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Andinout

Andinout

Sailor Apprentice
bring it in here so no off topicing lol (only an Idea if not liked just remove topic)

Continued from <a href="http://forum.piratesahoy.net//index.php?s=&showtopic=12078&view=findpost&p=271009" target="_blank">http://forum.piratesahoy.net//index.php?s=...st&p=271009</a>
 
<!--quoteo(post=271082:date=Jul 29 2008, 01:59 PM:name=Commodore John Paul Jones)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Commodore John Paul Jones @ Jul 29 2008, 01:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=271082"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--QuoteBegin-Cpt. James+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cpt. James)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I have read Six Frigates. Well, the first few chapters at least, before I grew sick of the yank drivel.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Drivel?! I found the whole novel as exciting and vivid as any Hornblower or Aubrey book!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I can't stand either series. I don't know why either is popular. Perhaps it is simply the writing style.

<!--QuoteBegin-jpj+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jpj)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If that is your opinion, then I think its fair to say that all the books I've read on RN history are biased... you believe that you truly are the best bloody navy in the world? That not a single nation exceeds you? Then why do I speak to you as an American and not a British subject? Why is the <i>Consitution</i> moored in Boston as a national icon and not scrapped by the hands of her British captors?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

No. Don't be rude, please. I did not direct strong language at you. We are speaking of the Napoleonic Era, in the time those Six Frigates were built. I acknowledge the failings in tactics against the French Navy during the 1770s and 1780s. You are an American as the French did all it could to stop Britain. It was the French Navy and army that prevented a British victory. Funny, recently your country went all Francophobic. Ironic, eh?

<!--QuoteBegin-jpj+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jpj)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You do not prevent us from taking pride in our respective histories... but you sure make a point of opposing it and disrespecting our rights to take pride in it. And each nation is better in one way or another... Britain turned to press gangs and therefore often found ships crewed by surly landlubbers. America made a point of avoiding this and therefore crewed its few ships with volunteers. It is natural, regardless of nation or service, that a volunteer made a personal decision and commitment, sacrificed for his country, and therefore has more determination and higher morale. A volunteer's want to serve often leads to finer skills and tougher resolve, regardless of avaliable training and equipment. The Continental Army and Navy are examples of this... as were the victors of the English Civil War and the French Revolution.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Yes. But we have an Empire's Navy to run, not six frigates and a bunch of gunboats. Of course you didn't need press-gangs.

<!--QuoteBegin-jpj+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jpj)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Granted, there is more pirate content in regards to Age of Sail media... but if one was to look at what two kinds are out there... there is Pirate-themed material and Royal Navy-themed material. Those are the two major types... even within the Pirate-themed media, did Pirates of the Caribbean decide to send Jack Sparrow against the Spanish Navy? No, they put him against the Royal Navy.
I have yet to see an internationally famous Age of Sail saga of novels like Hornblower or Aubrey that focuses on an American or Spaniard. I have yet to see a Hollywood blockbuster or TV miniseries starring an American naval officer.

This is the truth. It is truth because it is fact. It is fact because it is history.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Yes, but PotC is a bad example, because they were portrayed as the incompetent/antagonistic British Navy run by foppish by-the-book officers or short megalomaniacs. Hardly history. And as I said, can't stand Aubrey or Hornblower. I'd watch a film about the American frigates. So long as it wasn't dripping patriotism for modern America. And as long as Mel Gibson isn't in it.
 
Good idea, actually.
Please continue the off-topic heated debate here. And please keep things civil and respectful, please.
I hope you can get this sorted. We don't want any real animosity here, if possible. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":rolleyes:" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" />
 
Actually, I had hoped that there was no need to continue this topic... I'd hate to see a gap form between fellow modders here. I am merely trying to see that my country's history is put into the game correctly alongside other nations and their correct history.

I'm not personally offended... a little flustered about some of the previous claims and statements regarding my country and its naval history... but who doesn't? Its patriotism! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/w00t.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":woot" border="0" alt="w00t.gif" />
 
<!--QuoteBegin-Merciless Mark (Moved from B14A8 Thread)+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Merciless Mark (Moved from B14A8 Thread))</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Comparatively the United States does not have as a rich naval history as the Royal Navy. Now i am in the fortunate position here of being objective, as i am neither American, British, Dutch, Spanish, Portuguese or French for that matter.
But as it was said before, the United States never had a major navy in the age of sail that could compare to the european powers, and only few ships larger than frigates in the 19th century.
The British empire on the other hand, was forged by its navy, without it there would have been no empire to speak of. And naturally Britain were victorious for the most part or else the commonwealth would not have the influence it does today.
And unlike Britain the United States never sought to establish a world empire.(at least not back then).

So... an island nation depending on the sea, a long rich history as a major naval power spanning centuries, massive naval battles and victories such as Trafalgar and the battle of the Nile with massive 1st rate 100+ gun warships, ultimatley crippling both the spanish and french navies.
Is it then really so strange that so much literature and entertainment has been inspired by it?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I completely concur with this, but that was not my original statement. What started this was my movement to give the American ships, crews, and officers a higher quality than the British in this Build Mod. The Americans were once British, so they already had a well founded skill... the only things that prevented the United States from ruling the seas were this:
We did not want to become a world Empire like Britain, France, or Spain.
We did not have the money to build a navy as large as Britain's.
We did not have the time to build a navy as large as Britain's.
We did not have the population to man a navy as large as Britain's.
We did not have any reason to build a navy as large as Britain's... we had no world-wide Empire or far-off colonies.

Because of these reasons, we could not challenge Britain as the best navy in the world because while we had higher quality, morale, and in some cases better commanders and tactics.... they had quantity, depth, expierence, and tradition.

By the time we did start building ships-of-the-line, there were no wars in full swing and the Age of Sail was coming to an end. This sealed everyone to their place in this particular period, and Britain was the ruler of the seas. It would take the USN another hundred years to catch up to Britain in the areas where the USN was lacking. And though Britain will always be known for its legendary navy and tradition of victory (which I commend and draw inspiration from) by the Second World War the United States Navy had surpassed the Royal Navy in most regards. But by then, what did it matter? We were and still are allies!
 
This last post explain almost everything i wanted to point about the USA.....during the Age of Sails, i guess the USA were more occupied with the America than the oceans, so why the necessity of creating a huge and powerfull navy to oppose the other ones, if their attention was focused on land?

This is my point of view....
 
As far as the historical aspects are concerned, I find this discussion quite illuminating actually. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheeky" border="0" alt="icon_mrgreen1.gif" />
 
Or for those who haven't learned anything about their own country in school, like me - we're always being taught stuff about China. I've asked about an option to opt out, but that was met with a less than desirable response <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="xD:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" /> .
 
I didn't learn much about OTHER countries than my own. And I forgot most of that as well. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mybad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":facepalm" border="0" alt="mybad.gif" />
 
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