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AOP Question

skull

skull

Sea Dog
GrayAngel,have a question for you,is English version AOP copyright protected by Starforce same as Russian version <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/par-ty.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheers" border="0" alt="par-ty.gif" />
 
I really hope they don't. There wasn't much good news about starforce lately:

<a href="http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=29429" target="_blank">http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=29429</a>
<a href="http://www.boingboing.net/2006/01/31/starforce_threatens_.html" target="_blank">http://www.boingboing.net/2006/01/31/starf...threatens_.html</a>
<a href="http://www.glop.org/starforce/" target="_blank">http://www.glop.org/starforce/</a>
<a href="http://www.heise.de/newsticker/result.xhtml?url=/newsticker/meldung/69075" target="_blank">http://www.heise.de/newsticker/result.xhtm...r/meldung/69075</a> (GERMAN)

I already had a lot of troubles with my DVD drive thanks to nVidia's buggy nForce IDE drivers and I REALLY don't need some hidden device drivers to mess my system up again!

By the way: As long as you can edit the binaries on your hard drive there will ALWAYS be cracks, for every game.
You can even run games from virtual cd images with programs like Daemon Tools and StarForce Nightmare.

I think Starforce is the kind of protection system like Steam is: It only troubles the legit users!
(Funniest thing are support hotlines, sending no-cd cracks via email to users who have troubles with their cd drives <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="xD:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" /> )
 
Aye mate,thankyou for the information, and links.I have experienced problems with starforce as well. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/par-ty.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheers" border="0" alt="par-ty.gif" />
 
It will be protected by StarForce, however we will do all we can to implement it properly (which alot of companies do not do), so it won't cripple the game in any way. Granted, there are some problems that we can't possibly fix with StarForce (like probs with old drives), but the horrors of this protection are overhyped. Yes, it's invasive, but it works, not by making the disks uncopiable (still can be done), but by making running the copies too much fuss for the average user. Most of the pain & trouble for both legit and non-legit users coming from Starforce is psychological, really, which is it's main selling point - a pirate copy doesn't look attractive it's uncomfortable enough to use. So companies will continue to use StarForce because it largely achieves the main goal of a protection system - making people buy legit copies.

Steam is quite a different thing - it's main characteristic is that it's a direct distribution system, which means devs don't have to divide profits with publishers and retail stores. Protection concerns are quite secondary in this case.
 
Thanks for your reply Urfin,reason why I asked about Starforce is because a short while ago,purchased a game that has StarForce technology.which I had never heard of Starforce at the time,installed game and soon after had problems with my {BRAND NEW} DVD player and running some of my other applications which were all performing fine before installation of game.So this not Hype to me as I spent a fair chunk of change to upgrade my computer 2 months prior before unkowingly installing StarForce on my computer and I am also out $55.00 for a game that I will not play.This may be a case as you said,that some companies do not implement it properly,but I do not feel like being a test subject for StarForce Technolgy again. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/par-ty.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheers" border="0" alt="par-ty.gif" />
 
And that testimonial is a good enough for me to never purchase the game.

software that may damage my hardware is a NFW and I would seriously consider legal remedies if it did.

Mummmmmmmmph Edited for sevility.
 
If someone sticks junk on my computer without me knowing ... shame on them!

If I knowingly invite the "Yes it's invasive but it works" crowd to invade my computer, then it's shame on me.

Just gives me one more reason not to spend time or money on AOP.
 
I like StarForce no more than you do, but there's wishes, and there's the business reality, and reality is that publishers exist, retail stores exist, and their fear of loosing profits exists. StarForce is just one aspect of a bigger problem with the copyability of intellectualy property in general.
 
I agree on that, as fans we sometimes forget the reason people make these games it to put food on the table. Im not a fan of starforce, but if you are left with the choice of making it overly easy to crack and making it hard at the expense of a few........well the few are dropped
 
As a fan I have never forgotten that.
I am 55 and have never used/owned/or created pirated software and have discouraged it in others!

Non intrusive copy protection has been a way of life since DOS games if not before, and I still see the game industry thriving.

When you say "at the expense of a few", I believe it is at the expense of the many!
It is only the few who realize it at first.

To use an analogy, there may be many places in the world where the idea of warrantless searches of homes in an effort to reduce crime, while only inconveniencing a few, and mostly the guilty anyway, is totally acceptable.

Well that kind of thinking does not fly where I come from.

Let them keep their Starforce if they want.
I will not spend my money where this is in place.
I really don't need their game ... that much!
 
Aye, Petros! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":yes" border="0" alt="yes.gif" /> Well spoken, matey! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/onya.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":onya" border="0" alt="onya.gif" />

Starforce? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":?" border="0" alt="unsure.gif" /> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/no.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":no" border="0" alt="no.gif" /> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumbsdown.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":2dn" border="0" alt="thumbsdown.gif" /> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/razz.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":razz" border="0" alt="razz.gif" /> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/slap.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":slap" border="0" alt="slap.gif" />
 
Security is one thing.
Security that has the potential of damaging your hardware (like your DVD drive no longer works at all) or making your other software completely stop working (thing the complexities of Firaxis software here folks) is an entirely different kettle of rotting fish.

And remember folks this issue comes from commercially obtained software that is otherwise working properly.
The possible issue of a security system trashing your computer after it detects a fake is not even considered here.
 
The pain with copyprotection like Starfoce is, that it punishes those who buy the game!

There is no Copyprotection, that really helps against Piracy. I'm sure there will be copies to download without Starforce in the net shortly after release....

But those of us, who want to buy the game will have to think once again about AOP.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yes, it's invasive<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Very carefully words - this i found on a webpage about Starforce-Boycott

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What is Starforce?
Starforce is a software copy protection tool installed by PC game publishers, which is designed to prevent the casual copying of retail CDROM applications. It installs as a hidden device driver, without the end-user's knowledge or consent.

Why are we boycotting it?
Starforce has received criticism for installing its own device driver onto computers. The Starforce drivers are often linked to system instability and computer crashes. If these problems occur, the end-user would be unware as to the cause of the problem, and would be helpless to solve the problem.

For example, here's one of the common problems brought by Starforce: under Windows XP, if packets are lost during the reading or writing of a disk, XP interprets this as an error and steps the IDE speed down. Eventually it will revert to 16bit compatibility mode rendering a CD/DVD writer virtually unusable. In some circumstances certain drives cannot cope with this mode and it results in physical hardware failure (Most commonly in multiformat CD/DVD writer drives). A sure sign of this step down occurring is that the burn speeds will get slower and slower (no matter what speed you select to burn at). Starforce, on a regular basis, triggers this silent step down. Until it reaches the latter stages most people do not even realise it is happening.

Update: It has been reported by many users that the slowdown caused by StarForce on some recent multiformat DVD writers can cause irreversible hardware failures on those drives (they aren't recognized anymore), as they aren't supposed to write at slow speeds.

Moreover, the Starforce drivers, installed on your system, grant ring 0 (system level) privileges to any code under the ring 3 (user level) privileges. Thus, any virus or trojan can get OS privileges and totally control your system. Since Windows 2000, the Windows line security and stability got enhanced by separating those privileges, but with the Starforce drivers, the old system holes and instabilities are back and any program (or virus) can reach the core of your system by using the Starforce drivers as a backdoor. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Personally i will rethink my decision to buy the game and i just can tell you to inform about SF, before buying the game.

Sorry about akellas decision <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":?" border="0" alt="unsure.gif" />
 
These days I feel really bad for developers whose games are saddled with Starforce, because no matter how good/problem-free SF copy protection gets, it will never outgrow its early bad press and as a result game sales will always suffer.

Don't get me wrong; I'm no fan of the Starforce's invasive protection methods, nor the nasty mafia mentality of their company in reaction to criticism. However, despite that, recent versions of SF have been pretty decent. Most of the third-hand horror stories are ancient and exaggerated, and shouldn't be used as the only criteria when deciding whether or not to purchase a game.

My personal experience with Starforce on my machine has been positive. SF use hasn't affected my DVD drives in any way, nor has it fouled up any of my virtual drive software, which puts me in the vast majority of users. Silent Hunter III and X3: Reunion are currently two of my favorite gaming pastimes, and while I don't like having the SF drivers on my machine, I'm willing to put up with them for the sake of my own enjoyment. I'll do the same for AoP, whenever it finally gets released. Besides, these days it's quite easy to uninstall SF drivers after you uninstall the game they came with, so aside from the old chestnut about melting DVD drives (a risk that, as I understand it, no longer exists with the current generation of SF drivers), there's not as much risk associated with installing a Starforce game as you might think.
 
meh - I'm not too worried.

I'm sure there is a way to get rid of starforce on your computer, and I'm sure that it would take more research, and work than somebody who casually wants to copy a game (I'm using casual becauseit was in the description). That way people who work hard at it to copy it anyways (I'm assuming that there is a way around it - 'cause there is a way around just about every rule that exists on computers) won't necessarily need it to copy it - but then those people who aren't copying it can get it off their computer and not get hacked as easily.

I mean, if the effect of this starforce thing is so hated, somebody will find a way to prevent whatever people hate about it.

In any case, I reformat my computer just about once every three months. I don't even have an antivirus installed anymore, it just sucks up ressources, and causes trouble, not to mention costing money (whoa, I don't like saying that on a messageboard). I won't think twice about it before picking up a game, this game is going to be awesome.

I guess I shouldn't be talking about what I don't understand though. Sorry, I don't mean to pollute.
 
If i read all information about SF correctly, the newer Versions are the main Problem.

I don't want to have a backdoor for viruses open on my system! Ididn't use my pc just for gaming and it would be horroble to loose all data on it, even if i would back up anything regulary, it would be a pain to reinstall the whole system. I don't fear the Meltdown of CD dives that much, as i did not heard of people who had that problem themseves, but those backdoor is terrible. Sony had simular problems with their Music-protection and had to take it out of the market...
 
I will put it in a nut shell for ye mates,my own experience with starforce,is it made my windows XP unstable,you could end up with numerous problems,some say they have no problems,StarForce says it is not compatable with all system.I'm a stickler for keep'n my PC running at optimal performance with legit software and since removing Starforce drivers ,my PC performance is back where it was prior to installation,but I am one of the few,so it mattters not <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheeky" border="0" alt="icon_mrgreen1.gif" /> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/par-ty.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheers" border="0" alt="par-ty.gif" />
 
<!--quoteo(post=140509:date=Feb 24 2006, 12:01 AM:name=skull)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(skull @ Feb 24 2006, 12:01 AM) [snapback]140509[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
... I am one of the few,...<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheeky" border="0" alt="icon_mrgreen1.gif" /> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/par-ty.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheers" border="0" alt="par-ty.gif" />
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Ye mean ye not be a sheeple (sheep people)?

Aye Matey, neither be I, <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/me.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":onya" border="0" alt="me.gif" />
 
To quell the fear somewhat - we're not going to use the latest version of StarForce for AoP exactly because we want to be sure it gives us & users no unexpected problems.
 
thats somewhat good news Urfin,I played Enigme Rising Tide which apparently uses an older version of StarForce and I had no problems <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/par-ty.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheers" border="0" alt="par-ty.gif" />
 
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