop and long beak head, however, in addition to the regular three lateen sails, they could pull down the lateen yards, and put up proper `square-courses`, topsails, and `top-gallents`. Both Xebecs and Xebec frigates were fearsome foes in combat.

A Tartane is a small mediterranean merchanment. Capable of transporting a small amount of goods very cheapily, Tartanes were designed for the Mediterranean.

In real life a pinnace is a small boat launched by another ship.

Regarding pictures of the Napolese navy and soldiers, in a thread titled "First Screenies Done" or something to that effect Diomed has posted excellent information on Italian uniforms.

Oh, Napoli and The Kingdom of Two Sicilies are the same thing, I use the terms interchangeably. Sorry for the confusion.
 
<!--QuoteBegin-jmv575+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jmv575)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Once I'm through with my Royal Navy skins and have finished updating the Spanish and French skins to function properly, I'm going to start work on a mod to add Barbary Corsairs and Americans. My initial thoughts are to replace the Portuguese with the Corsairs and perhaps the Dutch with the Americans. What are your thoughts on that? Does anyone have any better ways of adding the two nations? This would probably take a lot of coding, so I want to get a plan together. Of course, I would need a lot of help, especially in regards to coding.

Please tell me what you think.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

cool idea - and very ambitious - but as long as we can have two parallel builds going on, a 1600s build and an 1800s build. personally i much prefer the 1600s period, when spain was much stronger.

i think the logical choice to add an american port would be either greenford or oxbay, because that way you don't have to remove another nation. plus, could the corsairs not be incorporated with quebradas costillas?
 
<!--QuoteBegin-jmv575+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jmv575)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Xebecs and Tartanes are Mediterranean Rigs. There was also such thin as a a Xebec frigate, or what is sometimes called a Spanish Xebec. A Spanish Xebec had hte hull of a regular Xebec with its overhanging poop and long beak head, however, in addition to the regular three lateen sails, they could pull down the lateen yards, and put up proper `square-courses`, topsails, and `top-gallents`. Both Xebecs and Xebec frigates were fearsome foes in combat.

A Tartane is a small mediterranean merchanment. Capable of transporting a small amount of goods very cheapily, Tartanes were designed for the Mediterranean.

In real life a pinnace is a small boat launched by another ship.

Regarding pictures of the Napolese navy and soldiers, in a thread titled "First Screenies Done" or something to that effect Diomed has posted excellent information on Italian uniforms.

Oh, Napoli and The Kingdom of Two Sicilies are the same thing, I use the terms interchangeably. Sorry for the confusion.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh, I know about Napoli and the Sicilys things.
BTW, do you think I should give Concicao to the Italians?
-Capo
 
only, the italians never <i>had</i> an empire...

i'm not sure i agree with you, jmv575; none of the italian states were ever very powerful, with the possible exception of piemonte (which spent a lot of its time staving off france). and southern italy has always been very rural compared to the north. plus, i don't think the kingdom of the two sicilies ever really got on its feet; it spent little time as an independent state, between being an annexe of the spanish empire and being conquered by the piemontesi (what the piemontesi called the 'reunion', `mid-1800s`).
 
Who needs an empire when you can populate the islands with guests/captives/dignitaries from other countries?

I like all the discussion of history around here... and it'd be neat to immerse yourself more in the politics of the time during the game, meeting people from different nations and, if nothing else, talking with them about their relations to others. (Someone mentioned Hugonauts a while back.) A few related quests wouldn't hurt, either.
 
There was supposed to be some quest regarding a Huguenot Admiral. I don't know anything about it though.

Kieron is certainly right about the North/South split in Italy. Up in `butter-country` you have all the industry (centered around Milan, as I recall) while the south is oil based.

Kieron, you may be right about the Italian distribution of forces. I'm going on scant readings that I'm trying to remember. Napoleon's Italian campaigns have never piqued my interest. I will remedy that. However, the goal would be to find a sea power allied with Britain around 1803. If Naples is not the best choice, then please set us right.

I've always enjoyed Piemonte. Many many generations ago (before `Boney-part`) my maternal ancestors hailed from there.

If you can figure out how to make a seprate 17th century and Napoleonic Build I'll be with you all the way. Just let me know on that.

You are right, Quebradas would make an excellent Corsair base. My only concern was that eliminating pirates wouldn't go over well in a game called Pirates of the Caribbean. If there were two builds, however... <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" /> Keep me posted.
 
Skull was working on that quest with the Huguenot Admiral. I think he's been busy with "real life" lately, so he hasn't been around much.

Is this going to be the type of mod that can be switched to? I mean, parallel to the regular game you could play? It would be really cool to be able to play the original game (as modded, naturally) and then jump up to a later version with Hawk's children/grandchildren working the archipelago...
 
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